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File: 1516120189679.png (2.34 MB, 1741x969, 5.PNG)

Regarding the Recent "No Bait" Rule on /ef/ NoonimCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13143Locked

Seems as the other thread was unfortunately locked, so in order to continue this line of dialogue, I'd say a new one is in order to discuss this recent addition of a rule.

My stance is that "bait" is not something easily defined, and that thus far, the primary example, being https://www.ponychan.net/ef/res/55612+50.html#55612 , is not of sufficient quality to actually make any clear cut definitions of what is or is not allowed.
This is, to me, something users will cross without ever realizing it, finding themselves banned, or their threads deleted, for something they do not understand.

I do not believe this is acceptable. Having rules is fine and dandy, you can have as silly rules as you like, but people need to be able to understand what they did wrong. They need to be able to avoid that. Even if I don't necessarily agree with a rule, out of principle, a rule like "No Posts About Griffons" is clearly defined well enough to be avoided.
I, and others, would have only ourselves to blame, were we to break that rule.

A rule like what is now evidently writ as "Moderation will combat blatant low quality trolls,", though was originally phrased as "Blatant attempts at bait are against the rules.", is not clear enough to be avoided. Worse, different administrators will have different opinions on what constitutes "low quality trolls". And as such, something that might be an issue one day might not be an issue later.

This was a major problem back on Ponychan, before the split. It's what made moderation feel much more like a popularity contest, than a just system. It's why so many users became agitated with said system and ultimately left, or eventually formed their own site.

If a solution is absolutely necessary to deal with supposed "trolls" [besides merely encouraging people to use the [-] function], it should be one with a clear definition. Something that can be universally understood. "No politics", for instance. While it might gut a major section of discussion, it at least applies a standard that does not cause people to fear a wrong step out of their control.

thoCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13144



NoonimCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13145

File: 1516122676320.jpg (181.9 KB, 1005x1280, 45f75fb3054108daf507bfd8294302…)

If you really want to talk, you only have to ask, you know.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13146

File: 1516130784426.png (395.58 KB, 900x511, no one expcted.jpg)

Let's call a time out on any further discussions regarding rules for the time being. One mod is having to deal with a massive winter storm at the moment and really should not have to deal with people coming at him from all directions about the problems we could resolve ourselves.

For now, let the dust settle over the latest round of the Ponychan Inquisition. We can have civil discourse without resorting to /b/ grade posting.

NoonimCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13147

I certainly agree with the "resolve ourselves" aspect. It's as simple as clicking [-].
Problem I have is more that something has been done, and it was a bad move.

NoonimCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13149

That's only if they intend to bait. Unfortunately, you cannot read minds. You can claim to tell the difference, but that does not make it so.
Like I said earlier; Plenty of people accused me of baiting.
The reason you knew I wasn't, I'd say, was more due to your experience with me than anything else. It's that you knew me, and my mentality.

It very much annoys me that you decide to bring up these other posts now after fucking ages of asking you for other examples beyond merely the OP. I asked this several times, yet for some reason you only find necessary to bring it up now.
Up until this point, you never established that OP had been claimed as bait for anything other than the OP.
See my posts

>"If it's only going to be used against users what continually flip their position, that's one thing"

>"In the case of this one, the OP is far too tame to really be read as "bait" to me."
>"The only example thus far people're pointing to is the immigration lot, which as mentioned, I don't see as particular /pol/ tier bait. "
>"Then I am sure you understand why I'm not about to accept their supposed detection of "/pol/ bait", especially when your only example thus far is not something that I can see reasonably classified as bait."
>"Because otherwise, I'm left seeing an OP talking in very tame, plain terms about immigration, with the only noteworthy aspect being a term that has been massively popularized due to recent alleged claims of statements from Trump."
>"If you could at least post some clear shit what shows this was the intent, I could understand."
>"In other words, you do not have any case for the primary example being used as a current standard for "bait threads" which are now being banned on /ef/"

Why in the ever living fuck did it take you so god damn long to bring this shit up?
Why couldn't you've brought it up when I kept on fucking asking?
Seriously. It was what caused the decision, wasn't it? You weren't just going by OP, too, right?

NoonimCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13151

In the case of this new information, sure, I'd agree with you as I had stated in my post >>13114
>"If it's only going to be used against users what continually flip their position, that's one thing"

The entire goddamn thread, I was operating on the assumption that it was just about the OP, because that was all that was provided. The only time anything even REMOTELY in the area was from Babs, in >>13113 , who stated,
>"A good example of a low quality troll would be someone with a post history with no sense of decency, or someone whose posts are so atrocious that they contradict their own logic they pass off as "political views". "
Except that, when I mentioned this, again in >>13114
No mention further of this was made.
No mention anywhere else was made. The only established post that was being judged as bait was the OP post.

If you truly weren't "In the mood for dealing" with me, why not just outright say this shit?
It would've literally stopped three hours worth of posts.

NoonimCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13153

File: 1516141458087.png (298.93 KB, 945x827, anna_face_b.png)

Yeah, now, after a rather large chunk of annoyingly pointless conversation.
But, whatever, if you're using the standard suggested by Babs, I don't have much an issue. Where I have issue was, as was initially implied, "bait threads" judged just off the OP.

NoonimCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13155

File: 1516141940376.png (38.82 KB, 436x299, 17.PNG)

Sure, sure, for simple deletion anyway that's understandable. OP's gotta start on a more general-purpose base. Especially since starting with a set position is going to lower your practical use of the thread, once conversation dies out.
Just don't think that "What should be done to stop people from shithole nations with no employable skills from immigrating to the US?" would constitute that.,

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13157

>That's only if they intend to bait. Unfortunately, you cannot read minds

<the only way you can decide something is bait and therefore something the ENTIRE REST OF THE COMMUNITY has decided they don't want in their site, is if the person who is baiting admits that it's baiting

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 13158

seriously why do we give a FUCK what this one douchenozzle is arguing for. everyone else except for the literal nazi anons and graff understands we don't want obvious bait and /pol/-tier racist garbage in our community anymore. and we've been saying so FOR FUCKING YEARS. stop listening to this shithead's dumbass concern-trolling.

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