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File: 1565679289591.jpg (427.35 KB, 1500x984, a.jpg)

Anonymous (ID: 724612)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid:   325321

#Politics
>egoist and spooked fascist have fierce debate about private property while a bewildered centrist watches in confusion.jpg

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 891465)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325325

File: 1565687625560.jpg (467.4 KB, 1600x2000, IMG_20190812_150452.jpg)

Intellectual "property" is the most spooked property of all.

Anonymous (ID: fe4c6e)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325326

File: 1565691753811.gif (305.95 KB, 500x281, 0daaaa004d69f37f956cb551cb8e75…)

>>325325
Especially the bogus software patents that USPTO regularly grants on things that are obvious to anyone in the field with half a brain cell.

Mythix (pchans supervillain)!wG1CV58ydQ (ID: 5948c5)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325419

File: 1565719384799.jpg (81.62 KB, 826x464, F0C17386-1A2F-4CAD-856D-4326A8…)

Tanya did nothing wrong.

Toybox(Professional Slut)!!Celestia (ID: 9ff2f3)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325439

File: 1565730357089.jpg (64.53 KB, 316x297, Screenshot_20181002-100457.jpg)

>>325325
Why? Should you not be allowed to own your ideas?

Nigerian Princess (ID: c4ba0b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325440

>>325439
lol, neither the US nor the EU grants intellectual-property rights for mere ideas. For copyright, your work needs to "fixed in a tangible medium of expression" in order to be granted a monopoly excluding others from reproducing your work.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: cceba0)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325445

File: 1565732347664.jpg (78.14 KB, 843x948, susie_eBJVkAd.jpg)

>>325439
Steal a physical object, and the original owner no longer has their copy.
Copy an idea without permission, and the original owner still has it as well. They lose nothing but the power to deny it to you - a monopoly.

The technical systems that run the world today are so intricate and interdependent upon other ideas and systems, that to protect and enforce our notions of idea-ownership so much is in effect to place control of everything - what we can see, what we can say, what we can do in the privacy of our own homes - into the hands of proprietors we never voted for, and to negate our notions of popular consent as the rightful dictator of what is socially acceptable, rather than the decree of some baron whose interests contradict our own.


Nikola Tesla had the right idea. Invent the modern world, and fight to get his ideas distributed, instead of for control over his own credit for them.

Anonymous (ID: 3120e2)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325509

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Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 29928b)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325646

File: 1565767134451.jpg (146.78 KB, 999x1740, IMG_20190814_095422.jpg)

>>325439
Owning an idea is a concept that cannot function in the real world. Ideas aren't like physical objects, and treating them as if they are hurts everyone.

If I make a software application, and I keep the source code to myself, I'm the only one who can modify that application. This means that if there is a bug in my software, or a feature people want, the users of my product are dependent on me to repair it -- even if they are as capable, or more capable, of doing it themselves. Furthermore, if a security vulnerability is found, I'm the only one who can fix it -- and with closed source, proprietary software, the people looking for vulnerabilities are much more likely to be the ones looking to exploit them maliciously, not the ones looking to repair them. Security flaws are found with or without readily available and modifiable source code -- but the latter category will obviously find and repair such flaws much more quickly. Proprietary software relies on one thing and one thing only to incentivize improvement -- profit. And as we're seeing with increasingly ad-riddled, privacy-invasive products like Facebook, Windows, etc., conflicts of interest ensure that incentive doesn't always produce one-to-one results compared to the raw desire to make a better product that drives free software projects.

If I make a game, and someone somewhere else likes my characters and makes an even better game with those characters, or makes a manga or doujin anime with them, good for them. If I try to bring down the hammer of the law on them (as Nintendo does with fan projects), I'm the asshole. They didn't steal my labor, I'm the one stealing theirs. I've effectively said "I don't care that you've put your blood, sweat, and tears into this work with the characters I've created, because they're *my* characters and I'm entitled to decide what happens to them forever". Even aside from individualistic ethical concerns, that's a cultural handicap that artificially holds back characters and stories from achieving their true potential. ZUN, creator of Touhou Project, understands this, and not only turns a blind eye but actively encourages fans to produce labors of love using his creations -- which has allowed the series to achieve unprecedented popularity for an independently produced body of work, and generated a significant amount of wealth and fame for ZUN himself. This is how stories were told and allowed to evolve throughout the vast majority of human history. The idea that only Disney should be allowed to tell stories about Mickey Mouse is an incredibly recent development; the idea that Disney should be allowed to retroactively claim "ownership" of Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader even more so.

So I say, death to copyright, death to patents, death to intellectual property -- death to tyranny. Long live freedom, long live imagination, long live the innovative human spirit!

Toybox(Professional Slut)!!Celestia (ID: 9ff2f3)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325658

File: 1565770579908.png (97.84 KB, 240x341, 276582803020211.png)

>>325646
tl;dr Give me things for free.

Basically what you're trying to do here is kill artistic accomplishment. Think about it. If you make a game and you can't put any kind of lockdown on it, you basically can't sell it. Which means that you cannot make a living doing something you enjoy. Instead you have to get another job that will get you money because trying to make something artistic such as a game or something will net you absolutely nothing. Meaning you'll no longer be able to devote your time into something you enjoy doing and instead will be forced to do other things you don't want to do just to pay the bills.

Nice work. Way to fuck over artists because you're too selfish to just pay for things like a normal person.
This post was edited by its author on .

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 290059)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325664

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>>325658
Please don't enter discourse with me if you're unwilling to actually think about and address the points I make. It'd save me the effort of making them and you the effort of ignoring them.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 6142b0)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325665

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>>325646
If you spend 10 years developing a program, whether it be a game or something useful, that you paid people to help develop, that you took the risk of being in debt because you believe in your idea, and then i just take your program, copy it exactly, do no work, and sell it for my own profit the day you release it, at way below the cost that you need to market it for to pay the employees that worked for you... How am i the hero and you the asshole?

Like, you need to sell that program for $60 just to make $5 profit and pay back the capital you used to create it, and i come along, copy it exactly, and sell it for $5, how is that fair to you, your employees that worked for years, or anyone who does the work to create these things?

Im and advocate of open source, and it has a bunch of merits and community built software imo is better, but in a case like your example with Nintendo, basicly what you would have is nintendo go out of business in a few days time, and if you like your switch, hold onto it, because you will never see more hardware again.

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 12182c)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325672

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>>325665
In that scenario, you are the asshole, yes. That's just bootlegging, something that already happens, laws be damned.

But nobody buys bootleg games intentionally, because if you want to play a game without supporting the developer, why pay any asshole money? It's so easy to pirate Switch games, and a hardware-level vulnerability means Nintendo can't even do a damn thing about it. They're still in business, aren't they? They're still setting sales records, aren't they?

Piracy is the hardest element of anti-IP to defend under capitalism. But, it's an undeniable fact that not only is it still possible to do, but it's also piss easy to do, and piss easy to face zero consequences for. Yet companies and indie devs alike still profit off their products. I could easily have pirated Super Mario Odyssey. Instead I paid $60 for it*. Why?

If I had to choose between someone pirating my game, and them not playing my game at all, I would choose the former. Obviously, I would prefer to be compensated for the fruit of my labor, but many people who pirate games wouldn't be paying customers regardless; if they can't pirate, they simply won't play. In the end, it's still more profitable for me to have them play my game, love it, and give me free advertising through word of mouth.

Consider also the case of ROMs of games that are no longer being published, or are only being published with DRM in online marketplaces. When those online marketplaces shut down (and they will, these things never last forever), those games are gone, forever. Hundreds if not thousands of rare, obscure games are only playable now through piracy, and without piracy, those games would be forgotten; the legacy of their creator lost to the ages.

I still have yet to hear a defense for why I, as a fan of Mario games, shouldn't be allowed to make my own Mario game, and distribute it to other Mario fans, for free or otherwise.

*considering how little respect I have for Nintendo's draconian business practices, I actually feel bad for materially supporting them. Piracy was probably the more ethical option, but I couldn't be arsed to hack my Switch.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 25b147)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325692

File: 1565788428536.png (1.03 MB, 1227x1215, 1532461340166.png)

>>325672
>In that scenario, you are the asshole, yes. That's just bootlegging
So if i was charging 5 bucks, that would be bootlegging and bad, but if i was distributing it for free, that would be alright?
>But nobody buys bootleg games intentionally, because if you want to play a game without supporting the developer, why pay any asshole money?
Because in the world you describe, where this is a legal and socially acceptable practice, why would i pay the original dev the price they need to pay for the development, if i could get the same program for cheaper from someone who just copied it onto a CD or made their own switch cart?
DRM bad in your world, (and possibly illegal?) So, i imagine if i wanted the newest PS4 game, i could just go to any gas station and legally get the disk with the full game for 2 bucks or whatever they want to charge, if i didnt feel like burning it myself.
>But, it's an undeniable fact that not only is it still possible to do, but it's also piss easy to do, and piss easy to face zero consequences for. Yet companies and indie devs alike still profit off their products. I could easily have pirated Super Mario Odyssey. Instead I paid $60 for it*. Why?
Right, they do make profit, because they are working under the system as it is, not the system that you want to see.
In the world where its legal common practice to just distribute someone elses work, for profit or for free, no one would ever pay the originators the cost they need to recoup the cost of their labor. You would be ether be crazy, or extremely charitable to do so.
Why did you? Idk, your asterisk seems to imply that you just didnt feel like doing the work. But still, in your world, there would be no work to do, obtaining the game for free would just be the standard, so why would anyone pay Nintendo for it?
Also, it seems like your saying that the morally correct thing to do would have been to be a thief, because you want some mario, and you dont like the creator of the thing you want, so you should still take from their labor but give no compensation.
I cant agree with that.
>If I had to choose between someone pirating my game, and them not playing my game at all, I would choose the former. Obviously, I would prefer to be compensated for the fruit of my labor, but many people who pirate games wouldn't be paying customers regardless; if they can't pirate, they simply won't play. In the end, it's still more profitable for me to have them play my game, love it, and give me free advertising through word of mouth.
Again, in the system your advocating for, it would be normal common practice, and the morally correct thing to do to obtain your game for free, so no one would pay, regardless of how much "word of mouth" there was.
You can maybe hope some charitable donations come your way, but dont expect to be able to pay employees or fund R&D to move tech forward at all. It would just be released into the world and distributed, as it never belonged to you in the fist place, even as you were working in it.
>Hundreds if not thousands of rare, obscure games are only playable now through piracy, and without piracy, those games would be forgotten; the legacy of their creator lost to the ages.
Are you looking for an emmy nomination with this post? The drama Haha.
Yes, i agree that copyright law is really messed up, in fact, i kade a thread about it less than a week ago. But i dont think it shouldnt exist.
>I still have yet to hear a defense for why I, as a fan of Mario games, shouldn't be allowed to make my own Mario game, and distribute it to other Mario fans, for free or otherwise.
Copyright laws exist so that the creator of an IP can be assured they they will be compensated for their labor throughout their life. It use to be ~50 years now its around ~70 which, i agree is too long.
They exist to protect the person who did the work and had the idea, from copies of that work being distributed and repurposed the moment it becomes a popular and profitable IP.
It also protects mario from legally becoming a symbol inconsistent with the creators intent thereby tarnishing the reputation of the creator. For example, you cant adopt mario as a white supremacist symbol and legally publish games that work on nintendo hardware where he the goombas are black people or some shit and distribute it.
Though, this also falls under trademark.
Its going to be interesting soon because Micky mouse will once again be coming into the public domain in just a couple of years, and though disney has done a lot of work to make that character the "symbol" of Disney, the character they trademarked describes steamboat willy, not the current character design of micky they use as a symbol.

Also keep in mind that there is more to the world than video games, and these laws also prevent people from marking inferior possessors as "AMD" or "Intel" and also protect products such as medical and saftey devices.
The world dosnt hinge on mario and micky mouse. Even if cartoons and video games are what are most important to you, specifically.

Edit:
Whinny the pooh is actually falling into the public domain in 2021 i think, and that will be an interesting test case for what is to come, because disney will fight it, but they cant exactly argue that character is the "symbol" of disney and thereby covered under trademark.
This post was edited by its author on .

Nigerian Princess (ID: c4ba0b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325715

File: 1565797872484.png (112.22 KB, 396x400, 729755_C84E4BE5-2EB3-46E2-B2C9…)

>>325646
I think there needs to be some way of letting companies profit from their creative works and from inventing new products. I think shortening the term of copyright to 7 terms for computer software would be a reasonable compromise in that area. And maybe have an extended period of 15 years where anyone selling or similarly profiting from the work or derivative works needs to pay royalties at set percentage.

For non-software, maybe a little longer terms, like 10 years for monopoly and 20 years for royalties.

Edit: maybe game software should be treated differently from productivity software?
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: de7812)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325724

File: 1565798781917.png (408.83 KB, 724x661, 54646513.PNG)

>>325715
Now your thinking with portals!
Different types of products should be subject to different laws governing them.
As it is, copyright is copyright, and it dosnt matter if its a game, a story, a piece of music, a chemical compound, an educational text... Its all under the same umbrella.
I dont think that is a workable situation, and i think if different types of products were regulated differently, we would come closer to a "fair" and workable situation.

But just saying we should abandon any and all protections for artists creators and their creative works seems short sighted to me.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: de7812)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325889

File: 1565814109180.png (279.53 KB, 1048x1060, Screenshot_20190617-181741_1.p…)

Look at what the evil corporations State Universities are doing.
https://thespun.com/big-ten/ohio-state-buckeyes/the-ohio-state-trademark-application-shirts

Ika (ID: 60d94d)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325905

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>>325889
Universities are just as bad as corporations.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 05679d)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325906

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>>325905
I thought things were better if they were run by the state.

So confusing.

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 29928b)Country code: ro, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325908

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>>325692
>So if i was charging 5 bucks, that would be bootlegging and bad, but if i was distributing it for free, that would be alright?
Neither is "alright" per se, but selling it for money is worse. And it also depends on other factors, I'd say: who made the game? How much has it already sold? Let's think back to the 90's. You buy a CD, and you let your friend borrow it; he rips the tracks to his computer and gives it back. Was that unethical? Why or why not?

>Because in the world you describe, where this is a legal and socially acceptable practice, why would i pay the original dev the price they need to pay for the development, if i could get the same program for cheaper from someone who just copied it onto a CD or made their own switch cart?

Because morality and human decency doesn't evaporate just because a law evaporated. Also, how can you trust some random gas station CD? I hope you're not running Windows and that you only run the contents of the CD in a chroot jail.

>In the world where its legal common practice to just distribute someone elses work, for profit or for free, no one would ever pay the originators the cost they need to recoup the cost of their labor. You would be ether be crazy, or extremely charitable to do so.

The "name your own price" model employed by Bandcamp (for music) and itch.io (for games) disagrees with you, as does the large number of online content creators making a living from Patreon, Ko-Fi, or similar donation sites.

>Also, it seems like your saying that the morally correct thing to do would have been to be a thief, because you want some mario, and you dont like the creator of the thing you want, so you should still take from their labor but give no compensation.

The most correct thing to do would be to not play the game at all. But giving Nintendo money is certainly wrong, for the same reason giving any other company engaging in unethical, anti-consumer practices is wrong.

>Again, in the system your advocating for, it would be normal common practice, and the morally correct thing to do to obtain your game for free, so no one would pay, regardless of how much "word of mouth" there was.

Again, existing platforms where games are distributed on a "pay however much you want" model, and Patreon-funded content creators, disagree with you. Most people aren't assholes, and they're smart enough to know that the things they enjoy are made by people, and people need money to live.

But since I'm talking about ideals here, I'd also like to remind you that I don't think people should need money to live. Or at least shouldn't need to labor under another to get that money.

>Are you looking for an emmy nomination with this post? The drama Haha.

Am I wrong?

>Copyright laws exist so that the creator of an IP can be assured they they will be compensated for their labor throughout their life. It use to be ~50 years now its around ~70 which, i agree is too long.

If I make a character as iconic as Mickey Mouse now -- I'm 24 -- should I get to just rest on my laurels with that character, doing no actual labor, but swimming in money from licensing deals and copyright infringement lawsuits, until I'm 94? Why should people have to pay me just for the privilege of creating derivative works? Aren't all works ultimately a derivative of something?

By the way, copyright laws don't always protect the creator of an IP. Bethesda didn't create Doom (1993), but they "own" the rights to it. Cool that they made a new installment, but what are they doing with the original? Releasing shitty Unity remakes of it that require an internet connection to even play, apparently. I'd find it far less disrespectful to just pirate the real version than to shell out money to piss on its legacy with a fake.

>For example, you cant adopt mario as a white supremacist symbol and legally publish games that work on nintendo hardware where he the goombas are black people or some shit and distribute it.

No, but you can totally make memes of Mario where the M on his hat is replaced with a swastika and post them all over /pol/. That'd be some bullshit, of course, and I don't support it, but imagine if some government unironically tried to make memes ille--waaaaait a second...

>The world dosnt hinge on mario and micky mouse. Even if cartoons and video games are what are most important to you, specifically.

There's a reason I also specifically mentioned application software, and mentioned patents. Remember the last time I talked about patents on here? Particularly the patent wars that followed the Second Industrial Revolution and the many, many lives that were destroyed as a result? My thoughts on that haven't changed. Software patents are indisputably cancer, and hardware patents likely are too.

>>325715
That would certainly be a step in the right direction at the very least.

>>325889
>>325905
Universities are probably worse than corporations in some ways.

(ID: 1d75e7)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325910

File: 1565816384894.png (1.15 MB, 1920x1080, Screenshot_20181002-100250.png)

>>325908
>Because morality and human decency doesn't evaporate just because a law evaporated.

Oh you dear, sweet, innocent fool.

Ika (ID: 60d94d)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325915

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>>325906
You gunnies are so goofy.

>>325908
Lets see
>They lure people with promises of a wealthy future only to cripple them for life with debt
>Full of snobby assholes
>Rape culture
Yea you got a point there.

(ID: 1d75e7)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325917

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>>325915
I've said that colleges are basically casinos for years.

Nigerian Princess (ID: c4ba0b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325918

>>325915
>Rape culture
What did you mean by this?

Ika (ID: 60d94d)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325919

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>>325917
I know, you say it every time the topic comes up.

(ID: 1d75e7)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325920

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>>325919
And nobody listens every time.

Ika (ID: 60d94d)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325921

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>>325920
I mean I agree with you.

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 29928b)Country code: ro, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325922

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>>325910
Drinking as much alcohol as you damn well please is legal. How many people are just wasted 24/7? What's the ratio of law abiding gun owners to mass shooters? How many Canadians engage in zoophilic sex acts? How many people in states with legalized recreational marijuana are stoned 24/7? Why did I take half of my prescribed dose of methylphenidate today instead of quadruple my prescribed dose?

How many people who break laws and get caught doing so are caught in the act directly by law enforcement, compared to how many get turned in by average Joes and Janes who feel it's their civic responsibility to report wrongdoing?

If amorality and mayhem were really the natural state of human behavior, do you really think a few donut munching blue meanies would be enough to stop society from descending into madness? Do you really think we would have ever stepped out of the mud and formed civilized societies to begin with?

Nigerian Princess (ID: c4ba0b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325924

>>325922
>How many Canadians engage in zoophilic sex acts?
Are you implying that zoophilic sex acts are morally wrong? Sounds rather spooky to me.

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 29928b)Country code: ro, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325928

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>>325924
Beside the point. I don't think it'd be morally wrong for me to be tweaking on a hero dose of stimulants right now. Pretty sure it wouldn't even be illegal.

I do think sex acts in which unambiguous consent is lacking are morally wrong (except in a "consensual nonconsent" type situation, agreed upon beforehand), and unambiguous consent with regards to animals is not something that can be reliably proven. Does that make zoophilia intrinsically wrong? Not necessarily. Some may argue that ascertaining unambiguous consent from animals is always impossible, as animals lack the agency humans have. Personally...meh. Nobody asks cows for unambiguous consent before slaughtering them and grinding them up to make Big Macs, but very few people have that weighing on their conscience while they're singing along to their Cyndi Lauper cassettes in the McDonald's drive thru. Sure, it's not exactly the same thing, because you do need food to live, but it doesn't have to be a Big Mac. Not that the existence of Big Macs make it okay to go and rape a cow, of course.

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 29928b)Country code: ro, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325933

File: 1565819181309.jpg (148.74 KB, 1000x1500, tmp_18906-IMG_20190814_190330-…)

inb4 all morality is spooked
Morality is my property. What now, Stirner?

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: febd0a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325934

File: 1565819301634.png (206.57 KB, 484x495, 1346798.PNG)

>>325908
>Neither is "alright" per se, but selling it for money is worse. And it also depends on other factors, I'd say: who made the game? How much has it already sold?
But to do that you would have to work under a system where those things are considered, not one where its legal for anyone to ise and distribute the product any way they please the moment its created.
I mean, was it okay for people to distribute a disto they called linux mint, pass it off as mint, when really it was spyware?
>You buy a CD, and you let your friend borrow it; he rips the tracks to his computer and gives it back. Was that unethical? Why or why not?
To borrow, no, to make a copy yes.
Because its having a piece of an artists work without giving compensation.
>Because morality and human decency doesn't evaporate just because a law evaporated.
Thats a whole other philosophical debate.
>Also, how can you trust some random gas station CD? I hope you're not running Windows and that you only run the contents of the CD in a chroot jail.
It was a hypothetical, but yes, under the system you suggest, you are going to have to take a lot of security measures to be sure you are getting a genuine product, because anyone would be able to copy it, modify it, and distribute it as the original.
>The "name your own price" model employed by Bandcamp (for music) and itch.io (for games) disagrees with you, as does the large number of online content creators making a living from Patreon, Ko-Fi, or similar donation sites.
And i think these things are great and have never argued against them. But, it still works under the current system and it only works because you cant take that persons IP, claim it as your own, and set up your own distribution site.
On top of that, people will be charitable, but the people who sell through those sites and live off donation often dont need to pay employees, fund RnD, or have overhead of any sort.
>The most correct thing to do would be to not play the game at all.
Correct.
>But giving Nintendo money is certainly wrong, for the same reason giving any other company engaging in unethical, anti-consumer practices is wrong.
So dont do it, but that dosnt give you license to steal their products.
>But since I'm talking about ideals here, I'd also like to remind you that I don't think people should need money to live.
How do you get there?
>Or at least shouldn't need to labor under another to get that money.
Including a government?
How do you create NASA under your system?
>Again, existing platforms where games are distributed on a "pay however much you want" model, and Patreon-funded content creators, disagree with you.
Patreon funded creators are individuals arnt the corporations that you will think are evil no matter what and who also produce the technology that make all this possible in the first place.
Show me the "pay what you want" heart stint or MRI machine. The world isnt just anime and video games.
>If I make a character as iconic as Mickey Mouse now -- I'm 24 -- should I get to just rest on my laurels with that character, doing no actual labor, but swimming in money from licensing deals and copyright infringement lawsuits, until I'm 94?
Well, if you read what i wrote, i think 70 years is too long, but yes i do think you should have control over that character for a perscribed amount of time to be able to make the money you deserve. Idk why the creator of a product being compensated for it is such a hard concept for you to grasp.
Under your system, you write a book, i think its a good book, im better at marketing, so i erase your name, but on my name, no one ever knows you even wrote it and i get all you the credit and revenue.
Yay?
>Am I wrong?
See above.
>By the way, copyright laws don't always protect the creator of an IP. Bethesda didn't create Doom (1993), but they "own" the rights to it.
Because the rights were sold to them by the original owner willingly.
>But what are they doing with the original? Releasing shitty Unity remakes of it.
And if you bought an original shelby GT 500, painted it hot pink, and brought it to a demolition derby i would think your a piece of shit, but you bought the car, and its yours to do with what you please.
Ether way, under your system the same thing could happen, just Id wouldnt have ever been compensated for it.
>No, but you can totally make memes of Mario where the M on his hat is replaced with a swastika and post them all over /pol/.
Sure can.
>That'd be some bullshit, of course, and I don't support it, but imagine if some government unironically tried to make memes ille--waaaaait a second...
Which again, i disagree with. Why do you think there can only be total Utopia or total distopia? Why do you need to abolish all laws that protect content creators or there will be an artistic dystopia? The world isnt black and white.
>There's a reason I also specifically mentioned application software, and mentioned patents. Remember the last time I talked about patents on here? Particularly the patent wars that followed the Second Industrial Revolution and the many, many lives that were destroyed as a result?
No.
>My thoughts on that haven't changed. Software patents are indisputably cancer, and hardware patents likely are too.
Right, and a world without MRI machines and space travel is the world your advocating for.
But also, you liken every subject to video games and cartoons, all your examples of "the ststem" are always about media and tech, its like you dont realize that there are other things in the world that these laws also cover, which is something ive pointed out a lot.
Its not a judgement, its just a request to think a little more complex.
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Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: febd0a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325935

File: 1565820046276.png (782.04 KB, 949x1200, 1533065662841.png)

>>325915
I would think as a content creator yourself, you might have an opinion on the whole "your art dosnt belong to you, and i should be able to erase your name, put on my own and sell it" argument im being presented with.

Nigerian Princess (ID: c4ba0b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325936

File: 1565820107152.png (342.48 KB, 499x500, Instagram-Current-mood-corgi-c…)

>>325928
>unambiguous consent
That's a load of bullocks. When you want to get a new dog, do ask a dog if consents to you buying it or adopting it? Do you inquire if it consents to getting spayed/neutered? Why is sex such a terrible thing that you need to be extra sure about consent? And most animals will let you know if they don't like you performing a sexual act on them. And if the animal initiates the act (e.g., if you put peanut butter somewhere on your body and the dog spontaneously starts licking it), can you really question whether it consents?
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: cceba0)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325938

>>325936
ayyyy, this guy gets it

Ika (ID: 60d94d)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325940

File: 1565820611042.png (196.76 KB, 314x456, Screenshot_295.png)

>>325935
I don't read walls of text.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: febd0a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325941

You guys understand that not all animals treat procreation like humans do right?
They dont all do it for fun like primates and some others do, and if you dont understand that almost no female animals consent to sex and only allow it by very specific males at very specific times, you have absolutely no right to say "i should be able to hold down an animal and fuck it because i want to"

Sick.
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: 20e014)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325942

File: 1565820812373.jpg (61.84 KB, 720x720, JPEG_20180928_151812.jpg)

>>325941
If it's a male Animal fucking you though?
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: febd0a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325945

>>325942
Thats actually fair.

The only time you can ever claim that there was any "consent" is if an animal uses it own agency to act on you.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: febd0a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325947

>>325936
And further more, you argument is also implying that because you own the dog and had it nutured, you can also use it to beat the shit out of and take out your aggression because its your dog.

(ID: 20e014)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325948

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>>325945
Score.

Nigerian Princess (ID: c4ba0b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325949

>>325947
How so? I don't see it that way.

Anonymous (ID: cceba0)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325950

File: 1565821355182.png (540.29 KB, 697x526, antsecution.png)

>>325941
>dont all do it for fun
Do we even have any hard evidence on this either way, besides the fact that only dolphins were smart enough to figure out how to jerk each other off without sticking it in?


>almost no female animals consent to sex

So it's okay when males of their own species rape them, but not us? By that standard, do we say it's also okay when animals murder humans but not when we do it to each other because animals don't have any moral agency?

No, when an animal starts killing humans - and often even when it doesn't - we just kill it. Why should a creature we don't consider to have moral agency, that isn't accountable for its moral actions, still benefit from our own morals?

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: febd0a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325951

>>325949
Well, if you dont have to be sure about consent, which a female dog would never give, then obviously its just a piece of meat for you to fuck against its will, so why cant you do other things against its will?

See this guy is with ya >>325950

Fuck em, rape em, beat em, whatever. Just have fun.

I see why you guys post anon now.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: cceba0)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325954

>>325951
If it were wrong to murder an animal for its meat, then it wouldn't matter even if we absolutely needed its nutrients to survive, it still wouldn't be okay to kill it regardless because a murder's a murder. If a human reached a state where it suddenly needed to kill a human each day just to keep on living, we'd call them a supervillain and either execute them or lock them up to die.

If we don't give it a basic right to live, it doesn't have a right to require consent, either.

Nigerian Princess (ID: c4ba0b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325956

>>325951
>then obviously its just a piece of meat for you to fuck against its will
Whoa there, I never said it's okay to do it AGAINST the animal's will. If the animal indicates that it doesn't want sexual, I think one should respect that. But I don't think an impossible-to-satisfy standard of unambiguous consent is appropriate.
>>325951
>consent, which a female dog would never give
I'm fairly certain there are bitches who would happily lick peanut butter off my balls.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: febd0a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325959

>>325954
Your a sick person.

All organisms consume to survive, thats not an excuse to hold down an animal and fuck it against it will you insaine person.
"Oh dude, i ripped my cats cervix apart with my cock, as it screamed in agony, but its okay, because humans are omnivores"
You need help.

>>325956
But you said its okay that it cant give consent. Since almost all animal females have a mating season and will only mate with a specific male of their species it will always be against their will.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: febd0a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325961

File: 1565822214648.png (529.51 KB, 1096x1080, Screenshot_20190610-113610_1.p…)

Im out of this convo, i hope you both get raped.

Nigerian Princess (ID: c4ba0b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325963

>>325959
>But you said its okay that it cant give consent
No, I said that ascertaining consent shouldn't be held to a crazy impossible-to-satisfy standard.

Nigerian Princess (ID: c4ba0b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325970

>>325959
>Since almost all animal females have a mating season and will only mate with a specific male of their species it will always be against their will.
Vaginal penetration isn't the only form of sexual activity. Like I said earlier, if a dog starts licking my genitals of its own accord, how can that be said to be against its will?

Ika (ID: 60d94d)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325974

File: 1565822858505.png (464.18 KB, 640x540, Screenshot_286.png)

>>325961
This is why I don't bother with anons, they aren't worth the effort.
Having to hide your opinion behind anonymity is already a huge red flag.

Anonymous (ID: cceba0)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325976

>>325959
When practiced in the real world, your side amounts to "it's right to lock up members of our own species in a room where they're essentially condemned to death, because they put da peepee in the butt of a steer that was slaughtered a day later." What do you call that?
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: cceba0)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325981

>>325974
What's even more cowardly is never growing enough of a pair to make an actual argument defending the things that are hard to defend, and instead waiting until someone else has reluctantly done it to snark at their a u d a c i t y with your smarmy little crafted persona, then mock them for not sharing your flamboyant ego.

Nigerian Princess (ID: c4ba0b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  325986

>>325976
Ahem, I don't recall saying anything about law or punishment in my post.

Anonymous (ID: cceba0)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  325987

>>325986
oh shit, i meant to reply to mk


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