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File: 1526654705767.webm (1.39 MB, 1280x720, AR action.webm)

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 42043000[Last 50 Posts]

/k/ General

The go to place for the discussion of weapons.

#Cyclic

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>>42068029
...Did we just come to some conclusions?

I cant do anything with that but agree haha.

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>>42068030
that seems to be the case, yes

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>>42068031
It was bound to happen at some point I guess.

I'm half tempted to bring up background checks just to keep the convo going haha.

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>>42068032
heres what i will say about background checks and ill leave it at that

im okay with people having to fill out the 4473 and do the NICS background check

it's pretty much the gun law that doesnt annoy me

that being said, if it were repealed i wouldnt care and i certainty wouldnt go out of my way to have them bring it back

you find it to be effective but i dont because we havent had background checks all through americas history

i mean, it wasnt uncommon to buy a machine gun through the mail no questions asked

thats where i stand

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>>42068033
And i think if you are going to pass a law that says "X person in society is prohibited from owning a firearm" and you can enforce that law at the point of sale, you should, or you shouldn't prohibit anyone in the first place.

Its a rare law that doesn't need to be retroactively enforced, and doesn't infringe on rights, because your criminal history is public knowledge in the first place.

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>>42068035
well thats another a lot of people dont know

the person selling the firearms at the gun store can deny literally anyone they want

they dont have to sell anyone a gun if they dont want

if they feel you're unfit to own gun they can deny you

some will say "but thats infringing their rights though!"

nope, it's their property and nobody has the right to someone elses property or services

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>>42068036
This is true!

And if some d-bag is denying people because of frivolous reasons, so be it, they wont be in business long enough for it to matter.

Edit:
Kinda funny that the people who want to force the gay wedding cake issue dont see the implication it would have on this.
This post was edited by its author on .

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>>42068038
they will never see it

i think a lot of the time some think gun store clerks just wanna sell guns to everyone

well, they also pay close attention to how you behave

like if they see you're acting all shady

there's a pretty good chance they will say "i am sorry i cant sell this to you".

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>>42068039
Some are sure better than others.

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>>42068041
oh certainly

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>>42068042
Honestly, one of my biggest critiques of the firearms industry is the lack of self reflection and self regulation at times.

The risk of a free society.

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>>42068044
i can agree with that

some of them seem like they dont know what they're doing

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>>42068045
Add into that random confusing laws that make no sense, and the resentment it causes.

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>>42068047
fucking exactly lol

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>>42068048
Its just another way to divide us.

And it sells.

There is a lot of money to be made in gun control, on both sides.

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>>42068056
all the more reason for me to oppose gun control

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>>42068059
Make your check payable to the NRA!

Be sure to give them plenty of personal information to sell!

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>>42068061
funny enough i dont entirely support the NRA

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>>42068064
You want to know whats reaaaaaly funny?

I'm REQUIRED by the state to be a member... so while all the politicians are droning on about the evil horrible NRA and their support of using babies as sporting clays... im thinking, yeah, and you fucks forced me to join.

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>>42068065
yeah see i dont support or agree with that

i gotta tell you, man

your state has some really WEIRD laws

a lost pony !piNKiEPie.Country code: ponies-derpy.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42068068

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>>42067981
Well that is congruent with their plan to make sure only criminals have guns.

>>42068065
I was a member in the 90s before i actually listened to their rhetoric, then i joined a gun club in the Garand program when i cuda had one for $250.


>>42068067
Hey you guys noticed its pages n pages of trixie n starlite right?

Im just sayin.

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>>42068067
It's so i can qualify people for their carry permits. I need to be an "NRA certified instructor".

CT is the same, and im pretty sure so is Mass, both require an NRA certified course.

Funny, these states that are losing their rights, they always seem to pass laws requiring you to give money to the NRA.

Funny these states that ban AR15s have major firearms manufactures HQ'ed in them.

Funny Springfield gave money to a campaign to ban AR15's in IL, then when they were found out they went "lol guiez! JK!" and built the Saint.

Funny shit.

I honestly think the fact that the NRA flat out refuses to give RI any support is why we still have most of our rights.

I cant prove any of this is related, but, it looks pretty bad on paper haha.
This post was edited by its author on .

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>>42068068
well i mean barely anyone else posts ITT

so it makes sense

also her name is spelled "starlight"

>>42068069
it's just that to me, the NRA needs to stay its own private entity

i dont care if they lobby

but stay out of laws
This post was edited by its author on .

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>>42068070
It muddies the water for sure.
Alright, good convo as always.
I've got to get to bed though.
G'night bud!

>>42068068
Makes sense.

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>>42068072
g'night! rest well!

NoonimCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42068100

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>>42068069
That's because the NRA is a shit organization that's sold out gunowners for ages.
Fuck 'em and their "compromises".

GOA > ShitRA.

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2oCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42068105

File: 1542475178682.jpg (63.28 KB, 358x691, qtpie.jpg)

If it has no pitting inside of the bore like when I sold it, I'm buying my Enfield Mk 1 no. 4 back from my friend soon and I'll never let it go again.

NoonimCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42068132

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Recently saw a video of someone shooting a MAC 10 with one of these cloth straps on the front. Do they count as a grip? Would it end up making the ATF start knocking?
Seems like kind of a cool idea, if not really that stable or helpful necessarily.

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>>42068132
You can put a sling on a pistol, so i dont see why you couldnt.

Generally its 2 fingers wrapping around a solid object that makes for a vertical forgrip. This isn't legal advice, just what I've gathered. Its why a "hand-stop" is okay, because you cant really wrap your hand around it.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqICountry code: ponies-glimglam.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42068297

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Wtf did I just read? This is like saying racing stripes makes your car go faster.
This post was edited by its author on .

☲ Prince Ember Storm!MSNowBALLkCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42068299

>>42068297
How can people be this stupid

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>>42068299
i dont even know, dude

its hard to believe people voted for this guy

still not as funny as this though Heat Seeking Bullets

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>>42068297
I been saying, they need to ban red cars because they are the ones that speed.

Did you see this?
Fake News on School Shootings
I remember when that NPR article came out, they were talking about it on the radio station, and i remember FB labeling it as spam.

>>42068299
TV?

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>>42068302
it's just there is no way people can believe this guy

my cats litter box likely has more intelligence than this guy

and yeah i did see that

and i also remember the article

they didnt like it because it pretty much proved that school shootings dont occur as often as they think it does

it's also funnier because NPR is progressive as fuck

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>>42068306
>it's also funnier because NPR is progressive as fuck
They are, but they almost have some integrity left, which is why i still listen once in a while.

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>>42068308
this is true actually

SnowbellCountry code: ponies-luna.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42068323

>>42068132
Nope, they're good to go. They are kind worthless though. I had one on my .45 MPA pistol.

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>>42068323
Do you have a fancy grip MPA or one of the earlier gens?

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>>42068326

Older ones. I had a .45 and a 9mm. They were pretty fun for plinking but don't do anything a wondernine with a stendo won't do for half the weight and with much better ergos.

Also had a Keltec PLR-16 which was a great load of fun to shoot at night.

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>>42068328
Yeah i always saw the MPAs as just really big heavy glocks that dont work as well. haha.

Though, the one they have in 5.7mm with the fancy grip is kind of tempting.

The PLRs are such goofball machines haha. I want one so bad for no reason.

Everything keltec makes is a goofball machine.
This post was edited by its author on .

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>dems are wanting the red flag law on a federal level
what could possibly go wrong? even my dumbass state has the law

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>>42068337
How? Do you go to a federal judge with your case? Call the FBI?
A law like that doesn't make sense on the federal level.

It hardly makes sense on a local level as we discussed, because they are so poorly written.

Unfortunately this is something Trump would likely support.

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>>42068338
im not sure

i guess it's forcing every state to have it or something

https://dcdirtylaundry.com/warning-national-red-flag-gun-laws-are-coming/

and i also could see trump supporting

that honestly sounds scary to a point

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>>42068339
The red flag laws are the least stupid thing they talk about tbh. At least I could see how it would maybe make a difference. Like there is at least some tangible logic behind it.

I don't agree with how most of them are written, but at least its an idea that isn't completely disingenuous. Which i guess is the most positive thing i can say about it.

I dont think our bill here is written to badly tbh, but its hard to ignore the fact that its almost akin to thought crime these laws, which is why the ACLU is getting involved.

Its why I cant be completely against discussing these laws, because it is something that there are deeper questions to ask, where banning a pistol grips is just surface level fucking dumb.

Edit
I keep meaning to go read MDs law, and see how it could be abused so bad that it ended in the SWATing death of a 60yo man.
This post was edited by its author on .

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>>42068341
it just seems too risky and dangerous to me

regardless how effective it is or isnt is one thing

but it certainty shouldnt be done a federal level

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>>42068343
I agree, as with most things, this should not be a federal issue. I cant see it working at all at the federal level.

Even if it does help people, the federal government would fuck it up so bad and put so much bureaucracy around it that it would end up being completely in effective anyway.

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>>42068345
it would be a HUGE fucking mess

but get used to it because gun control is one of the top priorities to democrats

so expect more bullshit to surface
This post was edited by its author on .

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>>42068346
Its been their "top priority" for over 3 decades now.

I really dont think anything will be done on the federal level tbh. They know they wont have the senate behind them, they are just pandering to the uneducated.

They saw what happened when they did the 94 AWB, they lost both the house and the senate in the next election, militia groups formed all across the US, a federal building got kersploded and some dude wrote a super spooky book.

I dont think they really want that again, but they do want to politically posture for the people who just read headlines.

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>>42068348
well, you know they're going to try their damned best

honestly, if trump wants to get re-elected in 2020 he shouldnt sign any gun control bill into law

i am hoping here in florida our new elected governor will get rid of these "gun safety laws". he said he didnt like that scott signed them into law and he said he wouldnt have done the same. but, ill doubt he will do much to rid of stupid gun control laws, but i am hopeful

however, there is part of that bill i agree with which is to help people deal with the mentally ill and funding for it. programs for treating it

thats actually effective because it atleast it tries to fix the root issues
This post was edited by its author on .

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>>42068350
>honestly, if trump wants to get re-elected in 2020 he shouldnt sign any gun control bill into law
It would defiantly be a blow to his supporters. Depending on what it is, i might still vote for him even if he did, just because of the overall job he is doing. Its hard to say, esp because i doubt who ever runs against him would be a better alternative.
>i am hoping here in florida our new elected governor will get rid of these "gun safety laws". he said he didnt like that scott signed them into law and he said he wouldnt have done the same. but, ill doubt he will do much to rid of stupid gun control laws, but i am hopeful
Its pretty hard to get a law off the books. Repeal is way harder than passing. Even if he wants to he still needs the congress to go along.
>however, there is part of that bill i agree with which is to help people deal with the mentally ill and funding for it. programs for treating it
>thats actually effective because it at least it tries to fix the root issues
Well thats good news anyway, depending on how they come up with the money.

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>>42068353
yeah, id likely vote for him too if i had to

even more if hillary is running again lol

>Repeal is way harder than passing. Even if he wants to he still needs the congress to go along.

yeah, i know which is why i dont expect it to be done

but yeah, i mean. dems of course gonna push for yet another "assault weapons"

even though not a single one them can even define what an assault weapon is

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>>42068354
>even more if hillary is running again lol
TO BEAT HER TWICE WOULD BE EPIC!
Shes is so conceded, like WOW hahaha.
If she runs again, and esp if she wins, it will just prove to me this is all just a reality show produced by Trump, and ill turn it off haha.

>but yeah, i mean. dems of course gonna push for yet another "assault weapons"

Pro gun reps should start attaching riders to any anti-gun legislation that bans lies and insider trading for congress.

You'd see them drop gun control like a molten piece of steel.

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>>42068355
it would be pretty epic not even gonna lie lol

>>42068355
reps need to be exposing the dems stupidity when it comes to guns or something

i mean, we already got this brilliant minded democrat here >>42068297

i mean you can tell this guys knows a thing or two about guns, huh?
This post was edited by its author on .

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>>42068356
I really think its going to become a marijuana situation where people will start to realize...

"but i know a guy who does that... and they aren't evil..."

The more direct the attacks become, the happier i am. Like that guy saying he was going to nuke us unless we give up our guns... hahaha, thats the best news I got all day. People are pissed about that on both sides, and it just shows their true colours.

Sometimes I honestly hope they keep calling for the full repeal of the 2nd amendment because a majority of people were like "whoa whoa whoa..." and started to wake up that this is about more than just guns.

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>>42068363
oh, i fully respect the anti-gunners who want a full repeal

because at least they're honest

because at this point i am convinced most of them want that

they dont care about "common sense" gun laws or anything like that

so the next time they roll out some fudd going about "well im a gun owner and i think the 2nd amendment is just for hunting". we know its what they want

speaking of fudds i think they're just as bad as anti-gunners because they argue it's just for hunting

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>>42068365
Fudds are a product of 80's NRA and Regan propaganda is how i see it.

They are the upper-class people who like trap shooting and hunting with their $12,000 guns but have never had to live in a place where their door knob got jiggled at 2:30am.

They normally have about as much knowledge about guns as the average anti-gunner because if it isnt a shotgun or what field and stream told them is a "good deer rifle" they want none of it.

They don't understand that we are defending the AR15s because the bolt actions are next. If they do ever ban semi automatic rifes in the country get used to the term "sniper rifle" instead of "assault weapon".

One they get those, they will come for the "Riot Shotguns".

Then they will get what they wanted in the first place... the handguns.

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>>42068366
that actually makes a lot sense

it's usually the same lines they use

elmer "i am a hunter and i shoot skeet, i do sporting events. i have been around guns my entire life and i think it's time for reasonable gun control because if you cant hit a deer with an AR15 military grade weapon then what good are you? no person should be able to own guns. responsible gun owners dont own these" fudd

even a M14 is too much for a fudd

it sucks because anti gunners use them like puppet every time
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>>42068368
Well luckily they are dying out quick haha.

Honestly, romantically i agree with them sometimes. That the sport side should be more noble and mature. Sometimes i look at the KABLOOIE! AR15s DUUUD3!3!! youtube channels and shit, it looks like a bunch of skateboard punks with rifles to me.

But just because its not to my tastes, doesn't make it wrong, and thats the part they cant get over.

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>>42068369
i just dont like how ignorant they are

ive heard stories that they will go to gun range just to shoot like 5 - 10 rounds and just sit there and socialize with other fudds

they also sometimes nag people because they arent shootings a wooden rifle

honestly, i would find them to amusing if they werent used as a political puppet to enact gun control

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>>42068370
Honestly, in my experience, most gun clubs turn into cooking clubs that have a rifle range haha.

Mine isnt though (our kitchen is fucking horrid haha). But I def get those people show up and are like "what do you need those fancy rails for! why back in my day!..." hahaha.

But they are normally pretty awesome, and have a wealth of knowledge.

and they save you ammo by constantly BSing with you haha

Honestly, one of my favorite things about the shooting sports is the social aspect.
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>>42068371
makes sense

honestly wish i could go to ranges more often

simply cant afford it

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>>42068372
No one can afford to get to the range as much as they would like to haha.

You will though!

You need to come here and go range hopping with me! haha

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>>42068374
absolutely

sounds like a time to be had!

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>>42068377
THEN we go bar hopping!

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>>42068378
also sounds like a good time to be had!

hopefully i can make it up there someday

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>>42068379
One of us is bound to make it somewhere sometime haha.

I'm sure there are ranges and bars in FL too.

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>>42068380
there's no shortage of bars here

but there are some ranges also

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>>42068382
I always figured that all FL was.

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>>42068386
yeah, at one point were known as the gunshine state

but not anymore sadly

now when it comes to bars

you'd have to blind to not find one

there's a bar on every block around here

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>>42068389
Do you guys have those chain bars like they have out in the midwest?

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>>42068390
chain bars? im not sure what those are

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>>42068392
Every bar in the midwest is like a corporate chain it seems. Like franchises.

At least from what I've seen in OH and MO.

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>>42068393
oh no

the bars here are like 99% all local

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>>42068394
Killer!

The way it should be!

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>>42068395
yeah, for a tourist state were not super corporate

well sort of with the beach stores

but most of it here is small businesses

of course you have shit like mickey d's and bk of course

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>>42068396
Haha, the worst slums in india prob have a McD's.

It sounds pretty good ether way, and i think it would be a good time ether way.

I'm off to sleep though. Good talk as always.
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>>42068398
rest well

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I'm bumping this thread back to the front page because I got my Enfield back, plus 180 rounds of Greek surplus.

I'm never letting her go again.

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>>42068767
I'm fucking happy for you dude.

I'm still waiting for my first 870 to return to me. Someday...

Even though i bubbaed the fuck out of it, and sold it for wayyyy to much money after sandy hook.... i know it will come back to me at some point.

I'm really happy you got yours back though. Its like reconnecting with an old friend.

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2oCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42068773

>>42068769
Thanks.

I couldn't even really tell you why I do. I just like Enfields. This one is stamped "1944".

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>>42068773
They cock on closing, and thats something special.

I've always wanted an enfield, but i always came across them when i couldn't afford, or they were completely sporterized.

I want to see if i can legit do a mad minute tbh.

Bolt guns are my fix.

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Tonk.

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>>42068830
one of the flags is knocked over

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>>42068830
>tfw the T-54/55 is still in service but we don't see any of these around.

But Ratheon is upgrading M60's.
Raytheon - M60 A4S Main Battle Tank Service Life Extension Program [1080p]

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Neat.

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>>42068841
Well there were a LOT more T-54/55's built than M-26/46's. 1,160 vs. ~80,000. M46's and M47's were considered stopgaps meant only to be used until M48's could be fielded. There's still a fair few of them kicking around.

I do like the M60, it is a very large and very roomy tank and being the tall bastard that I am I approve of that. American tanks have always been roomy but the M60 is in a class all it's own being one of the tallest tanks ever constructed. I got trained on an M728, which is the Combat Engineering variant of the M60 fitted with a dozer blade, a crane boom and a 165mm short-barreled demolition mortar.

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>>42068856
Nice Find!

Going to pass that link around after I read the article in more detail.

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>>42068958
by all means pass it around

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A newer hidden gem field video from the Forgotten Weapons team.

Russian M855A1 vs. Russian Level 4 chest plate armor. Let's get ready to rumble!

M855A1: Russian Level Armor Penetration Testing

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>>42068826
Tanks for these posts!
Seriously, very cool.

>>42068856
This article seems to be advocating for "permit-to-purchase" laws. Idk how i feel about that.

>>42068967
But 5.56mm is the most devistating round on the planet! How could it fail?

I have some M855 kicking around, its mostly for plinking, never really cared for it, i think i got it for free. I dont think its Russian though.
_____________________
>Pic
I got wood!
I've been waiting for a nice pair of wood grips to find me for years, finally found a set at the right price.

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>>42068978
part of it is i guess

but its mostly pointing the ineffectiveness of california's background checks

which should come to nobodies surprise as gun laws dont work

its no more effective than drug laws

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>>42068979
Idk, it seemed like a majority of the article was about how in CT and MO they had a very measured positive effect on firearms homicide and suicide rates and straw purchases by implementing permit to buy laws, it even said they had an increase in firearms homicides and suicides in MO when the laws were repealed. 40% isnt a statistical anomaly.

It seems to be also saying that its not so much that "background checks dont work" so much as, if the data isnt entered into the system, it cant work. So it not the background check, it their shitty system that isnt working.

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>>42068980
well yeah, it's pointing out califonia in general

of course their systems dont work. it never does

you already know my mind isnt going to be changed

Behind the Scenes of a Chicago Gun Deal

no feel good laws are going to stop shootings

ever
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>>42068981
Well of course if you have someone fill out a piece of paper and check a system that has no data in it to begin with, it wont work.

What is wrong with enforcing a punishment on a criminal imposed by judge and jury?

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>>42068982
>What is wrong with enforcing a punishment on a criminal imposed by judge and jury?
nothing is wrong with that at all

that's due process

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>>42068983
Right, so if the punishment for the crime includes not being able to buy certain firearms at retail anymore, whats wrong with seeing that the punishment be enforced?

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>>42068985
i have no problem with people not being allowed to buy guns if they go through proper due process

my problem is preventing law abiding citizens the right who havent done a damn thing wrong

regardless if government knows they have done something wrong is not relevant

if you do something wrong with a gun the courts will decide on that

honestly this vid here makes it pretty simple Ron Paul 2nd Amendment 1989 [Rare]

you either did the crime or you didnt

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>>42068986
>my problem is preventing law abiding citizens the right who havent done a damn thing wrong
How does the background check prevent law abiding citizens the right?

You can cite a few mistakes, a very low percentage of mistakes, like mass shooting percentage low, but even that is a problem with the system, not with the idea.

<WARNING: ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE


In 8 years I've seen about 3 people have to appeal a denial, out of about ~14000 transfers, and all 3 won and haven't had an issue since.
But I've seen a much higher amount of felons and domestic abusers be rightfully denied. Prob ~10 a month.
Edit:
Nothing in that video was about this topic btw.
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>>42068988
doesnt matter

the 2nd amendment like every other right is an unalienable right

if a gun is misused it can be dealt with in the courts

did you know private sales in some states is absolutely legal?

do you have a problem with that too? which has been a tradition in america since forever?

also just because someone is a felon or even a domestic abuser doesnt mean they cant change their ways

they did the crime and they did their crime

NOTHING will EVER prevent violence

EVER
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>>42068989
>the 2nd amendment like every other right is an unalienable right
Yup, and there is no law that says anyone cant own a gun. Everyone in the US can own a gun right now, unless they are currently in jail. Totally legally, so everyone has that right.
But SOME crimes judges have imposed that part of the punishment be they cant buy certain guns at retail.
Background checks are Law Enforcement, not gun law, and they dont make a difference to a law abiding citizen.
>did you know private sales in some states is absolutely legal?
Yes.
>do you have a problem with that too?
No, states can do what they want.
Did YOU know that in many of those cases the law states that it the sellers responsibility to be sure that they are not selling a firearm to someone who is legally prohibited?
Hmmm... i wonder how they could do that?
>also just because someone is a felon or even a domestic abuser doesnt mean they cant change their ways
Which is why they can have their crimes expunged legally and have their rights restored. And its why they are still allowed to own some guns, just not modern cartridge guns.
>they did the crime and they did their crime time
Well, the time was a part of the punishment that the judge decided on, but so wasnt the loss of the right to own a modern firearm. Its probation, and if they want their right back, their probation period is 10 years in most cases, and after that they can have their crime expunged and buy all the modern firearms at retail that they want.

>NOTHING will EVER prevent violence

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if you have the ability to enforce a punishment a judge put on someone, you should.

Drug testing criminals who are on probation as part of their punishment wont stop criminals from taking drugs, it just enforces the punishment.

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>>42068992
im fine with people not being able to buy guns if the judge says they cant

no problem there

>Did YOU know that in many of those cases the law states that it the sellers responsibility to be sure that they are not selling a firearm to someone who is legally prohibited?

>Hmmm... i wonder how they could do that?
yup, and that should be where it stands. period.

that includes gun stores as well

> they can have their crime expunged and buy all the modern firearms at retail that they want.

not all states allow this
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>>42068993
>im fine with people not being able to buy guns if the judge says they cant
>no problem there
Okay, so then it fallows you should be fine with enforcing that law judgement by the background check, see below.
>yup, and that should be where it stands. period.
>that includes gun stores as well
Okay, then if you think that, you shouldn't have a problem with people doing a background check so that they know that they are selling a gun legally, because if they couldn't, they themselves might be felons, or they might just never sell to anyone they dont know personally. Without the background check, no gun store would dare sell guns if they were responsible to know if who they are selling to is legal to buy.
>not all states allow this
Then that's something I would advocate changing. Being able to expunge a crime off your record is important.
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>>42068996
im honestly confused here

no offence but you said its up to the states to allow private sales

but gun stores need to allow federal a background check?

they're still both selling arms privately

its the risk you take on any accord

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>>42068998
A sale at retail is not a privet sale, legally speaking. When you buy something at target, you are buying from a licensed business, not a privet seller, and its not different at a gun store.
The biggest legal difference is that someone who sells guns for profit as a means of regular income needs a business license and an FFL, a privet seller who is just selling 1 or 2 guns a year doesn't.

>its the risk you take on any accord

Making them take that risk, without providing a means with which to alleviate it would be a psudo-ban on firearms because it would absolutely destroy the industry.
Not only that but by doing it through NICS, you make it their responsibility rather than yours, so the government is held accountable for mistakes, rather than citizens.

I think the NICS should be available to anyone, so that if a privet seller uses it, and NICS makes the mistake, the privet seller cant be charged with a felony.

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>>42068999
this opens up a whole new box then

because then it seems like businesses should be controlled by the state

it shouldnt

>I think the NICS should be available to anyone, so that if a privet seller uses it, and NICS makes the mistake, the privet seller cant be charged with a felony.

honestly, nobody should be charged with something you no longer own anyway

that's stupid

thats like trying to charge a store because someone died from alcohol poisoning

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>>42069000
>this opens up a whole new box then
>because then it seems like businesses should be controlled by the state
>it shouldnt
How do you figure? Is no different than if you sell your car on craigslist you don't need a dealers license, but if you sell 20 cars on craigslist a month, you do.
Business licenses are mostly for tax reasons. FFLs are required with guns because of the volume of firearms you are assumed to move, and so that manufacturers, dealers, and distributors can transfer and ship firearms to each exempt from background checks.
If you have an FFL you dont need to do any background check.

>honestly, nobody should be charged with something you no longer own anyway

>that's stupid
>thats like trying to charge a store because someone died from alcohol poisoning
I dont mean if someone uses the gun, i mean if the seller uses the NICS system.

So you said you were okay with it being the sellers responsibility to know if the buyer is legal.
Well, giving them access to the NICS would give them a way too, and protect them legally if it turns out the buyer was actually prohibited.

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>>42069001
it's a whole different animal because those regulations are retarded

another reason that is making me tempted to run for congress

>Well, giving them access to the NICS would give them a way too, and protect them legally if it turns out the buyer was actually prohibited.

or instead not leave to that as its been since forever

why do people ignore americas history?

WHY?

its been fine since forever until a random "mass shooting" happens

which happens on a daily basis in the "hood"

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>>42069002
>it's a whole different animal because those regulations are retarded
I dont understand why you have a problem with business licenses? LLCs and DBAs protect the owner of a business from being sued, or their personal property being taken in a bankruptcy.

I dont understand your 2nd part tbh. Can you rephrase?

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Its 2am and I have to go to bed, so maybe we can come back to this at some point.

I'm posting my Beretta again because it think its damn sexy with the new (to me) wood grips, and i feel bad it got buried so quick haha.

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>>42069004
why should anyone in free country be required a licence to open up their own business?

it's your own risk

americas history. you could start a taxi service with no charge

why is that a bad thing?

why is freedom so scary?
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>>42069007
>why should anyone in free country be required a licence to open up their own business?
So that someone dosnt buy the house next door to yours and open a chlorine dump.

For record keeping and accounting.

For zoning laws to be enforced.

For employment standard laws to be enforced.

and more!

You say that this stuff has never existed until recently, but my town was Incorporated in 1745 and we have records of businesses and licenses from back then. Its been a pretty standard thing.

And you don't NEED a license in all cases, I am a privet contractor when i work a few jobs, like lyft and when i do wedding photography, which means I don't have an LLC or a DBA and im completely liable for everything, including taxes. But i wouldn't be able to open a brick and mortar store in my town without getting a license because that is the statue of the town.

I mean, you hate when birds chirp, how would a feel if someone opened a machine shop in the house next door to you and started pounding metal at 6am? haha. How free would you feel?

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>>42069025
Isn't that type of stuff dealt with local ordinances though?

Also there's shitloads of noise RIGHT NOW and has been all morning. From people
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>>42069026
Yeah, licenses to do business are almost always issued on the town/city level and LLCs are at the state level.

Also, whats going on outside? haha

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqICountry code: ponies-glimglam.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069029

>>42069028
That's fine then

Its local so the corruption is far less likely

As for noise

Lawn service as always

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>>42069029
So literally the boomer meme with the guy on the lawn tractor outside the window and you trying to sleep? haha

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqICountry code: ponies-glimglam.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069032

>>42069031
Nope, it's a lawn company that starts this shit at 7 in the morning.

Its obnoxious as fuck. I knew someone who moved away because of the noise. He works overnights.

Dickheads on harleys to lawn mowers

It made him go insane.

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>>42069032
People on Harley's with loud pipes are the worst. I live on a main road and since im on the outskirts of the city all the big harley groups go past my house to leave the suburbs and head for the country.

Fucking. Obnoxious. Assholes.

They are normally nice people, even the angels are pretty chill normally, but fuck... shup up. haha.

Just as bad when its street bike too, they arnt exempt.

Lawn mowers at least serve a purpose, but yeah 6am is a bit early.

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>>42069033
they outlaw certain types of loud mufflers

but harleys?

thats just aye okay for whatever reason

i cant fucking stand them

i feel like the only people i like harley riders are only harley riders

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>>42069034
Yeah I dont think its legal to have pipes that loud, i think they just do it. Its why they travel in packs haha.

I know a ton of people who ride harleys, including both my uncles.
and they say the same thing about loud bikes "but freedom".

Requiring mufflers is just a restriction of freedom they say.

Also, there should be a noise ordnance in your town, are you sure that lawn service is licensed?

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>>42069035
>Also, there should be a noise ordnance in your town, are you sure that lawn service is licensed?

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Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069178

What video game got irl weapons done the most right?

LisbonCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42069183

>>42069178
Not sure how accurate it is but Receiver is basically a proof of concept for manual ammunition reloading system.

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>>42069178
For all its flaws, the call of duty series has always done a pretty good job with the firearms themselves.

Black Ops II is probably the closest thing to Forza Motorsports with guns as I've seen, not the future guns, but i say that about Bops2 because, the guns had the actual manufactures logos on them.

Not a smart move IMO but it was Remington and Kel Tec, so what can you expect?

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>>42069178
Killing floor 1

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>>42069178
In terms of wounding, Rising Storm 2: Vietnam is pretty good. Even with an M-16 you can 1 shot people if you hit them in their vitals.

>>42069213
Ever since playing Arma 3, all I've wanted for optics are a red chevron ACOG and an Eotech EXPS3. I think the branding works. At least on me it does.
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>>42069218
I've never played. But i assume its ridiculous haha.

>>42069230
Oh the markering def works, its just "kill your friends with a remington 700!" Seems like a pretty shitty ad campaign, esp atm.
Not to mention the guns actually worked, which was false advertising haha.
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AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42069243

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>>42069005
Very nice grips! Very ascetic!

I may buy a Px4 Storm for Xmas. Have to double check my budget and potential choices in the local used gun shops. Damn how I wish they would build this in 10mm!

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>>42069243
People all the time be giving the PX4 a hard time for the rotating barrel lock up...

But now that Glock is doing it "ITS THE BEST THING EVER" haha

I had a PX4 full size and a sub compact 9mm, both were awesome and never gave me a lick of trouble.

Both recoiled like a dream too.

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>>42069245
People actually know about rotating barrel pistols?

I like the idea of them, and I don't get why they never caught on as much. I'd go and buy a Glock with a rotating barrel though. That's bretty cool.

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>>42069248
From what i can gather, people dont like them because in the 80s colt produced one and it was a marketing flop, so all the old timers shit talk the design because "it couldnt be colt".

One thing I've learned about the gun industry is that every hates everything by default haha. Unless its glock.

But yeah, the rotating barrel design works pretty well, reduces recoil and wear.

There is nothing wrong with a tilting barrel ether, I think it might be better for the simplicity of it, but they both work just fine and give different advantages.

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>>42069234
It seems realistic enough for me, I mean people can hip fire rifles designed to pierce tanks right?

a lost pony !piNKiEPie.Country code: ponies-derpy.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069287

>>42069281
as far as I can tell, tank rifles pretty much were no match for self-propelled rockets.

I'm curious if the tank rifles were effective at all, does anypony know?

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>>42069317
LMFAOOOOOOOO!

IM USING THIS FOR A CLASS I TEACH!

Edit:
I sent this to fucking everyone i know hahaha.
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>>42069365
>"When they take away our guns, it's over," he said. "Liberty, freedom, the constitution are gone."

Okay this guy is going a bit overboard.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069374

>>42069373
Slightly easier to put anything on your civilians if their means of protest are inept.

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>>42069373
yeah, it would have been better if the dude said: "they just keep chipping and chipping away at our constitution for pseudo-security."

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>>42069374
If you're using firearms as a means of protest then things have already failed.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069381

>>42069377
Armed protest generally requires that the state has drastically failed to meet civilian needs, yes.

Starshine!Laura/wmXMCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42069419

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>>42069377

How's the saying going? Ballot box, soap box, cartridge box? Pretty sure there's a fourth one in there somewhere but I don't remember what it is right now.

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>>42069419
Milling AR15 lower to M16

I would attach a smug anime face to this post also, but Ponychan will not let me.

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>>42069377
Firearms are a means for you to protest things verbally, and protect yourself if who your protesting against decides they dont like what you say enough to want to silence you violently.

>>42069419
I saw this. Its been a long time coming, and trump has been pushing for it, as has the NRA.
Scary piece of plastic, and if they dont re-legislate exactly what the definition of a machine gun is to include this, there will be some serious legal issues, because its not a machine gun, you can bumpfire any semi automatic, and it could be a ban on semi automatic firearms if taken to the extreme.

Its why ATF has been dragging their feet about it, because they know this, and they dont want to make a ban that their Tech department cant uphold.

I will be very interested to get my hands on the actual wording of such a ban.

>>42069424
I will never not have a gun.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqICountry code: ponies-glimglam.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069432

>>42069419
Well aware and been aware

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2oCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42069433

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Yesterday I went to Big 5 to inquire if they had any Yugo Mausers left.

The clerk behind the gun counter told me Big 5 has stopped selling military surplus of any kind.

You can take that however you will, but I won't be going back there ever.

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>>42069433
>Big 5
Is that like, a chain gun store?
Like a big box store for guns or something?

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>>42069435
>Big 5 Sporting Goods store

It's a mid level retailer of overpriced running shoes and tacky exercise clothing only Slavs would be caught dead in squatting down at the corner.

They were pretty much a fudd friendly hunting guns store, never really known for scary black guns or surplus. Those items were rarely in inventory unless they bought tons of them. Ammo prices were not bad but limited to hunting calibers like WalMart.

https://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/

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>>42069436
Ah, so basically like what Dick's sporting goods is here.

There was another one like that i went to in Missouri, but i forget the name.

We only have Dicks and Sports Authority here, but Sports Authority i think went under, so just Dicks.

Walmart cant sell guns here, because every walmart in the state got their FFL revoked by ATF by selling without a 4473.

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>>42069427
>Firearms are a means for you to protest things verbally, and protect yourself if who your protesting against decides they dont like what you say enough to want to silence you violently.

If it's not the government, sure.

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>>42069441
Care to elaborate?

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>>42069442
Let's look at the practicality of the situation here.

You start a protest and the government doesn't like it, so they send in an anti-riot squad with shields, gas and bean bag rounds. You decide, "Oh hell no!" and pull out your AR-15 to "defend your right to protest".

I would very much like to hear how you believe this situation would play out.

Whenever anyone talks about defending themselves from 'the government' with a firearm, it reminds me of this:
HES GOT A SWORD!!!
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>>42069444
LOL! @ the vid

I see what your saying, but I'm thinking of the scenario different.

I'm thinking more like, and I'll use a crazy example here, because it applies to all Americans...

So say your a communist. You want to write a communist news paper, preach your ideas, your always at the state house, you are gathering a group of like minded folks that share those ideas.

Say its the 1950s and the Red Scare is going on, but you still believe strongly in your ideals and preach your ideas.

You and your group, having the ability to defend itself against people trying to "stop" you is a deterrent. Even if those people are the police.

Take this real thing that happened, not to long ago, for example.
https://the-orbit.net/blackskeptics/2012/12/20/the-nra-the-kkk-and-the-2nd-amendments-black-history/
>In 1958, retired Marine Robert Williams opened a chapter of the NAACP in Monroe, North Carolina. Monroe was also Klan country, and the KKK mounted several vicious assaults against African-Americans in Monroe. In 1960, Williams applied for and was granted a charter to establish an NRA chapter in Monroe; the association also provided firearms training materials. Mr. Williams and other black NRA members in Monroe subsequently successfully defended themselves with firearms against an attack coordinated between the KKK and the local police.

So when the police (the government) decided they didnt want "no damn niggers" in their town. The NAACP defended themselves from an attack they knew was coming, from the government, with firearms.

I'm not saying you need to have an AR15 at a protest at the statehouse, im just saying there are cases, within the lifetime of our parents, where citizens of the country have needed to, and successfully did, defend themselves against the government with firearms.
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>>42069450
The KKK doesn't act on behalf of the government and any police cooperating with the KKK on an offensive should be considered traitors to the state. The KKK for all intents and purposes is a terrorist organization, and any state employee cooperating with terrorists should be considered a traitor.

So this isn't really an example of someone defending themselves against the government, but a private milita.
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>>42069451
the KKK didnt act behalf of the government

they simply influenced government

one the first gun control acts in the USA was the most racist acts you could find

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>>42069451
>The KKK doesn't act on behalf of the government and any police cooperating with the KKK on an offensive should be considered traitors to the state. The KKK for all intents and purposes is a terrorist organization, and any state employee cooperating with terrorists should be considered a traitor.
And that all get determined after the fact doesn't it?
In the mean time your local PD is full of KKK members, and they are the government, and if you cant defend yourself against them, then they will continue to be the government.

Government is just a word for people who society granted power, in this case, they are abusing that power, which is why those folks used their right to defend themselves, even thought it was an attack from the government.

>So this isn't really an example of someone defending themselves against the government, but a private milita.

Again, while they are wearing badges and have the power to arrest you, they are the government at the time, no matter what you want to call them once they start their abuse.

Think of it this way.
"the proud boys" are (im lead to believe) made up of a lot of police, so if their little movement gains traction, and you happen to be someone they dont agree with, and your party headquarters is a target for an attack, by the police (even if some of them arnt wearing uniforms at the time...) is where your right to defend yourself from the government comes into play.

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>>42069453
>Government is just a word for people who society granted power, in this case, they are abusing that power, which is why those folks used their right to defend themselves, even thought it was an attack from the government.

Incorrect. The government is the system that runs the country. Individuals who work for the government are not the government itself, they are tools of the government and while you can defend yourself from unruly individuals that mishandle the power the government bestows upon them, trying to take down the government itself with firearms is like starting a war with the sun.
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>>42069454
>trying to take down the government itself with firearms is like starting a war with the sun.
...

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>>42069454
Fair enough.

If thats the only thing you have to refute from my statement, i suppose i made my point.

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>>42069455
It's not practical. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying that shooting at it isn't going to get you anywhere.

>>42069456
Yeah, that is basically the only issue I had with what you said.

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>>42069457
You are right, there will always be a "system of government" and you will never "take down the government"

But thats not the point, the point is so the individuals in government, cant take you down, or your group, or most importantly, your idea.
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>>42069457
if it didnt it wouldnt be considered a threat to anyone

its just saying the idea that government workers would even side with bureaucrats if they so had to is insane

you can call this anecdotal and that/s fair to do so

but i have spoken to many police officers who have said if there was ever a mandate to take guns away from the people they would REFUSE to do so

there's youtube vids of them saying the same thing

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>>42069458
As long as they don't have backup from the primary force, yes. If they act independently and aren't being supported by the government at large, yes. You can defend yourself quite well.

I'm not saying guns don't have a purpose and can't be used for defence. My concern is that guns are used as a placebo by the government. They know that if push came to shove the general population would be severely outmatched. But they want you to THINK you're safe from them if you own a gun because if you knew the truth it would cause mass panic.

You can owns as many guns as you want. I don't care. Just don't fall into a false sense of security.
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I don't bother much with guns because the ham-fisted approach was never my style.

Many people would see a towering body as a threat and want to amass an army and weapons for a full on assault if the need arises. A hard, vicious fight.

Me? I learn to suck dick. I learn to become real good at sucking dick. Until my services are requested by those people you fear the most. Then, while I am on my knees with the sharpest part of my body mere millimeters from the most sacred and sensitive part of theirs, all it takes is the same pressure as a single trigger pull and all of a sudden I'm the one in control. Of everything.

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>>42069460
>Just don't fall into a false sense of security.
fun fact, i never feel secure with a gun

i just see as a reasonable use of self deference

guns never guarantee your chance of living

but they keep they the chances of living far higher

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>>42069460
Well, I think when people say "defend from the government" these are the scenarios they have in mind.

An actual war against citizens and the military would just be the end of America as we know it, no matter who won, so it prob wont come to that. The more likely scenario is like what i said with the proud boys or antifa corrupting your local police.

On the flip side, you do have examples like in Waco TX where the federal government thought the branch dividians (or whatever their cult was called) had a full auto AK47, got into a small shootout with them, couldnt win peacefully, so they burned 74 people alive.

That was easy to get away with though, because it was a crazy cult, they couldnt do that with something like a recognized political movement. Not without making martyrs of them.

Even Waco had a citizen response with the OKC bombing... and then wow... things cooled down quick in the 90s and government stopped ruby ridging people haha.

It will never be as cut and dry, as "We the government plan to stop this idea with force" being an official statement, and i think people who talk about defending against the powers that be, know this.
mostly anyway
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Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069464

Let us never forget that governments require our ability to work and consume in ways favorable to them, and this is the one bargaining chip the 'peasantry' may always be at risk of using.

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>>42069462
>>42069463
I'm not anti-gun. I just like to view things from a practical perspective. If you're going to defend yourself from a mugger or a burgler, that is one thing. But if the government is after you, no gun you own is going to protect you from that, because at that point it becomes a war of attrition and you will not win that war.

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>>42069465
you dont know that though

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>>42069464
Good luck trying to get people to willingly cooperate on that. Unions are the closest thing you've ever gotten to something like that and Unions themselves are plauged with drama and strife because of disagreements.

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>>42069465
I know you are not anti gun, and your right, if the entire government is after you as an individual, your pretty fucked, and a pew pew aint going to help.

Its the examples I gave, of groups looking for change, having skirmishes with lower level government that is important.

If the civil rights groups in the 50s and 60s couldn't defend themselves against the corrupt police during the era, the movement may have been squashed, and that is something we still need to have the ability to do.

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>>42069466
I do, because their resources are practically endless and yours are surrounded on all sides by theirs. Statistically speaking, you have a 0.0000000~1 chance of success, give or take a few hundred thousand 0's.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069470

>>42069465
Reminder that you cannot govern, produce or trade by throwing enough bombs at the problem, and while doing this with brown people is one thing, it becomes another if it is your own body.

>>42069467
History remains strewn full of revolts against governing bodies once conditions were reached that neither airy-fairy ideals nor interpersonal division could keep supporting.

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>>42069469
im not saying by the individual level

i mean en masse

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>>42069470
>History remains strewn full of revolts against governing bodies once conditions were reached that neither airy-fairy ideals nor interpersonal division could keep supporting.

It is becoming increasingly more difficult for such things to succeed as elimination techniques become more and more sophisticated.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069473

>>42069469
Their resources depend on civilian labor.

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>>42069472
yet we cant even seem to control poor middle eastern countries

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>>42069471
>>42069473
Do you honestly believe that millions of people are going to just give up their cushy lifestyles to help aid you in your assault?

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>>42069475
how do you think the united states was created?

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069477

>>42069472
Would love to see the technique that garners personal acceptance of hunger, poverty, violence, etc. en masse, forevermore.

>>42069475
Give me a few million who feel their society no longer or never did provide for them, particularly if existential fears come up.

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>>42069472
>>42069474
Honestly, people give government too much credit as far as their capabilities. They are as fallible as any company, and for sure dont run as smooth.

Thats what the "shadow government" meme is. The un-elected ABCs that dont change employees every 2 years.
Thats why people are scared of them, because they can long-term a plan.
But they are still ultimately controlled by a bunch of hair dressers who got popular locally by saying buzz words a bunch of times.

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>>42069476
Well, it was created when people who already used firearms to hunt and defend themselves from wildlife started a war with a country that was on the other side of an ocean in which the most sophisticated means of transportation at the time took MONTHS to cross, and where the general means of communication was a guy writing a physical letter and giving it to another guy to ride on horseback to deliver it to another guy.

As well as the people they were fighting also fighting a much larger war with a much bigger enemy much closer to themselves at the same time, with weapons that had to be manually reloaded after every shot.
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>>42069478
well i never argued they're not people

they're people with good intentions but those intentions dont work

>>42069479
it would be impossible to name a threat

but if it came down to it best believe people would fight back

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>>42069479
I read recently that king george actually caved in and canceled the tea tax, but it took so long for the message to arrive, that stuff like the Boston massacre happened and the snowball began to roll.

The internet sucked back then.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069483

An aside; one wonders how exactly the Arab Spring got going, where we have multiple islamic dictatorships vs a numerical minority of disposable civilians.

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>>42069482
People use the American revolution as the 'ultimate underdog story' but it only happened because of the lack of technology available at the time.

If the same war had happened today the American resistance would have been crushed in a matter of weeks.
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>>42069481
I'm not even really making the "people" argument right now haha.

Im agreeing with your point about the middle east.

The way i see it, the government is like if all the employees of a company got changed out every 2 years, and everything changed direction all the time and no one agreed on anything.

How effective do you think that company would be?

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>>42069485
a company can die on its own but a government can forever live on your tax dollars

it doesnt need to be managed

it can survive regardless if you like it or not
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>>42069484
>People use the American revolution as the 'ultimate underdog story'
Really it was a war between England and France.

We were Englands Vietnam war of 1776 haha.

>If the same war had happened today the American resistance would have been crushed in a matter of weeks.

It wouldn't though, because as riots and shit broke out in citys, people deserted the military and agencies like NSA... shit would get weird.

It would be mayhem, and no one would win.

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>>42069486
Exactly! no matter how bad they are at it, they wont "fail" like a company would, this allows them to get worse and more mismanaged forever haha.

Which might be a pro or a con depending on how you look at it.
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>>42069487
I'm saying that if America was still a colony of England and tried to do the same revolt in present day. Not modern day America.

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>>42069488
to me that shows a con to it

thats why i dont believe in bailouts of corporations

if they suck let them rot

government doest have to worry about that

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>>42069489


People were still declaring independence from England up into the 90s.

Its just 'peaceful' now.

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>>42069490
Yup, thats my point.

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>>42069492
well no disagreements there

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>>42069491
England was at a huge disadvantage during that war because of the distance and lack of intercontinental communications. Orders would literally have to be sent by ship and reports would have to be sent back. The English military was fighting with basically a couple months worth of lag, no real solid way of getting reinforcements or supplies... It was just a mess.

That basically would not happen in modern day with satellites, GPS, and the ability to travel between England and the US in a matter of hours.

It would be a complete massacre. So just because it happened in the past does not mean it would be viable in present day.
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Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069495

Who the hell is maintaining all that tech's infrastructure and energy except for the labor of civilians?

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>>42069494
we get BTFO in the middle east on a daily basis though

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>>42069493
I was more or less trying to back up the point you made about the middle east being uncontrollable.

edit
>>42069496
this one haha
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Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069498

Like, imagine if everyone who isn't either a statesman or corporate management just up and vanished.

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>>42069495
You are under the impression that every civilian would quit their jobs and join your cause.

The Matrix Restaurant Scene

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>>42069497
i get what you're saying now

people need to understand war is so much more complex than that they think

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>>42069494
Well, it didnt work back then like it does now. Orders in the new world wernt directly given from england, england would send people the america to give the direct orders, and trust they were the right people for the job.

They had a global empire to maintain, England might have controlled the Meta, but the local governors controlled the Micro.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069504

>>42069499
Hell, I'll do you one better and suggest the loss of only 10% of the workforce; even the military itself would be at a confused and handicapped position.

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>>42069496
It's harder to win a game when you don't make the rules and aren't allowed to cheat.

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>>42069502
I got your back bro!

I've been trying to use this screencap for like a week haha
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>>42069505
yeah see the thing is with war

it doesnt entirely have rules

>>42069506
i like it! and thank you

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>>42069507
>yeah see the thing is with war
>it doesnt entirely have rules

If you honestly believe this, I can understand why you believe what you do.

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>>42069508
do you honestly believe during WW2 they planned all this?

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>>42069508
>If you honestly believe this, I can understand why you believe what you do.
Right back atcha... haha.

All is fair in love and war.
How much of the Geneva convention do you think NK planned to fallow?

>>42069507
I took it to use as an example when i was talking about the road to friendship song, trixie character development, but i forgot to use it, so iv been waiting to be on the same side of an argument with you haha.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069512

>>42069505
We blow up villages and they're just a crossfire statistic on the news for a day; anything further would be so destructive as to impede any reputation of being merely "wicked but sane" and of having any base with which to build infrastructure for US-friendly regimes to work with.

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>>42069510
....i sometimes dont pay attention so thank you

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>>42069509
If you go to another country and start mindlessly murdering another country's civilians the world will respond with, "Oh shit nigga what are you doing?!" and be all over your ass.

If you just mindlessly start murdering your own civilians the world will respond with, "Wow, sucks to live there."

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>>42069514
>If you go to another country and start mindlessly murdering another country's civilians the world will respond with, "Oh shit nigga what are you doing?!" and be all over your ass.
news flash the US has been doing this for years though

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>>42069514
ARE YOU JOKING!?

What about the past 25 years of American military deployment!?

Lisbox!uNItYjss.6Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42069517

i agree with toybox

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>>42069515
So what makes you think they will suddenly not do it when it comes to you and your revolution?

>>42069516
Accidents happen.

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>>42069517
Care to bring a perspective?

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069522

Hey guys remember when Russia ate part of Ukraine, that's still relevant huh.

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>>42069520
infrastructure and their own paychecks

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>>42069520
>Accidents happen.
Well, where are the "rules" in that case?

Tens of thousands of civilians were killed in Iraq, directly and indirectly as a result of our involvement.

No one got "all over our ass" to any tangible degree anyway.
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>>42069523
This is war Mikie. If they don't kill you they don't GET paychecks.

They will level entire city blocks, an orphanage and an old folks home just to bury you under 15 tons of concrete.

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>>42069525
what insensitive do they have to defend a bad government then?

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069527

>Nuking your own country to get your productivity back.

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>>42069526
Not wanting to be drawn and quartered by an unruly mob?

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>>42069530
which in this case is government

is this not who we are talking about?

the ones who are going to its civilians

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>>42069527
I don't think you quite grasp the situation here. They have two options: Murder hundreds of civilians or give up and die.

What choice do you think they are going to to make?

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069533

pajeet my son there is revolt and you must choose

give concessions to angry mob in exchange for wealth and security coming back

or

nuke them all and rule over sands of empty wasteland

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>>42069525
I think the desertion rate from the military would be pretty damn high if they started killing their own.

They are trained to desert in that case.

I wouldn't be surprised if entire bases were civilian controlled tbh.

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thats it i am posting this again

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>>42069532
Give up and join the other side.

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>>42069534
See, the joy of automation is that it doesn't really care what your motives are.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069538

the royals of europe will just make the army kill the whole country if need be, there is no way they could be challenged seriously

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>>42069537
People are not robots!

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069540

if rome falls they'll just execute everyone, if the emperor has nothing to lose why not

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>>42069539
They're just harder to program.

You don't seem to understand how this works. They aren't going to bring in a group of Marines and go,

"Okay, so we need to breach and clear this building. It's full of mostly unarmed civilians that are putting up a reistance to our totalitarian rule, go kill them all."

No they will bring them in and say "A terrorist cell has taken root in this apartment complex, many of them posing as civilans. We have reports that they are planning to target a highly populated area that will cause hundreds of casualties. We need you to go in an eliminate them."

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>>42069542
and they wont listen

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>>42069543
Why would they not?

You think they're just going to magically know they are being lied to?

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069545

they won't tell the knights "kill fellow christians please" they'll tell them "kill these witches posing as christians" and that's how they'll get the knights to kill everyone until only the knights exist and then our kingdom will be secure and productive

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>>42069542
>You don't seem to understand how this works.
>

>No they will bring them in and say "A terrorist cell has taken root in this apartment complex, many of them posing as civilans. We have reports that they are planning to target a highly populated area that will cause hundreds of casualties. We need you to go in an eliminate them."

Yeah, on the first day. If they do that, depending on how big the group is, and how popular the message becomes, they will become MARTYRS.

This is why a FULL SCALE violent revolution will never happen in this country. NO ONE WILL WIN.

This is why its not about "taking down the government" its about defending yourself from corrupt local officials.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069547

Also the army defecting has often been the killing blow to a bunch of other regimes.

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>>42069545
No one cares about security and production when it comes down to 'kill or be killed'.

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>>42069544
because it involves their fellow americans who are like them

and possibly their own family
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>>42069549
Mikie, please. The people they send on these missions are sociopaths who have no family.

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>>42069550
gonna need source on that

[citation needed]

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>>42069548
>No one cares about security and production when it comes down to 'kill or be killed'.

But toy... i thought there were rules to war...

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069553

>>42069548
And which faction is more favorable to side with, the ones taking over a country for w/e ideology, or the one ordering that no future ever exist again, quite literally?

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>>42069551
Yeah, let me just crack open the black ops government database and get that for you.

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>>42069554
dont make a claim if you have no proof to back it up
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>>42069552
>But toy... i thought there were rules to war...

There are, when you are not fighting on your own turf. If you're fighting on your own turf, you get to make the rules.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069557

Like, between evil or annihilation, most will choose evil.

>>42069554
then where the bloody hell is your source

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>>42069556
the "rules of war" are like banning pistol grips... nonsense feel good rubbish.

There are never rules to war. ever. you win or you die.

The closest we ever came was when royalty ruled Europe and it was more akin to human chess.

Even then, if there were resources at stake, all that went out the window.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069560

Like, pretty much anything affirmed to be in secret files is almost by definition unverifiable.
Not to mention, sociopaths and psychopaths make for horrible teammates and terrible to trust to remain loyal.

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>>42069555
>>42069557
If you're going to rely on 'offical sources' for everything, you're going to get the wool pulled over your eyes constantly.

Real life is not like a movie. Assassinations aren't people setting up a sniper position down the street and shooting you through your window when you're making breakfast. That is too messy and it draws too much attention.

They are going to send someone posing as someone from a utility company in to rig something in your house to kill you so that when it happens no one will report it.

Or your plane will mysteriously crash. Or your car will get wrapped around a tree.

Do I have sources for this? Not specifically. But it's the most practical solution.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069562

"I only have naked self-interest which I calculate carefully; I will always keep with the present government, even if they cannot give me anything I want and have waning power."

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>>42069561
this whole thing seems to be how you believe it to be though

every individual has their own purpose

they arent bots

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>>42069561
In this case, where you are stating that every soldier is a mindless automaton, with no life or family...

You have to have something to back that up.

I mean, i was at my friends wedding, and he was a marine..

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>>42069562
I really wish you would link posts so we can somewhat try to translate whatever it is you are saying here.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069566

"I am so chronically bored and also unemphatic that I only seek thrills and defiance; an ordered and structured organization will always remain perfect for me, even if I don't feel I can get anything from being ordered at."

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>>42069563
>>42069564
Do either of you have any idea what Mac is rambling about at this point?

It seems to be completely unrelated to the conversation.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069569

>>42069568
Mocking the idea that the mentally ill make for reliable infantry, rather than molding and shaping otherwise normal humans.

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>>42069568
I think he is sarcastically quoting what an NPC marine would say, if they were a bot.

But im honestly not sure.

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>>42069568
well i mean, im not concerned with him. i just wanted a source for your claim.

thats all
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>>42069569
So you're not bothering to actually reply with anything productive.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069573

>>42069572
You're the one claiming that we can trust socios and psychos to loyally stay on one side or be otherwise trustworthy, no matter what happens.

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>>42069573
No. I'm saying that the best people to use to get the job done are people who have no motivations outside of compensation.

Or people so batshit crazy they will believe anything you say as long as you say it's for the good of America.
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>>42069574
But we are talking about the military at large during a hypothetical American civil war... not some crack squad of anime characters you decided existed.

Gunslinger girls was not a documentary.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069576

>>42069574
And this can be guaranteed the entire way through, no matter how endangered or crumbled the institution itself may be, right up to the point of either the leaders going to their hanging, or going to destroy literally everything that money could have bought.

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>>42069575
>Implying people like this don't exist

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>>42069577
>implying you have no clue if they do or dont so they cant be used in this debate.

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>>42069576
The fanatics, yes.

The people who don't give a shit will bail to another country.

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>>42069578
Seeing as how there are people who will drown their own children because God told them to, the existence of people who will kill "for America" is highly likely.

Hell. Look at any news story today. People have no problems claiming anyone they think is bad is a Nazi and call to have them killed.

All you gotta say is that someone is a bad guy and getting a mob that wants to murder them is easy.
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Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069581

>>42069577
>implying they can remain fiercely loyal and reliable to other humans, impeccably self-sacrificing, with almost or literally the fervor of a religion

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>>42069580
The chance of that person being competent enough, mentally and physically sound enough, and moral enough, to serve any purpose in a roll on a special operations team is highly UN likely.

You really want a person who would hold their childs head underwater, as part of a team whos job it is to navigate the most stressful situations a human can encounter?

Do you think that would be reasonable at all?
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Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069583

Why is everyone on the incumbent regime's side perfectly programmed and fully reliable automatons, but any challenger will be too petty and illogical to change a lightbulb, yet both of these groups are only human?

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>>42069582
Not all sociopaths are psychopaths.

Point being I don't think any of this would go as smoothly as you believe it would.

If a bunch of angry rednecks with rifles is all it would take to overthrow the government I'm pretty sure it would have happened by now.
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Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069586

>>42069585
You've never answered how loyalty or reliability can come of just giving promises and nothing else to a sociopath, or handing the mentally ill a gun and saying "go".

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>>42069585
>If a bunch of angry rednecks with rifles is all it would take to overthrow the government I'm pretty sure it would have happened by now.
no it wouldnt have

in fact a congressmen in your state has been saying stupid shit

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>>42069585
>Point being I don't think any of this would go as smoothly as you believe it would.
Any of what?

I'm literally arguing that a revolution in this country would be a cluster fuck with no defined winners.

Anything but smooth.

I just dont think the government would have the handle on the situation that you seem to give them credit for.

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>>42069586
Reliability is a non-issue when you have disposability.

The most dangerous idea humans have ever invented was 'the greater good'.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069590

Nor have you answered the asymmetry of coordination and competence between regime and resistance, especially if insanity works wonders for making perfect supersoldiers who will never go wrong.

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>>42069588
They wouldn't. They certainly would also lose. But they wouldn't be holding punches like you think they would.

If it comes down to do or die, it doesn't matter if you have a baby in one arm and a puppy in the other arm, they WILL murder you.

If the guy they sent to murder you refuses to do it, they will find someone who will, and there will ALWAYS be someone who will.
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>>42069590
If you don't start linking posts you're replying to I'm going to stop replying to you.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069594

>>42069589
There are literally graveyards on either side when revolts break out, and the deaths incurred may only bolster either side's image.

Literally every single ideology has some concept of 'greater good', even if only 'more people will be happy if they adopt this' and it sort of has to in order to ever get popular support anyways.

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>>42069594
Of course. If you're relying on good will of your fellow man to save you when the fighting breaks out, sorry to say but you are a dead man.

Families literally killed each other in the American civil war over differences in beliefs. You think a stranger is going to feel pity for you because you 'have a family' if you're wearing the enemy colors?

Please.

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>>42069591
It really depends on who defects...

If the captain of a nuke subs wife was just killed, because of a botched bombing in a residential town in New Haven CT, might end pretty quick.

And since our military doesn't really have the best track record of bombing the right place... more and more peoples families will be effected and over time, the "Resistance" will look pretty good.

You might be a loner, but most people arnt, and they will have their lives affected by stuff like this.

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>>42069596
>If the captain of a nuke subs wife was just killed, because of a botched bombing in a residential town in New Haven CT, might end pretty quick.

You honestly think they're going to tell him that in mid-mission? Come on now...

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069598

>>42069595
On the flip-side, shared belief has united medieval barbarians who didn't know much else about each other, and the personal profit motive may change alignment the moment said profit does not appear deliverable.

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>>42069598
Anyone who is in it for personal gain will at worst bail and leave the country. They're not going to join the opposing side and fight the good fight.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069600

>>42069599
I thought they would stand to their last breath for the regime?

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>>42069597
Fair point.
Maybe he just happens to agree with the resistance?

I mean, who did he vote for? haha

Prob no one tbh, people at that level of the mil dont really /pol/ or least its seen as uncouth

Just saying, it would be a huge clusterfuck, and the military would be in shambles.

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>>42069601
>who did he vote for?
OR SHE!

IM NO BIGOT!

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>>42069600
The crazy ones will. Hell there are people who still support the Confederacy and they lost years ago.

>>42069600
>>42069601
People in general are self-entitled, self-serving cowards. Look at 9/11. No one on those planes sacrificed themselves to stop the men with guns, even when not doing so meant they were going to die anyway.

Two men vs. 50-60 people and not one of them stood up.

You vastly overestimate humanity.
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Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069604

Hell, groups like the Taliban and ISIS are (fucking horrific and backwards) resistance groups attempting to rule little more than shantytowns and ruins, fighting against the full brunt of the United States with the approval of the rest of the globe...and we're starting to wonder if we lost this one.

>>42069603
Flight 93 and the surprise nature of the rest of the hijackings, and the fact it was way more than two guys, but even still...
WHAT THE FUCK SISTER
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>>42069604
What are you upset about? Truth is not nice. It's not pleasant, and yes it may trigger you sometimes. But it's not going away.

Having faith in humanity is a losing strategy.
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>>42069604
The Talaban and ISIS set up shop in densely populated areas so that if the US tried a full assault the casualties would be unforgivable. Because they are not stupid and know that the US cannot just carpet bomb a bunch of civilians to kill them.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069607

>>42069605
For one, the resistance you said never happened did, and the control of the others are trivially attributable to overpowering force and the shock and fear of an unexplained and inexplicable hijacking.

And this isn't even much of a response, just a gulp of Argumentum ad Edge.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069608

>>42069606
>if we hold infrastructure hostage, the enemy which desires that infrastructure hesitates, how mysterious
>implying we haven't caused umpteen deaths in bombing runs anyways
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>>42069608
It's not the infastructure, it's the PEOPLE inside the infastructure.

They don't care about knocking buildings down. It's about not killing targets the rest of the would would be pissed off at them for killing.

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>>42069603
>People in general are self-entitled, self-serving cowards.
Thats like... you opinion girl.

>Look at 9/11. No one on those planes sacrificed themselves to stop the men with guns, even when not doing so meant they were going to die anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93
pffffffffffft sorry. but that was a BAD example.

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>>42069607
Those people only did anything once they we're told that the flight was on a suicide run and that doing nothing would get them killed anyway.

They only acted once death was guaranteed.

If they had never been told the motives of the highjackers I would bet you money that plane would have hit the capitol.
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>>42069611
>They only acted once death was guaranteed.
But you said thats what they didnt do.
>even when not doing so meant they were going to die anyway.
Honestly, easier to just say "oh forgot that happened, my bad" at this point haha.

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>>42069612
That was bad wording on my part, I admit. But the case still stands that they only acted once they were told inaction would get them killed.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069615

>>42069609
The world governments just want the fighting kept contained and reliable trade to keep flowing, blowing up the means by which anything of value could be produced (and through the right puppets, exported) is rather counter-productive.

>>42069611
Doesn't this then imply that every other flight would have been strong-armed out of the hijackings, only given factual knowledge of what specifically was going on?
For all they knew, they either thought they were headed to Timbuktu or could never overpower the hijackers.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069616

>>42069613
Directly implying the others thought inaction might let them live.

Lisbox!uNItYjss.6Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42069617

>>42069521
my perspective is agreeing with toybox

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>>42069613
I guess. I mean, why would you kill yourself if you thought you might be just on a ride for a little while with some hijackers?

I mean, if they didnt know they were going to die anyway, it would have just been pointless suicide to kill the only people who knew how to fly the plane.

Esp because the terroists were saying they were holding them ransom.

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>>42069617
Fair enough!

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>>42069618
>I guess. I mean, why would you kill yourself if you thought you might be just on a ride for a little while with some hijackers?

>I mean, if they didnt know they were going to die anyway, it would have just been pointless suicide to kill the only people who knew how to fly the plane.


<I guess. I mean, why would you kill yourself if you thought you might be just dealing with shit for a little while with some bad government officials?


<I mean, if they didnt know they were going to die anyway, it would have just been pointless suicide to kill the only people who knew how to run the country.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069621

>>42069620
There being preconditions for successful revolutions is not hot new information to confirm the immortal and eternal nature of turn-of-millennium America.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42069622

>>42069437
>We only have Dicks and Sports Authority here, but Sports Authority i think went under, so just Dicks.

We used to have Sports Authority as well. They went under due to their higher prices for things everybody else had. Dick's sucks. They gave up on scary black guns over two years ago and no one I know will buy ammo from them. National brick and mortar sporting goods retailing is dying.

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>>42069621
I'm saying that most people won't help you unless they have a personal stake in it.

That is how people are. If they think that just obeying the government will keep them safe, they will gladly turn you in the second you talk or revolution because they don't want to die for you or your cause.

Again, you severely overestimate people.

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>>42069623
people will fight back if they have the means to do so

kinda a major point of the 2nd amendment

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>>42069620
You seem to think im in favor of an armed revolution in this country atm, and that couldnt be further from the truth. There is nothing going on atm worth dying for.

But we've been talking a hypothetical situation, and the catalyst has never been set.

So i guess, the flight 93 example kinda proves that when shit gets that dire, people will stand up.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069626

>>42069623
Again, preconditions are not new information, nor is the need for feeling either betrayed or abandoned by what should be a protective institution.

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>>42069624
Mikie, the second amendment doesn't mean jack shit to most people. It's fanfiction that /k/ jerks off to.

The majority of people don't give a fuck.

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>>42069627
You work on a lot of assumptions iit.

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>>42069627
how do you know that?

im not saying it needs to be used now

thats not the point

it's there as a fail safe, really

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>>42069628
My assumptions are based on observation.

I pay close attention to what people do. Not what they say.

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>>42069630
Then your town sucks, because we have very different views on people.

I find it weird that everyone out west that I meet, seems to have this outlook of the entire world being only "shitty selfish people who only care about whats good for them" when in my experience, nothing could be further from the truth.
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>>42069629
It's a fire suppression system that hasn't been tested or updated for 229 years. Sorry if I'm skeptical of it's ability to function at this point.

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>>42069633
And if you were living in a house and the landlord told you that it had a fire suppression system installed but it hadn't been used or updated for 229 years, you would be content that it would function properly if it was actually needed?

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069635

>>42069630
You make up theory based on the subjective testimony of one person (yourself), and never seek to expand your data or provide conditions by which they could be falsified- while denying anything that may falsify them.

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>>42069634
But its not a mechanical item... its an idea...

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>>42069634
rights still function all the same though

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>>42069635
>and never seek to expand your data

False.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069639

>>42069634
A fire not breaking out in 229 years, while at the same time having a very proud fire safety club, would be an attractive location tbh.

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>>42069636
You ever play Telephone, MK?

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>>42069640
Yeah, am i missing the point of your fire suppression analogy?

also this >>42069639
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Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069642

>>42069638
Name me your sources and literature

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>>42069641
I'm saying that ideas can decay over time just as mechanical things do.

What concerns me most is your absolute, unwavering faith in these things that are basically balancing on the words and promises of people.

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>>42069642
If I wanted to rehash the opinions of others I would not bother to form my own.

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>>42069643
what concerns me is your trust in government

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>>42069645
Where did I say I trusted anybody?

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>>42069644
Gathering data, and examining the theories of others, makes up the other half of both good science and good philosophy, otherwise we are left to take a case solely on your word.

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>>42069643
What concerns me is you think i think the 2a is about defeating the government.

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>>42069646
do you trust we the people with them?

idk it seems like you trust government by your argument

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>>42069647
You may not know this, but every time someone posts a link, a video or an image I search for data related to it, including who produced it, who they work for, and what other works they have done. I never take anything posted here at face value.

If you post me an article, I will find the articles source page, find the about section of that page, and google the names of the authors of the articles, then read their biography, views and other works.

If you post a study I will find out who performed it, who funded it, and what the goals and ideals of those funders are.

What do YOU do, Mac?
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>>42069646
Honestly, whenever we talk guns, it always seems to boil down to you simply saying that no person on earth is trustworthy, and you have to understand that is your personal opinion and not a very compelling argument of why the 2a is a decayed idea

In fact if anything, its an argument of why its not.

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>>42069649
I don't trust anybody with anything. I thought I made that clear.

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>>42069652
okay fine so tell your state leave gun owners alone

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>>42069653
Your under the impression I trust them to actually listen to me or care about what I have to say.

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>>42069654
well we do care about rights

you may not but we do

giving them power only weakens you and everyone else

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>>42069655
I don't give them anything.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069657

Trusting the world order to remain a constant no matter what is a mistake that only the last few emperors make before shitting their bed.

>>42069650
I've (hopefully likewise as with you...) read through literature, book or otherwise, and sought out what hot drama was behind it.
This is quite an interesting take, however, given the number of times you've eschewed literature and academia in favor of your hunches and gut-feelings, sometimes with their motive, real or alleged, used to dismiss even cases that may resemble theirs, which doesn't make for a proper refutation or good scholarship.

>>42069652
>>42069654
An inverted trust, a trust that one will always do the wrong thing, is not a proper skepticism.
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>>42069656
yes you do actually

by being submissive and compliant only fuels the fire

you day voting is pointless

for the presidential election sure

but the mid terms no it means a lot

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>>42069654
I get that you are a lone survivor who sucks dick in self defense
which is awesome btw :D
Edit:
seriously... i would watch that movie/show haha

But that's just you. Saying a right is worthless because it doesn't apply to you is selfish, so you are kind of lumping yourself in with the people you say are selfish, which i guess is everyone.
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>>42069657
>I've (hopefully likewise as with you...) read through literature, book or otherwise, and sought out what hot drama was behind it.

Not interested. Again, I care about what people do. What they say is irrelevant. People can lie, so their words are meaningless to me.
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>>42069659
I didn't say it was worthless. I said it is perched atop promises and faith. Two things I don't gamble with.

It is better to live as if rights don't exist and play along that they do, because that way if they are ever taken away you have lost nothing.
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>>42069660
Everyone attempts to describe action, and leaves behind a record of what they themselves did.
Theories may be dead-wrong, half-right, or a reliable standard. Judgement of truth or falsity can only be made by engaging them and the world they pointed at, and discerning what holds to merciless scrutiny and what falters.

>>42069661
Rights are only ever substantiated by a balance of force; this revelation you would appear to agree with has previously outed me as an edgelord, curiously.

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>>42069662
Humans are creatures of bias and their language and motives reek of bias.

The only way to squeeze truth out of anything anyone says is to test it against multiple opposing views that would not agree unless it was irrefutable fact.

This is a process that requires constantly refining data down to it's raw form before accepting any of it.

If you just read books and articles and expect to get truth, you will live in a world of delusion where you surround yourself only with things you want to hear.

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>>42069661
>It is better to live as if rights don't exist and play along that they do, because that way if they are ever taken away you have lost nothing.
See, im the opposite, I say, live as if right always exist and play along that they dont because that way if they are ever taken away, you have lost nothing.

Something I've noticed when we talk, is that we almost always agree with the how, but not the why.

Like we come to the same conclusions from the polar opposite reasoning.

its weird.

I love it

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069665

How is it that we finally found an issue where my SJW ass is in the same camp the lolberts are in, good lord.

>>42069663
Where did I say to swallow everything?
Literally a good 1/3rd of my remarks there are to the contrary.

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>>42069665
>lolberts
a what?

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>>42069666
>420
>69
>666
<asking about a political word

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>>42069665
Because you are in the same camp as nearly everyone I deal with. "What's your source? Who told you that?" You want my source, look out the nearest window.

I observe people. Not just the ones near me. It's what I do. It's what I've done since I was five years old. Humans lie. They pretend. They hide things. You can't trust what they say because what they say is meant to create a bias towards them. You have to observe them. How they act. How they react. How different stimuli is processed through their world view and then use that data to deconstruct their entire thought process so you can remove all the filters and find the information you are looking for.

This is what I do. This is how I function.

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>>42069667
Now im just more confused.

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>>42069666
>lolberts
its a term for low dunning kruger people to disregard freedom
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>>42069668
You have your own biases, prejudices and cognitive distortions; we all do, and your/our suspicions cannot themselves be trusted as gospel.

>>42069670
Libertarian, slang term for that area of the political spectrum.

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>>42069671
>low dunning kruger people
The rabbit hole keeps getting deeper..

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>>42069672
If you think I didn't discover my own filters first and foremost you are quite mistaken.

I know exactly where they are, what they are, and what they do, and when I'm being serious, I make sure I compensate for them.
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>>42069672
>Libertarian, slang term for that area of the political spectrum.
which area of the political spectrum?

... i think ill just look it up haha.

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>>42069674
If you think you transcend your own biases and preferences, directly perceiving the truth in undeniable entirety, you are wronger than any theorist that ever walked the earth.

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>>42069675
lolbert-
Short for lolbertarian...
A play on Libertarian...

Okay, now i got it, thank you internet.

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>>42069676
Try me.

Why the fuck do you think I get in so many arguments like this? Because people assume that I have a bias of some fashion.

Do I want the shit ass government to be in charge? Fuck no. Do I wish an armed revolution can fix things? Of course.

Are either of those two things even remotely realistic? No. So despite what I WANT to be true, I accept what IS true. People don't like that because they think I want all the horrible shit I claim as fact to actually be true, which I don't. I have absolutely no control over what is and what isn't, and sometimes what is happens to be shit I really don't like.

If you say you're going to climb a tree and statistically your chances of success are less than 10% I'm going to tell you that you will probably fail. Not because I WANT you to fail, but because fact doesn't care about what I want.
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>>42069673
people who think their causes are more the best isnt isnt new

and people who think they're smarter than others usually arent

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>>42069678
Fact of the matter, in cruel irony, is that our feelings direct not just our motivation, but also our perceptual priorities and favored assumptions, forever tainting both our immediate and longer-term thought in ways that only rigorous examination has any inkling of (maybe) clearing up for us.

I may be rude here, but seriously, you yourself have a hostile stance towards concepts of pro-social behavior between humans, having been viciously abused in childhood and then feeling the brunt of social alienation in adulthood, perhaps granting you a pervasively pessimistic stance out of ingrained fear and the too-human need to still feel a sense of comprehension and closure.

In a manner of speaking, nobody is free of sin, and I am sure that others can analyze the world and its contents in their own way too. The point being that we cannot do such a task justice while within either a vacuum or by assuming that pain or opposites are reliable indicators of truth.

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>>42069680
>Fact of the matter, in cruel irony, is that our feelings direct not just our motivation, but also our perceptual priorities and favored assumptions, forever tainting both our immediate and longer-term thought in ways that only rigorous examination has any inkling of (maybe) clearing up for us.

I'm aware of all this.

>I may be rude here, but seriously, you yourself have a hostile stance towards concepts of pro-social behavior between humans, having been viciously abused in childhood and then feeling the brunt of social alienation in adulthood, perhaps granting you a pervasively pessimistic stance out of ingrained fear and the too-human need to still feel a sense of comprehension and closure.


You haven't found it a tiny bit odd that despite the fact that I constantly talk about how horrible everything is, how I don't trust people, and despite my history of abuse that I'm usually constantly upbeat, silly, supportive and nice to basically everyone?
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>>42069681
Then it strikes me as good advice to never assume that one has transcended their own biases and comprehended the world in an entirely factual manner, especially without the aid of eons of criticism between others making their own hot takes.

You were only born with a mismatching brain, not one completely alien to other humans, even after years of an antisocial environment. The fact of that matter is that, barring literal malformations or damages, we follow a psychological design shaped by evolution to look upon others who offered their friendship instead of their competition and to be pleased by their good fate.

You have spoken of serving others and thus attaining a usefulness; although colored by your experiences and inner drives, it is derived not from madness, but from a social drive that was in you the entire time.

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>>42069683
I'm not saying I don't have any bias. I do. I just know what it is and know how to put it aside if I have to.

I know it sounds like a whole 'blah blah blah I'm special' line of bullshit and I agree fully that it does. However I have yet to find another person on this Earth with a similar viewpoint and ability to shut off their bias at will. If you can show me I'm wrong I would gladly accept it.
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>>42069687
That is just the problem, you can no more set aside bias itself and analyze the world without it, than a machine may set aside electricity and compute without it.

You may gaze out of your skull and see a phenomenon seemingly granted the name "true reality", yet it would not even register as such if you could not attach that sensation to the concepts of truth or reality, and you could not make such connections or have even discovered the very ideas of truth or reality, let alone their common contradictions against our feelings, if there were no inner impetus within you to value some sensations over another and thus seek information useful to bringing one sensation over another.

The defeat of bias is only ever approached, but never reached, and turning the seeking of 'good' sensations against its own coloration of perception will only make for the beginning of such an approach, one further assisted by scrutiny from others, and by scrutiny others have done between one another and over the eons, because they were all set to the same task we were and were sometimes courteous enough to leave behind their collected work.

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>>42069691
I'm not going to lie, I'm having a really hard time understanding what it is you're trying to say here.

Also, the first computers were mechanical. They required no electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_computer
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>>42069692
To reiterate and simplify, you cannot escape bias and distortions entirely, as these result from the very forces that compel you to do anything at all, and you would be a comatose vegetable otherwise.

The warping and twisting that comes with our judgments are reduced by first valuing hard truth enough that we can be skeptical of anything we see in the first place, and then engaging likewise with a world that has juggled around thoughts we undoubtedly have touched on ourselves, being mindful however that no picture is ever taken perfectly.

...Also, way to comically miss the point of that analogy.

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>>42069693
It's like a pair of glasses, Mac. Wearing glasses doesn't fix your eyes. What it does is warp what you see in such a way that it counteracts the distortion that naturally occurs in your eye.

If you can learn where the distortions are, you can craft corrective lenses to compensate.

So I'm not saying I have 20/20 vision when it comes to the world, just that I have made corrective lenses to help me see it better.

>...Also, way to comically miss the point of that analogy.


Can you blame me when you constantly chastise me for "not doing any research"? It's an irony I cannot pass up.

Though I think you also missed the point of my response: Just because you think something is impossible doesn't mean it actually is.
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>>42069622
>We used to have Sports Authority as well. They went under due to their higher prices for things everybody else had. Dick's sucks. They gave up on scary black guns over two years ago and no one I know will buy ammo from them. National brick and mortar sporting goods retailing is dying.
Yeah I remember when dicks did away with the ARs, even the benelli m4 and stuff.
Lame
What a bunch of Dicks.

Honestly, didnt their stock like plummet after that?

Sorry, i almost lost your response in the wash.

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I just bought one of those blemished 700 dollar off Galil ACE's in 7.62x39 from Classic Firearms, nigga, and I didn't even feel bad.

I'll share it when it comes in the mail.

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>>42069694
Every lenses will absorb light and distort paths taken, much as any human mind will simplify information and draw connections in a manner prioritized around whichever sensations seem to surround it. A huge problem here, is that we must create a corrective lenses, when we cannot figure out what we should be seeing instead, and seeing without distortions would seem to contradict our own psychology.

The problems raised appear to be unaddressed, suffice for the mere assertion that it is just possible to be so self-aware that objective reality can be seen.

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>>42069702
I don't know why but every time you get philosophical its like trying to read a sentence built by just hitting one of the 'suggested words' on a phone.

You can communicate fine normally but whenever you talk about this stuff the things you say are next to impossible to understand.

I'm not trying to rag on you, I just literally cannot understand half of what you just said.

For example:
>Every lenses will absorb light and distort paths taken, much as any human mind will simplify information and draw connections in a manner prioritized around whichever sensations seem to surround it.

What in hell are you even saying here? It's a word salad.

>Every lenses will absorb light and distort paths taken


I'm going to assume you're trying to say that distorting something that is already distorted isn't the same as seeing something clearly, and you would be correct.

>much as any human mind will simplify information and draw connections in a manner prioritized around whichever sensations seem to surround it.


My absolute best guess here is that you are basically trying to say that the human mind is designed to translate information in such a way that it filters out anything it deems unnecessary to it's objectives, and it does this without people realizing that information is being thrown away, so recovering that information is impossible since you never even knew it was there to begin with.

I have no idea if I'm getting any of this right though because I for the life of me am struggling to translate this.

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>>42069713
Not even gonna lie

I gotta side with toy here

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>>42069713
Odd, I find him the most lucid writer on the site and even try to emulate him when I can.

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>>42069713
>>Every lenses will absorb light and distort paths taken
Everyone has their own perspective.

>>much as any human mind will simplify information and draw connections in a manner prioritized around whichever sensations seem to surround it.

Their perspective will influence their opinon.
_______
Also, police trade in Winchester defenders on sportmansguide for $299 atm. Thinking about grabbing one.

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>>42069724
Honestly I understand what he is saying too.

It just seems too over-the-top and umnneacry.

>>42069725
Not a bad price.

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>>42069726
He takes the long way around for sure.

Its a scattergat iv always wanted. Shotguns are my favorite, wish i had money.

Could just indebt myself further.

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I found a Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.

a lost pony !piNKiEPie.Country code: ponies-derpy.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069734

>>42069731
Wowsie that things really cute.

What's the rail on the bottom, does it attach to a shoulder stock?

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>>42069734
Nah, its just the palm swell extending farther than the frame.

Putting a stock on that would be a 10 year $250,000 felony, and i doubt anyone would waste the time and money to register a supermatic trophy as an NFA item haha.

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>>42069734
The High Standard pistol line was pretty much based on the 1950's Sci Fi ascetic. What people thought guns would look like in the 21st century.

Models built by the original company in the 60's are very affordable due to the connection to what happened later when the company changed hands several times.

Here's a more in-depth look at vintage HS pistols.
The High Standard 22 Auto Pistol: Differences Between Models & Use With Suppressors

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so the ATF is going to make bumpstocks illegal because they say it counts as a machine guns

even though it doesnt lol

does that mean a finger is too?

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>>42069767
>so the ATF is going to make bumpstocks illegal
Seems to me that they are being directed by the POTUS to do something they have stated many times, they dont want to do.

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>>42069769
both POTUS AND the NRA even

another reason why the NRA is lame

it's one of the main reasons if i was going to join a pro-gun group it would be the GOA

not the NRA

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Bumpfire stocks are fucking gay, and in principle, I should be angry they're being regulated, but I seriously lack the ability to care about it at all for how much of a useless novelty they are.

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>>42069770
ATF has been trying to stall this like they stalled the "ban" on armor peircing rifle rounds (which they did successfully).

But the president wont let it go, he wants to say "i passed gun control when Obama couldn't"

Its a shame, because no one in the Tech department of ATF agrees with this, and it makes them look like assholes that they ruled one way, and some politician is telling them "nah man, thats totes a machine gun! i mean it go pewpewpew"

>>42069771
>angry they're being regulated
Banned.
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>>42069771
i have no care for them at all

it's just the fact our president is pushing for it

the same guy who said he would fight for our right

>>42069772
well, so far president trump has passed more control than obama

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>>42069771
Also, yes, bumpstocks were a stupid waste of money, destroyed your gun, and were useless.

The fact is though, if the wording of such a ban isnt careful, it would easily be interpreted down the road to be a ban on semiautomatics, adjustable stocks, and competition triggers.

A lot of state laws have said "any device that increases the rate of fire"
or
"with a sliding stock"

A lighter trigger could, an adjustable stock slides.

I mean hell, a gas port increases the rate of fire.

I'm very curious on how they will word this, because without an act of congress, they cant call it a machine gun, because it doesn't fit the legal definition.

>>42069773
Obama actually expanded gun rights by lifting the CCW ban in national parks. Thats about all he did.

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>>42069774
>I'm very curious on how they will word this, because without an act of congress, they cant call it a machine gun, because it doesn't fit the legal definition.
this is the very issue i take with the ATF

in this case they may have no wanted to pass this ban

but fact the president can pretty much force them to do is the problem

it just seems to me that handing that kind of power to 3 letter agencies seems really dangerous

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>>42069775
>it just seems to me that handing that kind of power to 3 letter agencies seems really dangerous
They have no power, they are beholden to the politicians.

This will most likely be a Trump executive order that they have to hold their nose and enforce. Its not the agencies fault, its the Presidents.

Again, we wont know what to think until we read it.

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2oCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42069777

>>42069773
Our president also said that the government should be able to take your guns away from you without probable cause to believe you have committed or will commit a crime. That's actually pretty radical and shouldn't be taken likely. The only half comforting thing is that Trump has everything to lose on a re-election by going any further, and he certainly won't win the favor of many.

>>42069775
The NRA could take it to court and win, but they won't. None of this is supposed to make sense anyway.

>>42069774
I don't disagree with anything you said. The idea that gun grabbers also want to redefine what a "parts kit" is and ban their sale, purchase, or possession is as unfair as it is asinine. I'm starting to believe these people don't have any genuine concern about saving lives. They just hate the idea that people are able to be armed.
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>>42069776
im just saying this makes it seem like the executive branch has more power than the legislative branch

this stuff is wonky

>>42069777
the NRA is actually in support of this

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>>42069777
>Our president also said that the government should be able to take your guns away from you without probable cause to believe you have committed or will commit a crime.
Yeah, I've said from day 1 that Trump was anti gun, the thing is, he put himself in a position that made me feel "safe" with him, while with Hillary it was a sure thing.
His stance on firearms has always been that of the "NYC Liberal" that he is.

He also displayed Dianne Feinsteins corpse next to him while he said this, which was sickening.

>The NRA could take it to court and win, but they won't. None of this is supposed to make sense anyway.

The NRA is still the FUDD "scary black guns! its about hunting!" org they were from the 80's. The only difference is they are trying to "fellow kids" us with their new stance on AR15s.
Reagan and the NRA ruined everything, and put us in the position we are in.

>I'm starting to believe these people don't have any genuine concern about saving lives.

>starting to...
Haha. sorry. No, they dont give a fuck, this is about political points and fear. They dont actually give a fuck, or else they would be teaching gun safety in public schools.

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>>42069779
>im just saying this makes it seem like the executive branch has more power than the legislative branch
It does. Thats what the patriot act did, and it only expanded under Obama.

Thats why these "executive orders" are getting way the fuck out of control.

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>>42069782
and that's honestly really horrifying

ron_paul_is_this_america.avi

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>>42069780
GOA > NRA

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>>42069784
I rag on the "NRA" a lot, but really its the ILA I have problems with.

Colion Noir is the NRA

Lawyers, crooked lobbyists and suits are the ILA.

Ted Nuget is a fuck-up.

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>>42069785
colion noir is the only person there with any sort of sanity

at least to me

sadly people like him dont really influence the NRA as much as people would think

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>>42069786
The NRA is the education, sportsmanship, and community branch.

The ILA is the legal branch.

The ILA is the ones who decide "where to fight" while the NRA just keeps trying to make safe, responsible gun owners, and keep the sport alive.

Colion Noir is trying to bridge the gap, and i love him for that.
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>>42069787
well, i sure hope he does bridge the gap

a lost pony !piNKiEPie.Country code: ponies-derpy.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069792

>>42069780
>teaching gun safety in public schools

>teaching

>in public schools

>>42069743
Not that i would want to, but adding a stock to a pistol that doesn't have one from the manufacturer is a ten year felony really? How does that work? Is it full auto or something?

Also do those fancy grips actually help with accuracy or just look "futuristic"?

>>42069757
Interesting, thx!

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>>42069792
>Not that i would want to, but adding a stock to a pistol that doesn't have one from the manufacturer is a ten year felony really? How does that work?
Short answer:
By law, anything with a stock is a "rifle" and any rifle with less than a 16" barrel is a felony.

So in this case, if you attached a stock, you will have created a rifle with a 7" barrel.

Long answer:
You can acquire a tax stamp to own a short barreled rifle from the federal government. It costs $200 and the item needs to be registered with ATF. There is paperwork to fill out and a 6 month waiting period (on average) before you are allowed to take it home.

If you cross a state border with it without alerting ATF, its a felony.

And some states (like mine) have and out and out ban, so even if i satisfied all the federal requirements, it would still be a felony to possess it in my state.

Exemptions are made for historical and "antique" firearms, for example, some German Lugers that had stocks, and Mauser broom-handles (han solos gun).

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>>42069792
>Not that i would want to, but adding a stock to a pistol that doesn't have one from the manufacturer is a ten year felony really? How does that work? Is it full auto or something?
>
>Also do those fancy grips actually help with accuracy or just look "futuristic"?

There are some loopholes regarding pistols that can be converted to carbines. The Luger, Mauser C96 and Browning High Power have lugs that take stocks and are perfectly legal today. It has something to do with the year the gun was built and how wide the adaption of such an accessory was.

As for the custom pistol grip, that's strictly a target shooter's option. I've seen .22 Olympic target pistols sold with two sets of un-carved blank grips. You carve them to your specific hand size. I've never felt the need for such customization but have seen them in use with success at matches. The same holds true for adding weights to the barrel to promote a better balance as well as mass for keeping the sights on target in competition.

/edit

I forgot about the Thompson Center G2 Contender rifle/pistol system. They had to go to court over their right to build a gun that could be both a single shot pistol and rifle in modular legal barrel lengths. They won and the system is still legal without a tax stamp.

https://www.tcarms.com/firearms/interchangeable-platforms/t-c-g2contender-complete-pistol-rifle-firearms
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>>42069795
>I forgot about the Thompson Center G2 Contender rifle/pistol system. They had to go to court over their right to build a gun that could be both a single shot pistol and rifle in modular legal barrel lengths. They won and the system is still legal without a tax stamp.
It is still not legal to have a pistol barrel on the receiver at the same time as a stock with out a tax stamp.

You can turn a pistol into a rifle, and back into a pistol, but you cant turn a rifle into a pistol and back into a rifle.

Its why many people build AR15 "pistols" so it can be both.

Its extremely dumb.

Its also why you can convert your glock into a carbine, and back into a pistol.

But the carbine must have a 16" barrel and be 26" in over all length, as dose the T/C contender when stocked.

Edit
This was to expand on your point, not refute it.
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a lost pony !piNKiEPie.Country code: ponies-derpy.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42069803

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>>42069794
>>42069795

I wonder who these highly technical regulations are supposed to protect, and how many hobbyists are accidentally felons who cant have guns or vote anymore because they played in their garages without doing the research first.

Trixie is best rap god

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>>42069803
government

making everything complicated since forever

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>>42069803
Well, that is an issue. Its why gun companies make barrels that 16.5" (shotguns 18.5 because a shotgun barrel needs to be 18" with a 26" OAL)
So that if you drop the thing and chip the end of the barrel, you dont become a felon.

Its all the 1936 National Firearms Act that set these laws. Thats why these things are called "NFA items"
Suppressors and vertical forgrips were involved in this too.

Its all for the same reasons that you see today, nothing has changed, its a knee jerk reaction to the times.

"Short barrel" rifles and shotguns because of Bonny and Clyde.

Machine guns because of the valentines day massacre in Chicago.

Vertical for-grips on a pistol because of John Dillinger.

Gangster movies and the media drove the gun legislation at the time, just like video games and "mass shootings" drive it now.
None of it is science, which is why people who know about guns are angry.

Its also why we rag on cali so much, its not because we hate california, or people from california, but because it seems the goal is to make gun laws so confusing that you dont know if your a felon or not, and firearms so unusable, that people will be too scared to enjoy the sport in the first place. They know they cant ban all guns, which is what the politicians said they would do if they could, so this is the next best way.

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>>42069879
>Its all for the same reasons that you see today, nothing has changed, its a knee jerk reaction to the times.
well before the 1930's barely anyone even cared

i mean yeah, it's been challenged since forever but always understood for the most part

suddenly when people misuse arms they all the sudden forget what the amendment says and try to misinterpret it to the best of their ability

that's why i dont think it's a good idea to give them ANYTHING
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it's just like...

>NFA

<happy now?
not enough
>gun control act of 1968
<okay, slow down a bit now
NOT ENOUGH AND WHAT DOES "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED MEAN AGAIN?"
>Hughes Amendment
<...what else do you want now?
MORE LAWS
>brady law
<are you done?
NO SOMETHING HAS HAPPEND MORE GUN CONTROL

it goes on and no and on

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>>42069888
>well before the 1930's barely anyone even cared
Before the 1930's there were not "Talkies" to go to, and news reels to make money on, and no prohibition to make criminal enterprises.

I think that has a lot to do with it, between city folks being influenced by movies and news reels, people just saw life for what it was, and guns for what they were.

Now everything is hyped because the news needs to make a buck, and misinformed because movies and games are most peoples "education" on the subject.

And its not just guns, this problem permiates to all things, which is why gun owners are normally pro small government, even if they wern't to start, because if they can get guns so wrong, and make decisions that effect people lives in such ignorance about something we have knowledge of, I assume they are doing that for all topics.

>>42069889
>it goes on and no and on
There have been great strides in the past century or so as far as gun ownership and gun freedom, but it will be a never ending battle, freedom is a never ending battle.

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>>42069890
i want small government simply because it seems to be everything they touch it turns to dust

i just wish government was only left to deal with violent criminals and foreign invaders

people like to make fun of the NAP

but honestly, it's the most sane route there is

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>>42069892
I love naps!

But seriously, what is the NAP?

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>>42069893
i means where you can do pretty much whatever you want so long as you arent harming another person or their property

so if someone wants to do drugs all day they can

they're harming themselves not others

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>>42069894
Oh, then yeah I'm pretty much down with that. Problem is, what is "harming others" is a matter of opinion and not really black and white.

Guns and drugs are really good examples, because both are things that if used responsibly and personally, they don't harm anyone else, but can have an impact on other people if in the hands of a shitty person.

This is why in theory im okay with regulations, but every year they push me farther away from that opinion with the non-stop demands for pseudo science.

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>>42069895
i believe everything should be treated with responsibility

i just dont trust a load of bureaucrats to dictate how these things should be handled

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>>42069896
>i just dont trust a load of bureaucrats to dictate how these things should be handled
Yeah, nether do I. Freedom is risk, but its no mistake the the freest societies tend to be the safest as well.

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>>42069899
i honestly believe it's freedom that makes places so safe

people look our for one another more than government ever does

these hurricanes we've had only proves that point further

you see people go through hell and back to help another out

and they do it far quicker and more efficient than government

you will find people on the grills making others meals before the national guard even gets there
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>>42069900
Yeah, people who actually care for one another will always be a better source of support in times of crisis.

Government looks at you like a number, your neighbor looks at you like a person.

Not saying that having 2 levels of support is a bad thing, but i would really only trust myself and my friends and family to actually be of any use.

I just think its funny that places that have more feel good "gun control" tend to also have more violent gun crime. I dont know how direct the correlation is, but it it definitely there.

Both sides can twist the numbers any way they want though, so really I think it comes down to a philosophical argument.

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>>42069902
>I dont know how direct the correlation is, but it it definitely there.
it's no doubt there

you can see it in plain reality

see, people in rural areas or even small cities have gun problems

it's just drug issues if anything

but in the cities gang violence is through the roof which is almost ignored on the national level

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>>42069903
>but in the cities gang violence is through the roof which is almost ignored on the national level
I think its because its a complicated issue that one law wont be able to solve, and it would take years of hard work to even begin to solve the problems of the inner cities, and even then, there will never be a "solution" to human nature... not a moral one anyway.

And that, my friend, doesn't focus group well haha.
So why bring it up? Its much easier to say "we will solve violence by banning adjustable stocks! Vote for me!"

Or

"We will make sure no one is poor with this one program! Vote for me!"

So real, tangible problems that need to be looked at and worked on continuously with no real finality, will never be a national issue.

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>>42069905
bah, that's what pisses me of about politicians

they never ever look at a real solution

they just say pretty much those lines and people eat it right up

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>>42069906
Yup, its why I think poverty will never be eliminated, its way too good of a carrot to dangle.

"These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference."
-LBJ to Richard Russell, a fellow Senator, from Georgia, discussing the civil right acts.

I don't think much has changed.
And its not just Blacks ether, its how they look at all of us.
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>>42069911
it's actually really sad to see the state of politics being this way

while sad

not surprising

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>>42069913
Politics has become a buisness for personal gain, and we are just the consumer.

Its why i think its funny that people who are all like "Corporations maaaaannnnn, there so evil!"
Want more government.

Corporations might drive government, but they at least dont have the final say over us, but when politicians are in it JUST for votes, they will only do the bear minimum to keep people voting for them, and if they don't have a problem, or admit a problem is more complicated then they have made it sound, they wont get our money... err... votes.... err... both.

Its not about running society, its about staying in power. A society with divisive problems is the perfect situation for our current political situation to benefit from, so, its doubtful it will change.

At least without more good people getting involved, but again, who would want to be involved?
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>>42069914
>Corporations might drive government, but they at least dont have the final say over us, but when politicians are in it JUST for votes, they will only do the bear minimum to keep people voting for them, and if they don't have a problem, or admit a problem is more complicated then they have made it sound, they wont get our money... err... votes.... err... both.
ive said this for year and absolutely agree

corporations can be shit in their own way but they dont have the least' bit of control over me

meanwhile government can ruin your life

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>>42069915
Yup, and government uses just as much advertising, just as many backroom deals, just as much hiding of assets and lies.

But i dont have to buy nikes, but i am liable to be put in a cage for not obeying government.

Which is why, when laws are made in ignorance, its a real problem.

Again, look at marijuana. Millions of lives ruined, not by the substance, but by the laws governing it. Pretty much everyone agrees with that, yet, they should have more power?

I dont understand how people think thats okay.

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>>42069916
this is why i say laws should be made only to deal violent offenders

laws for others things are fine but for fucks sake

make the punishments reasonable and just

like you said, you can get in serious trouble just for having a green planet

ill take big greedy corporations that i dont have to spend money on than the shit government does any day

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRoCountry code: ponies-twilight.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070005

Tell me about the funniest weapon ever devised.

!ScyphTlOY6Country code: ponies-pinkie.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070006

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>>42070005
Of contemporary fare, the double tap.

Read the MFG info on the receiver... why did they have to specify it was made on Earth? haha.

Ether that or, was it Spikes Tactical that made all the AR lowers with "Poop" in the serial numbers, so peoples federal books had to have the word "poop" in them?... that was pretty damn funny haha.

Edit:
It was Palmetto State Armory
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-stripped-poop-flinging-gremlin-lower-receiver.html
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>>42070005
Shotgun shells loaded with rock salt. They don't seem funny at face value, but you'll understand once you use them on squatters and hippies trespassing on your property in search of mushrooms.

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>>42070007
What? AR15 lowers called the "Poop flinging goblin" with POOP in the serial number too low-brow for this crowd?
Thats some funny shit right there haha.

>>42070064
I have shotgun shells loaded with wild flower seeds so when you shoot, you are also planting wild flowers haha.

Also, i have confetti rounds so my shotgun is a party cannon.
they are a felony in CT, Pinky Pie would be serving 10 years and face a 10,000 dollar fine haha

>>42070119
I've always wanted one of these! But im pretty sure they are NFA... Short barrel.

UUUGGGGGHHHHHHHHH haha
This post was edited by its author on .

!ScyphTlOY6Country code: ponies-pinkie.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070230

>>42070064
No those are for ghosts.

a lost pony !piNKiEPie.Country code: ponies-derpy.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070237

File: 1544187177155.jpg (15.27 KB, 210x240, fluttershy-my-little-pony-the-…)

>>42070119
Omigosh so cute

>>42070134
>ponk criminally insane

Oh, yeeahh baby. Thats why she's my #one.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070267

OK, let's talk about your last visit to a gun counter and asked to finger fuck a dream gun.

I walked up to a used gun counter where an employee was stocking new acquisitions in a case. He turned to me with a sly look on his face and handed me a used SIG 1911 clone.

He said to work the slide. Seeing there was no magazine in the gun, I turned it in a safe direction and worked the slide.

It was fucking heaven! I'd never experienced such a combination of ease of use and smoothness! So fucking worth the price for that build quality alone. If I were to buy a Colt 1911 clone, I'd drop the money on a used SIG.
This post was edited by its author on .

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2oCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070271

File: 1544210729937.gif (816.52 KB, 500x500, fb28834f9533fab9240fd958fed017…)

>>42070230
You're right fam.

I meant to say shells loaded with vials of jizz, so I can blast criminals with my cum shots.

Country code: ponies-octavia.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070272

File: 1544211085813.jpg (43.74 KB, 679x720, Double_Latte_by_jollyjack.jpeg)

>>42070007
>Read the MFG info on the receiver... why did they have to specify it was made on Earth? haha.

Probably wanting their gun to be used to fend off the eventual alien invasion, and they want that damn alien scum to know they were destroyed by guns manufactured on Earth.

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070279

File: 1544218465323.png (340.36 KB, 784x652, 6625412.PNG)

>>42070267
Been a long time since I handled a firearm that impressed me, but recently i played with a pair of custom Remington 700s that had Timney triggers.
Boy... I could dry fire those all day. Just thinking about pressing it and the trigger let it go, crisp, solid, soooo nice.

Was an RR prefix rem, so I wouldnt want it in my safe, esp because the safety didnt work correctly and would fuck everything up because remington cant make a gun to save their life.
But
I want that trigger.
I have a little model of an accutrigger that was for display that i keep on my desk and pull every once in a while because its just nice to pull a good trigger haha.

Also, all 1911's are clones unless John Browning himself crafted it by hand, naked.

The Sig 1911s are pretty damn nice though, and the only Sig I've looked at the price tag and said "thats fair" haha.

>>42070271
Good way to combine hobbies.

>>42070272
Thats what i figure. Or they are so optimistic about gun rights and space colonization that they want to stay ahead of the curve.

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070289

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Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2oCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070337

File: 1544250201662.jpg (21.75 KB, 580x332, 1544249069400.jpg)

Dear diary,

Today I learned that the design of the SKS was scaled down from an anti-tank rifle.

That's pretty neat.

SnowbellCountry code: ponies-luna.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070361

File: 1544282763357.jpg (76.53 KB, 1000x720, c18121cf74767dc2b46e2ea83784c1…)

>>42070337

The PTRS-41 anti-tank rifle. I once started a meme in COD Nazi Zombies of calling it the "Whale Gun" because there's a picture of couple Soviet sailors allegedly shooting at a whale floating about the internet somewhere. The Soviets started fielding PTRS and PTRD AT rifles in order to give Infantry some anti-armor capability as part of their defense in depth strategy. The idea was that when the Germans German armor and mechanized units would penetrate an area dug-in and concealed infantry would then pop up and engage armored vehicles from the flanks with AT rifles, AT grenades and molotov cocktails. They proved so effective that the Germans started mounting spaced armor to the vehicles in order to defeat the 14.5mm cartridge. Even the flanks of the Panther were vulnerable to it.

Country code: ponies-glimglam.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070375

File: 1544301314014.png (522.8 KB, 747x768, 432432443656.png)

damn this would be fun!

Automatic fire vs. semi-automatic fire

>ban the AR-15!!!!

okay, you're right we should have the M4/M16's instead
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SnowbellCountry code: ponies-luna.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070392

File: 1544318869932.jpg (61.23 KB, 608x960, s-l1600.jpg)

Anybody seen Hands lately? I just bought a woodland camo Chaplain's field stole from one of the guys on usmilitaria forums for my collection and I thought he might appreciate such a thing.

Am working on finding/assembling a complete Chaplain's Catholic field kit for my collection. I have most of the consumables portion. The bibles, hymnals and rosaries but lack the pouch for them and still need to find the rest of the service kit. The chalice, crucifix, anointing oil, etc. and the pouch for it.

Country code: ponies-glimglam.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070393

File: 1544319029623.png (138.6 KB, 299x386, 54768769879.png)

>>42070392
nah, hands decided to leave permanently

simple because he wants to

didnt entirely have a reason besides that

SnowbellCountry code: ponies-luna.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070396

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>>42070393

Yeah I remember, but I figured one of y'all might have kept track him some other way like DIscord or whatever.

Plus few who say they're leaving actually do.

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070407

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>>42070392
I love that EDRL. There is a blotch in the pattern that looks like a fox with a big lump on its back, and its looking back at it concerned.

See if you can find it and see what im talking about haha.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070463

File: 1544383136346.png (1.24 MB, 960x960, 1544113215104.png)

Forgotten Weapons got their one millionth YT subscriber this week.

One Million Subscriber Special! The French 75 - Guns, Drinks, and Shirts!

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070531

File: 1544483564018.png (656.84 KB, 1474x619, 590a1.PNG)

I want this really bad, but...

MSRP is $900 FUCKING DOLLARS!

They will probably retail for around $700.

If you pay 700 for a 590 you are out of your mind. I dont care how nice the stock looks.

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070532

File: 1544484065450.png (1.21 MB, 1508x553, carry a big stick.PNG)

Also wouldnt mind this tbh.

Its pretty useless without a sig brace.

More of a pretty 14" barrel holder. Keeping it warm until we are free again.

NoonimCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070611

>>42070531
Important question is, can it be slamfired?

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070613

File: 1544547448273.png (120.82 KB, 305x278, drt67.PNG)

>>42070611
I dont know of any modern shotgun that can be slamfired.

Its kind of seen as a design flaw.

NoonimCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070617

>>42070613
What's the point of a trench shotgun that doesn't slamfire
This post was edited by its author on .

Country code: ponies-octavia.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070621

File: 1544558025386.png (356.82 KB, 819x363, ZVZzcxz.png)

>>42070613
>Its kind of seen as a design flaw
YET WAVEDASHING ISN'T?! HMMM?!

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070623

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>>42070617
>What's the point of a trench shotgun that doesn't slamfire
What's he point of a trench shotgun.

Though, i went to pick up a friend at the gunsmith today, and the guy had and old Ithaca riot, that one slamfires, and they can be had cheap if its something you see as a feature.

>>42070621
LMAO!
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

NoonimCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070625

>>42070623
>What's he point of a trench shotgun
Slamfire, obviously.

I need to get me one, but, I kind of don't have Good excuse, having three shotties already

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070631

File: 1544571830510.png (1.14 MB, 1920x1440, 1532612020667.png)

>>42070625
>Slamfire, obviously.
Haha, fair enough!

>>42070625
>I kind of don't have Good excuse
To have, because its neat.
What more do you need.

But honestly, get a normal 590 for half the price, and buy wood furniture, you will save a shit ton, and prob get a better quality piece of wood.

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2oCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070725

File: 1544676603391.png (1.7 MB, 1005x913, suprisedloli.png)

I saw this and thought of >>42069322(You).

Mk17 (p-hone)Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070749

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>>42070725
Omg thats awesome!
Not the worst price ether!

Thanks!

also, iv invaded your brain, my work here is complete

a lost pony !piNKiEPie.Country code: ponies-derpy.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070770

File: 1544739368667.gif (1.84 MB, 560x360, pinkygif.gif)

>>42070749
get it out get it out get it out

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2oCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070771

File: 1544740142522.jpg (551.15 KB, 2560x1440, RVrvPQJ.jpg)

>My Galil ACE arrived at my FFL today
>Walk in and see this, and don't even do the background check that I came to do before molesting this for 20 minutes.

>>42070749
>also, iv invaded your brain, my work here is complete
Venture there at your own peril. If I could look at it myself, I'd probably be horrified.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070804

File: 1544805445727.png (454.06 KB, 669x660, 456546511.PNG)

>>42070771
>Venture there at your own peril. If I could look at it myself, I'd probably be horrified.
There were a lot more references to Half and Half non dairy creamer than i would have expected...

Also, did you buy that shit!? You have good paperwork! You can add as many guns to a 4473 as you want! and if you run out of space, you can attach a white lined piece of paper to the back! Buy once cry once! Your young enough to recover from any credit card debt you might accrue!

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2oCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070807

File: 1544806590749.jpg (296.08 KB, 1440x2560, 1oQsXQj.jpg)

>>42070804
I'd like to say I would something like that some day, but I probably won't.

>There were a lot more references to Half and Half non dairy creamer than i would have expected...

People who drink their coffee with cream and sugar are plebs.

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070809

File: 1544806899683.png (216.58 KB, 418x407, 34521.PNG)

>>42070807
>People who drink their coffee with cream and sugar are plebs.
I like to call them "dessert coffees" and they are okay once in a while. But black is best.

Also ITS SO CUTE!
Aww... lil guy. Gonna defend the homeland are ya! Wish you were there at the west bank dont cha? dawwww.

I really want one o.o

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2oCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070810

File: 1544807629371.jpg (1.16 MB, 1440x2560, 20181213_182137.jpg)

>>42070809
You know, I honestly didn't think the quality on this rifle was going to be all that great. Other than the cheap plastic handguards, it's excellent.

The folding stock mechanism requires retard strength to activate, though, which is good and bad at the same time.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070819

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>>42070810
Yeah, IWI ... or IMI ... whatever they are now... normally makes a pretty good product.

I have handled a few and yeah, they seem like they would be a good reliable tool, with good build quality.

I would want a wood forend anyway haha. Makes it so much more classy.

IkaCountry code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070821

File: 1544820974114.png (416.52 KB, 564x576, d954793245357de974bfda8cdaa761…)

I'm bored of /ef/, wassup?

a lost pony !piNKiEPie.Country code: ponies-derpy.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070834

File: 1544828253571.png (544.89 KB, 1280x720, Pinkie_Pie_scaring_Rainbow_Das…)

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070849

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SnowbellCountry code: ponies-luna.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070860

File: 1544844279099.jpg (201.51 KB, 960x720, 37724290_2315721051801777_8140…)

>>42070821

Guns and stuff.

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070861

File: 1544847316433.png (195.78 KB, 475x533, Screenshot_2018-09-01-01-11-41…)

>>42070860
I need a 20" really bad.

I think thats going to be my victory gift to me for the new job.

I want a VEX upper, with a compass lake chamber... but its too toleranced for 5.56 so i also want a regular 5.56 or wylde chamber.

... idk what I want.

SnowbellCountry code: ponies-luna.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070862

File: 1544847613786.jpg (208.74 KB, 960x720, 26168695_2003682416338977_1198…)

>>42070861
>... idk what I want.

Easy way to fix that is simply to want everything.

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070863

File: 1544847828639.png (490.36 KB, 657x570, 46543.PNG)

>>42070862
Haha, okay, then i know what i want I just dont know what to get first.

I had a VEX, and i LOVED it.

I wouldn't get that one again though, it was wood and really heavy. I would just get the standard free float upper.

But i wouldn't mind just a 20" government upper either.

Idk what the accuracy difference would be. I was doing 1/4" @200 with the vex with off the shelf PMC 55gr. Never got the chance to load my own or run heavier stuff through it.

SnowbellCountry code: ponies-luna.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070865

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>>42070863

Well you're not going to get quite as much accuracy from a non free-floated upper but the difference isn't really that excessive unless you have a bayonet, bipod or something else fitted that will weigh down the barrel or otherwise throw off the barrel harmonics.

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070866

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>>42070865
Yeah, im just wondering about the chamber. That chamber was so tight it would pop 5.56 primers once in a while. So while you could shoot them, it wasnt a great idea.

this is what i had
https://www.windhamweaponry.com/firearms/rifles/223-556-caliber-rifle/vex-wood-stock-series-pepper/

This is what i want
https://www.windhamweaponry.com/firearms/rifles/223-556-caliber-rifle/varmint-exterminator/

SnowbellCountry code: ponies-luna.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070870

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>>42070866

Yeah that sounds a bit problematic. .223 Wylde seems to be the way go these days. Though the Army seems to be renewing it's interest in 6.8SPC. I always liked that round, would be nice to see it get a big fat government contract and start being produced on a larger scale.

a lost pony !piNKiEPie.Country code: ponies-derpy.png, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1  42070875

>>42070870
Hey i just got that pony a week or two ago but mine didn't come with a pineapple.

Mk17Country code: blank.gif, country type: ponyflag, valid: 1 42070876

File: 1544850001930.png (213.35 KB, 373x525, 454654.PNG)

>>42070870
Yeah, but the steel fluted barrel is so sexy haha.

Yeah, 6.8 would be cool, and if they do adopt it, and it becomes as wide spread as 223 i will prob look harder at it.

Right now though, i like to keep my stuff NATO, and i dont have the money for a specialty cart.

I've seen really good things from that cartridge though, haven't shot it myself though.


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