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File: 1508813208182.png (114.07 KB, 900x945, image.png)

Better Left for Stone and Cold? Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBUCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827310

Discord... Where do I start?

Even though a more powerful villain came along, (Tirek), Discord is still a beloved character and still the favorite villain of many. However, ever since Discord has come back and been reformed, he has been so much more tame a character in his shenanigans. Many would say that it's awesome he's here to stay, but for people like me, who have loved him since day one, it's been a lukewarm experience to see the "New, good Discord." He's still a funny character and damn fun to watch, but is he quite as fun once his evil was all but castrated? I don't think so.

When we first met this whako, he was fun because he was unpredictable and you never really could tell what was up his sleeve; but now, his antics are more tamed and have become more predictable, which can be a bit of a turnoff. It's one of those "what ifs" about the show that makes you think. What if Discord was never given another chance and left in stone? Would he have ever come back? Or would he have found another maneuver out of his prison, with a new tactic to take over Equestria? After all, God knows how long he would have stayed in there if he didn't get out; it took him 1000 years the first time. Would he have concocted another plan that required him to not let his guard down as easily and learn from his arrogance the first time? Making him all the more powerful?

But enough of my text wall, let's discuss it more here
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NostalgiaSchmaltz!jdKt6Dif02Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827322

File: 1508862591739.png (654.74 KB, 734x802, judy21.png)

I didn't notice any real change in his character.

You can only have him flipping out and chaos'ing everything for so long before it becomes repetitive.

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBUCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827328

I can understand the other part, but don't you think he was a bit more fun being on the evil side? Where he could do whatever he wanted and not be held by by the confines of what is acceptable in "pony friendship"?

NostalgiaSchmaltz!jdKt6Dif02Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827330

File: 1508940304514.png (763.56 KB, 670x801, judy191.PNG)

>don't you think he was a bit more fun being on the evil side?

Because I haven't noticed any real change in his character.

The biggest difference between RoH and the rest of the series, is that he makes lots of pop culture references now. That's about it.
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!gEapIYWEa2Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827360

File: 1509005822458.jpg (147.06 KB, 1000x355, diditwork.jpg)

DeLancie is too typecast. An omnipotent being whose only limitation is "being too kooky" is a game breaking character. Discord was better as a statue, because then you couldn't ask "Why didn't he just defeat Sombra/Tirek/Tempest/Chrysalis/etc by snapping?" Instead, they have to jury rig in elaborate handwaving about why he just didn't wanna, or retcon limits into this character. "Yes, I can plunge the entire world into eternal chaos... except that spot over there. Those changelings can easily defeat my powers."

That makes it even worse though, because why didn't the suffering ponies/things band together, form an army around that "ancient" throne, and cart it off to wherever Discord was?

Discord is the kind of character where the less you use him, the better the story gets.

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827457

File: 1509908806294.png (234.25 KB, 618x800, q.jpg)

Cuz they didn't know about the Queen's throne?

You can just say Q is lame without so much analysis.

I don't see how his antics are any different before vs after. In the ep where we see him in the past, he's got houses upside down and ice in the streets. Some dif. Except, when he sets the 6 against each other, that seems more complex and imaginative than anything before or after so, at least his early half-reform days had more thought put into them anyway.

unlikeable ponyCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827462

This is the same issue the elements of harmony run into though, in having an unbeatable force of magic at their disposal; the S3 premier had a massive plothole of "Why didn't they just take the elements with them and nuke sombra?"

Honestly, I do agree with you, and think them coming up with a plotline that nerfs his ability to interact with the "real" world magically would be a good one (Specifically that his chaos powers would end up being bottled up in his dimension, so he would have full access to his powers there, but would be quickly "drained" if he utilized his magic too much outside of it and would end up being banished back into it for a time, ala a Demon in D&D being knocked back into its homeplane).

!gEapIYWEa2Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827464

File: 1509961850614.png (1.17 MB, 1280x720, teeny bit of anachronism.png)


Q isn't always lame though. His lameitude is directly proportional to how much focus he gets in an episode. Just like Discord. Same character, really.

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827507

I thought so too at first but actually Discord is a much better character than Q.

Q never learns, is always mean and pathetic but Discord actually grows and learns.

EquestriaGuy!1DerpyVA.6Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827516

Are we watching the same Q? That guy straight up spent 7 seasons subtly guiding and mentoring Picard, and protecting humanity from the Borg. He knew humans as a species respond better to provocation than if he’d shown up, acted all nice, and no one took him as seriously.

Discord’s best role in FiM was in 401, 402, and Part 1 of Twilght’s kingdom.

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827519

File: 1510805013225.png (17.85 KB, 945x945, Bigmac-shrug-1301110073143.png)

The only reason the Borg came hunting was because Q put the Federation on their radar, and I don't remember him being anywhere during any of the most important Borg episodes. The best Q moment was when Sisko decked him.

I don't really know pony episodes by number and barely by name. I think Discord was at his best in the Season 7 episode where he almost destroys himself to try and be normal for Fluttershy.

Q never put himself in harm's way for anyone. Discord is a much better character.

EquestriaGuy!1DerpyVA.6Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827520

If Q hadn’t introduced the Federation to the Borg, they never would have built up their military capabilities, and sometime in the future the Borg would have conquered them. I bet they also owe their victory against the Dominion due to the advances they made preparing for the Borg.

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827521

File: 1510861289862.jpg (189.62 KB, 955x836, rddefiant.jpeg)

That's highly speculative. The only improvement was the Defiant-class ships and those were cancelled when the Borg threat was reduced which is why only a few had any involvement in the Dominion war.
Anyway it's not important, Q isn't Discord. Discord is my least favorite pony character and I like Discord better than Q.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827522

File: 1510863977432.jpg (36.92 KB, 700x576, Q_junior.jpg)


Q Jr. was provoking and teasing the Borg, but most people choose to totally forget the VOY appearances.

unlikeable ponyCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827527

Q could have sold alot of problems just by dropping like 1/10 of the borg's cubes in the middle of the Dominion's space and let them all fight it out.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827528

File: 1510935148187.jpg (223.33 KB, 1280x1662, forever astone.jpg)

I'm thinking he was in the process of freeing himself, in S04E02 we see he threw out some "plunderseeds" that were supposed to leech the magic from the tree of harmony, but they were prevented by the tree's aura. However, the conflict of that episode was that the tree had weakened in the absence of the elements and so they were able to get to it. I think if the magic had been fully plundered, it would have moved its way back to Discord's statue and freed him, as stealing the magic from the tree for Discord was the original plan of the seeds.

As for what he would have done after freed, I don't think he would have done anything different. He already considers himself all-powerful, no need to get even more powerful. He's a whimsical spirit of chaos who just wants to have fun. He doesn't really care much for conquest, either. Anything more requires foresight, foresight requires order, and the spirit of chaos doesn't *do* order.

His "evil" side was pretty much scheming to not let anyone sour his fun. His "good" side is the power of friendship opening him up to the realization that if his fun is forever at the expense of others then he'll be forever alone, and that was the worse fate than being able to do whatever he wants. Without that realization, he would have just gone back to being an oblivious all-powerful pest for everypony, getting what he wants but ultimately feeling a bit unsatisfied and empty and not knowing why.
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!gEapIYWEa2Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827533

File: 1510964717032.jpg (97.99 KB, 710x540, 421458__safe_screencap_g1_mush…)


Discord scattered the plunder seeds because he wanted to release what's in the box. He emerged from stone a thousand years later, so that in defeating his tests, the Bearers would learn the true meaning of their element. When the plunder vines forced them to return the elements, they would be ready to create their key.

He didn't expect to be freed from stone so soon, but quickly adapted his plans to secretly manipulate things so that the characters would learn about their key even more firmly, that entire season.

Then, when Twilight still had no clue about the value of her element, he deliberately betrayed them to Tirek, knowing Tirek would in turn betray him, because it's Tirek. Once Twilight saw that Discord's "mistake" had cost him everything, when all he really wanted was a friend, she got her key, and opened the box.

And all this for a little piece of rainbow.
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Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827536

File: 1510973223999.png (471.08 KB, 1280x720, Mysterious_chest_S4E02.png)

But the key box didn't exist until after the elements were returned to the Tree.

While not impossible, your betrayal scheme seems very improbable and Discord's emotions seemed pretty genuine. I'm not sure he can act that well.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827537

File: 1510973970842.png (307.95 KB, 1024x474, the_background_mane_6_elements…)

Personally, I think Discord's whole thing with the plunderseeds was a bit of a Discord-like joke he was playing on Luna and Celestia. He literally showered them with their means of defeat, the plunderseeds, while they did nothing to stop him. His intention was that the plunderseeds would quickly sap the tree's energy and turn him back from stone. He'd be like, "Ta dah! Oh, you princesses are a riot, didn't you know that wouldn't work, and you didn't lift a hoof to stop me!"

It didn't turn out that way because, while Discord may be all-powerful, he's still capable of mistakes, which is why he straight up said he didn't account for the tree's aura. It establishes to some extent his foresight is lacking, he doesn't have omniscience, just enough omnipotence to fake it. (Such as when he tried to teleport to Fluttershy's rescue in the season 6 finale and was boggled why it only got him partway there.) So this suggests he probably didn't know about the box.

That said, as far as fan theories go, your theory isn't that much less substantial than mine. It's a bit of a stretch to assume that the plunderseeds would necessarily undo his being turned to stone. From a literary sense, I guess it's reasonable to assert that stealing the source of the magic that turns you to stone means you can turn back, but it's still loose enough of a point you could write around it if you wanted to.

But, it turns out, we do have some proof of that he would be freed if Twilight didn't end up making friends. Of course, I'm talking about Discord's portrayal as taking over on the second return of Twilight Sparkle to the timeline in S05E26 where Starlight Glimmer had prevented the sonic rainboom. And sure enough, Discord's not only free of his stone prison but just goofing around in Equestria, making literal clowns of Celestia and Luna.

Which actually is pretty weird because what's Luna doing back to normal? Perhaps we ended up with another group of ponies being the bearers of the elements? Maybe Discord brought her back from being the mare in the moon just to have an old adversary around to toy with? It's tough to say, it's suggested that basically there's a "Butterfly Effect" to everything glimglam did to meddle.
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Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBUCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827539

Since we are all on the topic of Discord, I would like to bounce an idea off of you all of a character I made that was an inspiration of him, but is totally different:

Havoc, in physical description, is an enormous ram on two legs, with curled horns made of titanium and hooves made of iron. He also carries a magic sledge hammer that helps him in his destructive rampages. While he doesn't need the hammer, he uses it as a tool. He also is able to start tornados, cause crop and plant famine, creates earthquakes; essentally, use nature as a means of destruction as well instead of just using his hammer all the time.

He is not the most articulate villain, but he has one perogative: destroy anything and anyone in his path. He does it mainly for the fun of it, and has lots of fun watching things go up in flames; he terrorizes dragons, griffons, ponies etc. He is mainly fireproof, has a thick hide and fur, and it takes great magic to defeat him.

Havoc is a villain that goes far back before the founding of Equestria, and according to legend, born out of the eruption of the first volcano. To give a scale, he is as old as Discord, and were always aware of each other, but left each other alone for the most part on account that they're both deities. This may sound odd, but it's the same logic of why in the Dragon Ball series that destruction gods leave each other alone: they know they're evenly matched and fighting would be pointless. Of course, if Havoc was provoked enough, he'd still fight Discord, but the efforts would be fruitless.

With all this in mind, do you think Havoc as a character could be compatible with Discord? Be incompatible? Or just two separate forces of nature that wouldn't or shouldn't mingle?
This post was edited by its author on .

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827540

I'm not sure if there is anything that supports the seeds were for the purpose of turning Discord back to flesh. maybe I missed that or something. But he would have had to place them before being turned to stone (in anticipation of that happening) and he clearly didn't think the Sisters could defeat him by the way he teased them for their earnest expressions.
As to Starlight's alternate timelines, Discord being not stone was becauase he turned to flesh in the main timeline, and the 6 were not there to re-stone him. Nightmare Moon was back from the moon and defeated Celestia because she came back in the main timeline, and there were no 6 to stop her. Same thing with Sombra: he returned, and there was no 6 to stop him. These things are perfectly consistent with one exception: why would each of them arise in absence of the others? Perhaps the subtle changes caused by the different ways Starlight's plan was executed in the past each time caused it, or possibly Nightmare Moon defeated Sombra or etc. It's a question mark.
But no, I don't think Discord had any master plan beyond what we see.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827541

File: 1511022261326.png (558.62 KB, 1280x720, Tirek Schmoozes.png)

I think you probably have the right of it that they'd largely avoid eachother because they're too equally matched.

That said, if they were to try to get along, I'd be inclined to believe Discord would find Havoc's one-track mind towards destruction to be a bit pedestrian. Discord has a penchant towards the outright zany. Straight up desolation doesn't show a proper respect to Discord's love of chaos, it's too orderly. For that matter, Havok would probably be annoyed Discord doesn't just level everything.

That said, Havok would probably get along pretty well with Tirek. They're probably cell buddies in Tartarus, and I don't think Celestia and Luna would opt to leave a deity of destruction to run around terrorizing everypony.

True enough, I forgot the stone spell did wear off on its own. And yeah, alternate timelines are pretty rife with plotholes.
This post was edited by its author on .

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBUCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827546

So, moving away from the obvious settlement that Discord and Havok would only lead to a stalemate between an unstoppable force and an immovable object, let's move onto Tirek:

You claim Tirek and Havok would get along well, even being cell mates, but if they came to blows, who do you believe would come out on top? Of course, I have bias and say Havok ultimately would on account that Tirek relies on the magic of other to gain power, whereas Havok is an autonomous deity that can control nature at his will.
But, I wanna hear your opinion
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AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827548

File: 1511062061494.png (615.9 KB, 1111x504, What Tirek Does WIth His Time …)

I'd say it depends on when Tirek decides to betray him. If Tirek has accumulated power enough to overcome Havok, he wins. Otherwise, Havok wins.

But an interesting possibility that Tirek might decide not to betray Havok on the grounds that they both seem to be into leveling Equestria for the lawls. There would seem to be no conflict of interest there!

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBUCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827551

I suppose; it would make sense that if Tirek ever wanted a chance to defeat a deity, he'd have to gain their trust first, then betray them at the last minute. He did that with Discord, and could do the same to Havok.

But here's my other question: since they're both into leveling Equestria, what do you suggest for me to do to distinguish Havok from Tirek? Personality? More unique abilities? Both?

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827554

It's your character and choosing how to write him is part of the fun. But, if it were mine, I think the top order of the character is giving him a more interesting goal than just leveling everything.

The trouble with Tirek is he's a bit of a dead-end character: he gets out of Tartarus, and all he wants to do is cause trouble. Who needs him? Back to Tartarus he goes.

Havok would seem to be in a similar boat. Look at me, I'm a volcano-spawned destructo-beast! He doesn't really belong in Equestria, he belongs as a kaiju in a Godzilla movie. Give this goat some depth, even if it comes at a cost of his power level, because at the moment he's just a garden variety Omnicidalmaniac and the story doesn't have much use for those guys except to put them away their place.

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBUCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827559

File: 1511127884119.png (55.22 KB, 250x250, image.png)

Well, there is another villain I have that I want to bounce off of you that has not depth, or at least more complexity surrounding him: Hailstone.

To sum up his character, it's a lot like this:
Why is Canterlot cursed to always worry about the Frozen North overtaking it without the crystal heart? What is the origin of the winter-driven Windigows? At what point was it left up to the entire Pegasi race to control weather?
This all could be explained by Hypothermia/Hailstone, who was peaceful for a time and was trusted by princesses Celestia and Luna to control the start and end of winter. However, due to internal reasons (I'll give more details in the thread) Hypo/Hail was driven mad and attempted to conquere Equestria by burying it in ice and snow. Of course, the princesses managed to destroy him, but not without leaving 2 legacies: the creation of the Windigows and a curse over the crystal empire to forever face the possible threat of being froze to death.
It's why the Pegasi were left with the responsibility of controlling winter as well as the other seasons; it's why Rainbow Dash couldn't control the winter clouds in "The Crystalling" parts 1 and 2.

So, the main motivation of Hailstone would be to mainly make Equestria his kingdom of ice and snow, not only freezing ponies but morphing them into his image.
However, I added in a possible reason he was driven mad:

Hailstone wanted an heir, or, at least a child to give some of his power to if he ever were to die, despite himself being an Alicorn (the first name Alicorn), who can live for thousands of years. So, he pulled a similar act that Zeus did with Hercules mother: it snowed on the mare of his choice, and she became pregnant with: Snowdrop. This wouldn't be terribly far fetched, given that Snowdrop's father is unknown and never really mentioned.

Anyone who remembers the Snowdrop video would that Snowdrop invented the snowflake, despite being blind. Snowdrop's accomplishment made Hailstone proud, and because Snowdrop was greatly recognized for her creation, Hailstone hopes the princesses would grant Snowdrop immortality, so that his daughter could work along side him forever. However.. When Snowdrop died, not only was Hailstone grief stricken, he felt the princesses cheated his beloved out of something she deserved. He was so enraged, he vowed revenge against them. But since his first form was destroyed, he left his legacy of revenge in the form of the Windigows and the Crystal Empire's problems in the Frozen North.

Decided to just call him Hailstone because Hyporthermia was too edgy.
Tell me your thoughts on this idea

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827560

File: 1511146940890.jpg (81.08 KB, 500x400, 3443120112_a057975df2.jpg)

Yep, much more fleshed out, there's a character that has gone places.

I will say that he's phrased as a bit of a legend or an allegory. Which is to say, his story is done, you've got him down in pony lore from start to end. I guess you could bring him back like the Pillars, but by and large his role in a story is going to be in legendary lore of Equestria.

Which does beg a certain question: why is he remembered? Often, when it comes to legends of yore (like the Pillars) there's some kind of moral involved. It's something you pass down from generation to generation to try to keep the kids on the straight and narrow. Legends perpetuate because they fulfill a purpose. So what's Hailstone's moral?

Maybe drop the idea that Hailstone is an alicorn. I can see it getting in the way for a few reasons:

1. Alicorns represent not only an ascension from incredible achievement, but also a physical unification of all three pony races. Thus, his divinity preceding a fall puts him in paradox with Hearth Warming Eve suggesting the three races of ponies were fighting and this brings the windigos, because apparently alicorns were already around and thus the races were united.

2. You've said it yourself, his mortality would explain why he was afraid his greatness would be lost without an heir. (Also, there are other ways to introduce Snowdrop without immaculate conception or even his being his daughter.)

3. Least importantly, alicorn OC is automatic Mary Sue territory, and an ancient male version is Marty Sue squared, and it's more trouble than it's worth from a story solidarity standpoint even if you don't give a damn about what other people think. Unicorns have plenty of power, you really don't need the wings.

But the point is to try to give his legendary ancient pony story a moral. Perhaps about being willing to accept impermanence? The latter would be nice because, after all, what is a snowflake if not a beautiful thing that must melt?
This post was edited by its author on .

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBUCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827563

I was actually planning on bringing back Hailstone with the inadvertent help of Sombra. Because Hailstone cursed the Crystal Empire, his magic would be most prominent in the Frozen North, and because Sombra was imprisoned there, Sombra's magic could have sparked it more. Remember when Sombra's horn was blown off after he was destroyed? That horn would serve as the final spark needed to bring Hailstone back from the dead, morphing him into an even more evil form, already combining with his hunger for revenge.

I guess you're right about snowdrop too; maybe Hailstone just decided that he saw the most potential in Snowdrop as his heir, so he granted her the opportunity to prove her greatness by giving her the snow pellet she relieved to create the snowflake. Hailstone would have still expected the princesses to grant Snowdrop a longer life like him, but when they failed to do so, he would still feel cheated and embittered. As a final cry out against his mortality, he decided to try and bury Equestria in snow and ice, which still led to his ultimate demise, but not without him leaving a permanent curse behind.

Also, your idea for a moral does make
sense: accepting your own mortality. Nothing lasts forever. Hailstone did realize he wasn't going to live forever, so he longed for an heir to carry on his work and greatness; when he was denied that, he lashed out in hatred toward Luna and Celestia by punishing all of Equestria, as well as the Crystal Empire.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827565

File: 1511220413883.jpg (Spoiler Image, 184.56 KB, 815x847, 861996__safe_twilight+sparkle_…)

Good stuff, I think he's pretty well fleshed out now.

I will say that Sombre's horn and overall character was expended in the extended canon of the comics, but it's your decision if you want to have your fanon impacted by that.

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBUCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827566

So here's my next question for your opinion:
Hailstone and Sombra now have a connection, both through Sombra being imprisoned in Hailstone's territory and Hailstone being sparked back to life through Sombra's Magic:
Do you think that these two would ever be compatible, or do you think they would be irrelevant to one another just as Havok and Discord would incompatible?

In other words, just as Havok and Discord are deities, Hailstone and Sombra were kings by their own rights, but do you feel they would ever "get along"

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827567


First, which version of Sombra? Comic version, Sombra's motivation (during his lowest point) is driven by his belief in destiny. He doesn't even hate Celestia and Luna so much as find them in opposition to his fate. And then he got reformed, so... As such, he doesn't really have anything in common with Hailstone. Current show canon, Sombra seems to be mostly driven by his colossal ego leading him to fall to the dark side of magic, he's more Sith Lord than pony. Hailstone is also driven by ego, so there's a common tangent.

The those colossal egos could go both ways in terms of compatibility. Maybe they'll end up rivals for whose colossal ego is the best, so will largely be at loggerheads. Maybe they'll see enough of themselves in each other that they're kindred spirits.

I'd say there's just enough in common for a potential villain team up, not the least of which being the coldness/Windigo tie in. They might realize that they have a potential to fuel eachother's power, and ambition might bridge the gap between their egos.
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Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBUCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827568

I was referring to the current show canon version of Sombra.
So, let's say for the sake of argument that Hailstone and Sombra both do team up. Now, let's imagine the following hypothetical situation:

Hailstone + Sombra vs. Havok vs. Discord.

We've already established that Discord and Havok would not be compatible, but let's set aside everything, and assume they have a tag team match up against each other. It's a bit of a stretch, given that Havok and Discord might only try to do their own thing in their fighting style (or Discord would most likely not take the entire thing very seriously). So a better question might be: who would win?
Havok vs. Hailstone
Discord vs. Sombra
Havok vs. Sombra
Discord vs. Hailstone

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm loving the conversation we're having here
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AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827570

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Well, if by "win," we're talking who comes out in a pure throw down, I'm kind of inclined to believe Discord is OP for a stand up fight.

The elements of harmony can petrify him, Tirek managed to neuter him in the Season 4 finale, and Chrysalis managed to keep him from using his powers with her anti-magic throne. However, when you don't have an element of harmony (Harmony being the opposite of Chaos), anti-magic artifacts, or a magic siphoning method around, then Discord's overabundance of chaos magic can pretty much defeat any opponent with a literal snap of the finger (and he might skip that if he's not feeling theatrical).

That said, if I were to lay out a rough estimate on who's going to win in a throwdown (through whatever means they have, with "win" defined as physical submission of the opponent), my theory is: Discord > Sombra > Havok > Hailstone.

Discord is top of the heap for reasons I mention above. Sombra is second place because he apparently had power enough to oppress an entire pony empire, a fairly mean trick for a magical race. Havok is third place because he's certainly got force but not necessarily oppress-an-entire-crystal-empire force. Hailstone's lore doesn't really establish he's proven his chops in a fight, though he's certainly magical.

However, I think it's barking up the wrong tree to assume Equestria runs on Dragonball Z rules. It's not really about power level. It would really seem to run on straight up best feels rules. 'twas friendship that tamed the Discord. 'twas love that obliterated Sombra, expelled the changlings from Canterlot, and later reformed them. Twilight had the power of four alicorns aimed at Tirek, but in the end this proved insignificant to a harmony upgrade. Simply fighting never seems to resolve conflicts in Equestria.
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Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBUCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36827572

I can agree that ultimately Discord would still win in the situation, but since I know Havok better, I think the equation would go more like this:
Discord = Havok > Sombra > Hailstone.

Why do I say this?
Well, I'll give credit that Sombra did manage to oppress an empire, but here's the thing I see: the way Sombra combats against others is by harnessing the fears of others and renders them weak; Havok is a deity of DESTRUCTION. He could level an entire empire as if it were a house of cards. He virtually has NO fear. Take away fear, and Havok could smash Sombra's skull all the easier. And yeah, I'll give you that while I did spend more time developing Hailstone's backstory and character, I forgot to add a mean pair of jaws on him; I neglected to give Havok character, and I neglected to elaborate on Hailstone's power other than "he controls winter."

I still put Discord as equal to Havok because they're two entities that can never be destroyed; Discord represents a neutral force that neither creates nor destroys, but simply alters reality and is a state of condition; the opposite of order. Havok represents the other extreme from creation: destruction. It's a process that can never be stopped, for destruction is inevitable for all things; buildings deteriorate, flowers wilt, plates eventually crack, etc.

Discord could only CONTAIN Havok, maybe by putting him in a space pocket where he would forever try to break out but never succeed, but he'd never truly get rid of him. Havok trying to beat Discord would be like punching air; nothing would come of it because no matter what Havok would do to hurt Discord, Discord would simply absorb it all like silly putty and come out unscathed. As I stated before: the unstoppable force (Havok) meets the immovable object (Discord).

Of course, I just stated how Discord would ultimately still win though: Havok can only go Hulk on everything, where as Discord can actually manipulate reality and control space and time.
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His emotions seemed pretty genuine, but his betrayal sure didn't. "Oh yes, the only thing stopping me from the world is those pesky ponies, I'm totally on your side, Tirek, yup. Look how evil I am! Oh woe is me, how could I have expected you would betray me. Now the only magic that could possibly save me is friendship!"

And who's to say Discord didn't know about the box? Maybe he's grown a Tree of Harmony before, and knows what their fruit can do when unlocked! Maybe his piece of rainbow got imprisoned to produce the tree, and knew he needed ponies to let it out.

Anyway, it's just a fun headcanon of mine. All of Discord's "evil" machinations just resulted in the ponies learning lessons and strengthening their friendships, so maybe he... meant that to happen?

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