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File: 1479369135571.png (265.27 KB, 1000x982, holysqueak.png)

Princess Celestia had 1000 years... !gEapIYWEa2Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822908

The reason for the bitterness in Princess Luna's heart was because ponies slept through and shunned the night. Princess Celestia wrote the history book, so she knew this was true. She had the motive, and the opportunity, and all the time in the world. She didn't want to lose her sister again. To prevent that tragedy from happening, she needed there to be ponies who did not shun the night, and Princess Celestia had 1000 years to work with...

Princess Celestia created the bat ponies.

ToothlessCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822909

File: 1479369690657.jpg (97.5 KB, 1024x576, cookie_train_ad___pinkie_got_b…)

That would suck. I mean, your entire race existing because someone wanted to appease their sister who was throwing a temper tantrum seems kind of lame.

!gEapIYWEa2Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822910

File: 1479371540769.png (114.79 KB, 528x498, midnight_blossom_by_pepooni-d9…)

>>36822909

Well that's a pessimistic way to look at it. You don't think Princess Luna had a reason to be upset? Princess Celestia wasn't doing it to appease her sister, and in fact she knew nothing could appease her since Luna was completely batshit insane. She was doing it because Princess Luna was right, and Princess Celestia learned (belatedly) that ponies were an important part of the night as much as the day.

ToothlessCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822911

File: 1479372438867.jpg (155.71 KB, 1024x576, a_beautiful_day_in_equestria_1…)

>>36822910
I mean it's less pessimistic and more when you pull the whole situation out of context it would look rather arrogant of the two to believe they are important enough for something like this. How much respect Celestia and Luna have from races that aren't ponies is kind of vague. Dragons or at least some of them don't seem to hold any respect for her it's not a universal fact that Celestia and Luna are seen as these highly important figures. So that a race of ponies that were entirely created for the sake of this random leader seems kind of arrogant in the eyes of those who don't hold those two in respect, that they deserve love enough to do something like that might not go over well or be seen as a good thing among those who don't hold respect for the sisters.

There is also the matter of the idea that Luna is so unlovable by the ponies that a whole new set of ponies would have to be made for her to be loved and respected is also rather sad. That Celestia had so little faith in her own country to love her sister that she had to make new ones to do it for them. Or that how poorly Celestis viewed her sister that unless a race of nocturnal creatures were created, she would not feel loved is kind of petty and says how little faith she has in her sister to grow as a pony.

This is one of those ideas that is sweet and cute in a contained situation, but when pulled into the big picture doesn't go over quite as well.

!gEapIYWEa2Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822912

File: 1479374592257.png (911.02 KB, 1280x1428, welcome home, princess luna.pn…)

>>36822911

Well, not every creator has to be perfect, for them to have a genuinely good idea. Why can't some ordinary mare create a new race of ponies? Because she ain't got 1000 years to mess with pony genetics, and a whole kingdom under her hoof! But there's no moral imperative that says creating bat ponies is a bad thing, no matter what reason you're doing it for.

I get the impression that Princess Luna would have the sort of reaction as when your awkward older sibling gets you a weird birthday gift because they love you so much.

I also agree that the dragons would think that it was so arrogant to presume that a weak little pony like her could do great things. But dragons are jerks. So who cares what they think?

ToothlessCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822913

File: 1479377391613.jpg (112.54 KB, 894x894, somewhere____x4_by_petirep-d4f…)

>>36822912
Morality has nothing to do with it. It's simply a matter of what it says about the leadership and how they view themselves and those around them. Actual intent and what people read from an action can be entirely different. And while it might be sweet and kind to those involved, outside parties might infer something else entirely to the creation of a race who lives in the night. Equestrian interaction with outside kingdoms has been done minimally, and the situation several centuries ago is unknown. Equestria could have enemies and be at war, and the creation of bat ponies might appear to be the idea of making night soldiers who fight best at night. What if the dragons see the ponies gaining such powers as to create a whole new race of their as enough of a threat to actively attack Equestrian towns and villages.

Then there are the problems it might create within Equestria and how they would be viewed in the social hierarchy. If created soon after the events of NMM, I would imagine that it would not go over so well and the race would be shunned for being made to appease a traitor to the throne. If made after the events are but history or even known only as an old mare's tale, it would seem sort of weird and random with not much context to why Celestia would make them at all for ponies outside the know.

There is also the manner of the feelings of the created bat ponies themselves, but I won't touch too much on that as a lot of that comes down to context of how they are made and if it's a willing process of being made into one from a normal pony or if it's the birth of a whole new race entirely from scratch.

The creation of a whole race goes beyond just between the two sisters. It affects those both within and outside Equestria borders and could easily be shunned or looked down upon in a cruel manner if the situation is not handled with care. A lot of this comes into the manner of how exactly Celestia would go about creating bat ponies and how their introduction into society would be handled. And I guess if you want to go back to the pessimistic remark, most of how I see it playing out ends up with them being shunned heavily by society. I imagine tales of vamp-ponies stemming from their existence and needing to hide away in secret.

!gEapIYWEa2Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822914

File: 1479380441208.png (59.29 KB, 418x456, cloud cover.png)

>>36822913

Equestria was at war for one afternoon in Appleoosa, and maybe a couple of hours with Yakyakistan, in both cases was not the aggressor. It is not a warlike nation.

> If created soon after the events of NMM


Thus the reason that having 1000 years to work with is key to the success of Celestia's project.

> Actual intent and what people read from an action can be entirely different.


I suppose you could consider not wanting to drive your sister insane a selfish sort of intent, in a moral sense. But if people see it as benevolent, then what's the harm?

> I imagine tales of vamp-ponies stemming from their existence and needing to hide away in secret.


Or maybe they just sleep during the day. Not everything has to be crapsack edgedark y'know.

> if it's a willing process of being made into one from a normal pony or if it's the birth of a whole new race entirely from scratch.


Both, I imagine. You start by changing normal ponies, and their children are of the different kind.

ToothlessCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822916

File: 1479409804608.png (667.83 KB, 1024x576, a_beautiful_day_in_equestria_1…)

>>36822914
>It is not a warlike nation.
That does not mean warlike nations do not exist. Plus the state of Equestria centuries ago might not be the same as it is now.

>I suppose you could consider not wanting to drive your sister insane a selfish sort of intent, in a moral sense. But if people see it as benevolent, then what's the harm?

The issue there being that NMM and Luna at some point in time become a Mare's tale. The truth of the situation is unknown to general public. So what exactly is the benevolent intent going on according to the public? When she has this process done is she handing out "Oh by the way, I have a sister who needs these special kind of ponies to love her despite her currently being trapped in the moon until the thousandth summer sun festival" fliers? Again it's not a matter of morality, it's how actions are interpreted based on the knowledge they have of the situation. And of the show makes it out to be that Luna isn't some sort of common knowledge to the public.

>Or maybe they just sleep during the day. Not everything has to be crapsack edgedark y'know.

And Zecora lived in the Everfree Forest away from ponies. That didn't stop ponies from assuming she wasn't some evil enchantress when she did run across ponies. Not hard to believe the possibility that rumors would spread about some pony that looks like a bat turning sour and making them out to be some sort of monster. And even if they are commonly known to exist, I don't find it hard to believe that these sort of rumors might pop up anyways.

>Both, I imagine. You start by changing normal ponies, and their children are of the different kind.

That still brings into the question of how it's done. How Celestia gets volunteers. What type of ponies accept this sort of treatment. The success rate. How the process affects the pony. And if the process is voluntary, why not just train normal everyday ponies to live nocturnally? Wouldn't that be much easier and safer while yielding basically the same results? What would be the exact advantage to being a bat pony over a pegasus or an earth pony?

To cut to the chase, I actually like the idea that Celestia created the bat ponies. The reason I bring these questions up is because how these events play out in Equestrian history could be rather interesting when you bring up possible social issues. If you just write off all the social issues as "Celestia is benevolent and perfect and no pony asks questions" it does this kind of head-canon injustice.

!Glaive9GkoCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822934

File: 1479757100493.jpg (116.41 KB, 869x960, Your argument is invalid.jpg)

The most recent Nightmare Night ep shows that ponies are perfectly capable of flying with wing covers, and it wouldn't surprise me if contact lenses were a thing. So, bat ponies are still not entirely canon.

And on the topic of Luna, I've been wondering what her big deal was. Like, she got jealous because ponies just slept through the night, but modern Luna seems perfectly content with her whole guardian of your dreams shtick. Did she just not know she could do that before, or did Celestia just show her her place?

Clarity!EGL9GiOd9kCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822935

File: 1479798847251.jpg (43.64 KB, 640x374, dash462.jpg)

I renounce the existence of bat ponies. Those were just Nightmare Night costumes!

Unlikeable PonyCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822943

File: 1479872205785.jpg (44.81 KB, 343x499, 51aFkUyq+PL._SX341_BO1,204,203…)

>>36822935
But... the book!

Clarity!EGL9GiOd9kCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822946

File: 1479885208275.gif (548.44 KB, 402x370, dash289.gif)

>>36822943
Not canon!

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822957

File: 1480109752701.png (117.86 KB, 906x882, sad.png)

>>36822935
Even worse shithead than the shameful Blood Libels.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822958

File: 1480109915082.jpg (55.72 KB, 508x603, 1.JPG)

>>36822935

Both Lauren Faust and that other Larson guy testified that Batpoinies are a separate race.

And they DON'T DRINK BLOOD!

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822959

File: 1480110027433.png (1.49 MB, 3800x3100, veterans_of_the_old_guard_by_e…)

Unlikeable PonyCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822961

File: 1480133237124.png (275.07 KB, 717x1024, large.png)

>>36822946
ITS DOUBLE CANON!

>>36822958
batpone eat only mango

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36822964

File: 1480146320998.gif (195.2 KB, 685x400, bonlyra24.gif)

>>36822958
Neither are involved with the show anymore and the costumed guards never appeared again - nor any "real" bat ponies!

>>36822961
Such lies!
This post was edited by its author on .

MacGay !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36823002

>>36822934
They didn't think the canon through.

!gEapIYWEa2Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36823003

File: 1480577829189.png (2.23 MB, 2880x1200, night guard.png)

>>36822916

Those are all very fascinating ideas. I wouldn't say creating bat ponies is entirely a good idea, but I hesitate to immediately condemn it. I wouldn't be too upset to learn that my race was created out of Princess Celestia's love for her sister, at least.

>>36822964

>someone creates something

>someone else expands on those ideas
>therefore the original ideas are not canon

I don't think you understand how canon works.

>>36822934

I could honestly care less if bat ponies are canon, but not much less. This is more about >implying >implications. If there's an episode where Luna's guards say "Oh no this is totally just a costume" and Celestia's guard says "yeah, and our armor is enchanted to turn our hair all the same color and also make us all stallions" it won't make this idea any less awesome.

Also, Luna's real problem was being all alone, so once she had some night friends, she stopped feeling so desperate to gain literally everypony's adoration. Or something.

ToothlessCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36823004

File: 1480579876691.jpg (140.79 KB, 894x894, somewhere____38___they_leave_b…)

>>36823003
>Those are all very fascinating ideas. I wouldn't say creating bat ponies is entirely a good idea, but I hesitate to immediately condemn it. I wouldn't be too upset to learn that my race was created out of Princess Celestia's love for her sister, at least.
It's one of those weird things where a lot of it comes down to the history of the race. Which would need to be largely fleshed out in some sort of fanon.

The view I'm taking most of my ideas about bat ponies from is The Story of Twilight Glow where they are simply creatures of the night that are normal ponies turned into bat ponies throughout history. Rumors and myths of vampire ponies and such that more or less have some truth to them. They start to make themselves known with the return of the princess of the night. Granted the canon and this fanon split really fast so the two aren't much to compare, but still, it's fun to look at the ideas on history leading up to it.
This post was edited by its author on .

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36824478

>>36822908
Honest to god, I really hope this fanmade dung will never be made canon.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36824577

>>36824478
Honestly, this.
>Everyone keeps drawing them with fangs even though Luna's guards canonically don't have any in the show
>bloodsucking and endless "kek they worship mangoes" memes everywhere
Not to mention that the idea that Luna's guards are normal pegasi simply wearing enchanted armor is strengthened by the fact that Rainbow Dash had batwings while she was wearing their armor.

And one more thing: What kind of message would Hasbro send out if they were to make everything the fandom has made up about Luna's guards canon?
A small nod to the fans when it comes to how they imagined the background ponies are like is one thing. But to create an entire race exactly like how the fandom envisioned them to be like?

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36826338

File: 1504930861803.png (1.11 MB, 3028x3339, mango dash.png)

>>36824577

I'd love to read a fic about how Rainbew had to turn into a bat pony out of loyalty to the something.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36826343

File: 1504971898571.jpg (55.72 KB, 508x603, 1.JPG)

word of god, bitches

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36826355

File: 1504982344484.png (192.69 KB, 531x526, luna22.png)

>>36826343
God is dead.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36826359

File: 1504990992169.jpg (55.47 KB, 852x480, 1b4e6e.jpg)

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36826584

>>36826343
The word of god means nothing when your world is run by heretics.

Bollox!60EJwbmzEsCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36826627

File: 1506661574094.jpg (10.45 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg)

>>36826359

FROM EVIL

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36826636

File: 1506694858770.jpg (243.09 KB, 1000x935, 18130__suggestive_artist-colon…)

>>36826359
"Must we not ourselves become gods simply to be worthy of it?"

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36826785

File: 1507182907340.png (246.86 KB, 930x1145, tumblr_owo470IYPk1se4prto2_128…)

>>36822916

OP's image seems to indicate that the source of batpone wasn't exactly public knowledge. celestia is pretty good at keeping secrets after all. perhaps she just... "discovered" bat ponies, and celestia simply "doesn't know" how they came to be.

Nother NonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36830630

File: 1563143774828.png (1.6 MB, 800x1091, Celestia_Imperatrix.png)

>>36822914
Ponies not a warlike race? They may not be aggressors, but they sure know how to make war. Look at what happened when Glimglam fucked with the past. In one resulting alternate reality, all of Equestria went on a WWII total-mobilization footing to battle Sombra's zombie soldiers; in another, the ponies fell back into the jungle to take up guerrilla warfare against the changeling hordes. Twilight immediately thought about "epic pony wars" as an explanation for the beat-up appearance of her future self. What about the fierce battle in the streets of Canterlot between the Mane Six and the changelings under Chrysalis? What about the epic battle with lasers and plasma balls between Tirek and Twilight?

>>36822911
Why don't the dragons, griffins, et al. worship and revere Celestia? Because they're pig-headed, self-obsesssed, and stupid. If they had any smarts they would realize that the survival of all life on the planet depends on Celestia's raising the sun.
This post was edited by its author on .

!gEapIYWEa2Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36830631

File: 1563345883100.png (1.84 MB, 1920x1080, 5_Luna_Grabs_Cloudy.png)

>>36830630

I didn't say they weren't a warlike race. I said Equestria is not a warlike nation. Obviously when Sombra starts conquering them, Equestria turned into a warlike nation real fast.

Anyway, since bat ponies are a thing that exists, whatever the circumstances of their creation, it wasn't a situation where it would be seen as an act of aggression by warring nations. I'm just saying that it seems much more compelling that Princess Celestia created them, which goes against most people's assumption that they were Luna's vampiric thralls or something. But that means Princess Celestia created them, making their history a lot sunnier, and her history a lot darker.

Or maybe they're just pegasi in bat costumes.

> What about the fierce battle in the streets of Canterlot between the Mane Six and the changelings under Chrysalis?


The one where the city got sacked and the main 6 got easily captured like little baby ponies who needed their bottle and blankie?

> If they had any smarts they would realize that the survival of all life on the planet depends on Celestia's raising the sun.


Teeechnically that head canon was denied in the Nightmare Takeover timeline, when Equestria was alive and well despite having been plunged into eternal night without a sun for many years, thanks to the grace and power of Nightmare Moon.

But yeah, either the other races are dumb for not recognizing that ponies basically are the ecosystem, or there's some weird non-Euclidean dimensional shenanigans that make the sun rise differently in nations outside Equestria.

Nother NonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36830633

File: 1563379898379.png (616.54 KB, 900x1227, nightmare_luna.png)

>>36830631
>Equestria was alive and well despite having been plunged into eternal night without a sun for many years

We don't know for how many years, or how much longer they could have kept it up. They may have been keeping the planet warm with dragons and feeding them fossil fuel (i.e., gemstones). When they run out of sapphires and rubies, the Big Freeze descends. The jury is out on this one.

!gEapIYWEa2Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 36830634

File: 1563382645707.png (1.1 MB, 1029x1029, thelfie.png)

>>36830633

Yeah, and the sun might actually just be a big shiny cheese wheel. It really doesn't matter if your headcanon is "denied" or "confirmed" you can still speculate about your post-ponypocaliptic fantasy all you like. You're your only judge, jury, and executioner. I was just being a pest.


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