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File: 1562651137021.png (110.18 KB, 1024x1024, antifa.png)

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid:   311919[Last 50 Posts]

#Politics
Why do liberals have such a hard time identifying antifascists as the good guys?

Anonymous (ID: 6c1e22)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311920

File: 1562651475240.png (261.72 KB, 1056x738, ylfilq.png)

Anonymous (ID: 472253)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311922

File: 1562651537779.jpg (24.35 KB, 700x393, perfectly balanced.jpg)

>>311919
Because everything they're taught has the aim of creating a fetish for "balance". While it is a desire they sincerely hold, those who are insincere about it (fascists) will always take advantage of it.

>>311920
But yeah, the OP is a loaded question. I'm taking this image. It'll be useful.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311927

>>311920
Do you have a problem with calling them the good guys?

Mint horse (ID: 92d14e)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311931

File: 1562669664618.png (153.03 KB, 430x430, 322568AA-404E-4057-81A1-A421DD…)

I honestly don’t think I’ll understand Antifa. As ridiculous as I think they are I can understand movements like Black Lives Matter perfectly, but Antifa completely eludes me.

I have no idea what they’re goals or motivations are, or how they hope to achieve them. Although I don’t care, and I’ll be the first to say that the vast majority of them deserve the rope. BLM, they’re alright despite my disagreements with them, but Antifa is pure cancer and deserves to be treated as such. These people should be debated they should be imprisoned.

Maroon Auburn!QEUQfdPtTM (ID: d7cee3)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311933

File: 1562669986144.gif (726.11 KB, 300x168, 542.gif)

>>311931

'Fuck the man! All cops are racist bastards! Let's go burn down the town, attack innocent people! This will show people we are on the right side of history!'

Mint horse (ID: 92d14e)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311935

File: 1562670154483.jpg (14.56 KB, 180x279, 99CAD20D-D3B1-476D-84D8-117297…)

>>311933
I agree that they’re retarded and I disagree with them, but I understand their motivations. Antifa on the other hand, well I have no idea what they’re about.

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 6f938b)Country code: lunachan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311936

File: 1562670344073.png (546.86 KB, 935x717, Screenshot from 2015-09-23 20_…)

Mint horse (ID: 92d14e)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311937

File: 1562670978514.png (79.99 KB, 400x334, 6ECE44CB-04FC-4FE3-8299-00B880…)

>>311936
>Now, I'm realizing antifa/SHARPS/etc are the only thing keeping nazis in the shadows.

You can’t actually believe this shit. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a single “Nazi” event that was shut down because the “Nazis” were scared of Antifa. They’ve shut events down by contacting the hosts of the events, but never thought fear.

To be honest I don’t want Antifas violence to stop, because all they do is further radicalise people on the right and smear the left as violent thugs. As the “radical centrists” keep saying, Antifa creates “Nazis” by radicalising people on the right as a response to how radical they’ve become.

Also are you tacitly agreeing with Antifa by citing this post?

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311938

>>311931
tl;dr
>fascism is inherently violent and a threat to the perceived non-people
>this must be prevented at all cost
>antifascism isn't an organisation, it's an idea that you should be a part of

Mint horse (ID: 9bedb4)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311940

File: 1562671960552.jpg (26.37 KB, 220x310, 5C3AD4EC-0E57-4528-B99D-72016F…)

>>311938
>fascism is inherently violent and a threat to the perceived non-people
Fascism is a nations self defence mechanism, and naturally kicks in whenever a people or nation are under existential threat. Those who oppose it are the aggressors.

Plus doesn’t Antifa essentially do the same with their political dissidents?

>antifascism isn't an organisation, it's an idea that you should be a part of

To bad that I’m a Facist then.

If only we had a modern day equivalent of the SA.

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 6f938b)Country code: lunachan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311941

File: 1562672117784.jpg (238.4 KB, 1327x1470, D26dmnWUcAIx0Ve.jpeg)

>>311937
I don't think nazis are "scared" of antifa, no. But if, God forbid, I accidentally found myself at a Proud Boy rally, I would absolutely appreciate having antifa around as some semblance of protection. Cops don't do shit and many of them are actually buddy-buddy with PB/PP and associated neofascist groups. I have an ex-friend who has the fucking black sun as his profile pic who just got sworn in.

>As the “radical centrists” keep saying, Antifa creates “Nazis” by radicalising people on the right as a response to how radical they’ve become.

If anything, you've got it backwards. Anyone who's unsure who "the real fascists" are need only compare body counts. And I don't mean historical body counts, I mean recent.

"Radical centrists" aren't actually centrist, though. 9 times out of 10 a self-proclaimed centrist is just a right-winger who happens to have a few gay friends.

Anonymous (ID: a15e64)Country code: tux.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311942

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 6f938b)Country code: lunachan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311943

File: 1562672621001.jpg (177.75 KB, 852x1200, D12IhYwU4AAZbnD.jpg)

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/08/what-the-alt-left-was-actually-doing-in-charlottesville.html

>While one obviously can’t objectively say what a kind of alternate reality or “sliding doors”–type situation would have been, one can hypothesize or theorize. Based on what was happening all around, the looks on their faces, the sheer number of them, and the weapons they were wielding, my hypothesis or theory is that had the antifa not stepped in, those of us standing on the steps would definitely have been injured, very likely gravely so. On Democracy Now, Cornel West, who was also in the line with us, said that he felt that the antifa saved his life. I didn’t roll my eyes at that statement or see it as an exaggeration—I saw it as a very reasonable hypothesis based on the facts we had.

>No police officers in sight (that I could see from where I stood), and we were prepared to be beaten to a bloody pulp to show that while the state permitted white nationalists to rally in hate, in the many names of God, we did not. But we didn’t have to because the anarchists and anti-fascists got to them before they could get to us. I’ve never felt more grateful and more ashamed at the same time. The antifa were like angels to me in that moment.
>I am a pastor in Charlottesville, and antifa saved my life twice on Saturday. Indeed, they saved many lives from psychological and physical violence—I believe the body count could have been much worse, as hard as that is to believe. Thankfully, we had robust community defense standing up to white supremacist violence this past weekend. Incredibly brave students held space at the University of Virginia and stared down a torch-lit mob that vastly outnumbered them on Friday night.

(ID: a43f18)Country code: tr, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311944

>>311941
Was there ever an account of Proud Boys being violent tbh?

Mint horse (ID: 302be7)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311945

File: 1562673137217.png (92.59 KB, 313x284, AB3AED05-B936-4D44-AA22-0703EA…)

>>311941
>Proud Boy rally
You mean the group of edgy “right wing” libertarians? Yeah I’m sure they’d misgender you, right before lynching you with their hate speech. Trust me, they wouldn’t lay a finger on you.

>"the real fascists"

Don’t get me wrong I don’t see Antifa as Fascist just because they’re violent. No they’re just thugs.

>body counts.

I don’t think that scares off as many people as you might think it does. Especially considering that the vast majority of far righters believe that a big race war is right around the corner in which hundreds of millions, possibly even a billion people may die.

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 6f938b)Country code: lunachan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311951

File: 1562675372199.jpg (115.12 KB, 976x1066, D2BGn1nUwAAZySD.jpg:large.jpeg)

>>311944
That's one of the things they're most known for.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/14/proud-boys-far-right-portland-oregon
https://twitter.com/jangelooff/status/1051170094208954369?lang=en
Proud Boys Violent Assault After Gavin McInnes Republican Club Event 10/12/18
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/proud-boys-chat-logs-premeditate-rally-violence-in-leaked-chats_n_5ce1e231e4b00e035b928683

>>311945
>You mean the group of edgy “right wing” libertarians?
"Libertarians", my ass. I don't want to be anywhere near these brownshirts.

>I don’t think that scares off as many people as you might think it does. Especially considering that the vast majority of far righters believe that a big race war is right around the corner in which hundreds of millions, possibly even a billion people may die.

Well yeah, of course the far right doesn't care that far righters have killed a bunch of people. They're happy about it. But they'll continue to downplay that while feigning distress over nonsensical stories like "cement milkshakes" in a bad faith effort to get clueless liberals on their side.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311952

>>311940
>Fascism is a nations self defence mechanism
If by nation you mean the ruling class and by self defence you mean systematically oppressing arbitrarily chosen outgroups.

>naturally kicks in whenever a people or nation are under existential threat

Fascism always starts with oppressing parts of a nation's own people under the guise of them somehow being responsible for problems they haven't caused.

>Those who oppose it are the aggressors.

I truly wonder how you could possibly justify oppression, and in most cases killing the outgroup, not the aggressor.

>Plus doesn’t Antifa essentially do the same with their political dissidents?

If you denounce fascism you're left alone. You can't denounce whatever fascism deems the outgroup.

>To bad that I’m a Facist then.

It is very fucking disturbing. You are either completely clueless or a very bad person that wishes to harm people for no justified reason.


>>311945
>You mean the group of edgy “right wing” libertarians?
Proud boys are white nationalists. White nationalism is inherently violent and should be fought on sight.

>Yeah I’m sure they’d misgender you, right before lynching you with their hate speech. Trust me, they wouldn’t lay a finger on you.

You are so incredibly naive and frankly dangerous with your rhetoric.

>Don’t get me wrong I don’t see Antifa as Fascist just because they’re violent. No they’re just thugs.

Historically antifascist action is only violent as a last resort.

>I don’t think that scares off as many people as you might think it does. Especially considering that the vast majority of far righters believe that a big race war is right around the corner in which hundreds of millions, possibly even a billion people may die.

That's a bad thing, you fucking moron.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311954

File: 1562676359795.png (206.57 KB, 484x495, 1346798.PNG)

>>311919
If you call cyanide "happy good time juice" it's still cyanide and kills you just the same.

Mint horse (ID: cbf11f)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311956

File: 1562676436971.png (92.59 KB, 313x284, 6590326E-6E5B-46EE-B3DB-9FD00B…)

>>311952
>If by nation you mean the ruling class
Tell me, which side are the current ruling class on? Because they certainly don’t seem to be in support of Fascism or White people.

>nation's own people

I think we have a radically different definition of who is and isn’t apart of any given nation.

>I truly wonder how you could possibly justify oppression, and in most cases killing the outgroup, not the aggressor.

Because they out-group posses an existentialist threat to us, especially considering that said out-group, or rather groups believe themselves to be equal to us, both in character, as well as rights within our nation. Not to mention that they’re constantly baited against us.

>You are either completely clueless or a very bad person that wishes to harm people for no justified reason.

I just want to protect my own people, simple as that.

>That's a bad thing, you fucking moron.

It’s the chemotherapy necessary to kill the cancer.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311957

File: 1562677392482.png (325.44 KB, 474x714, 65654654877.png)

>>311952
>proud boys are white nationalists
No they aren't lol

They're just patriots

Is being proud of ones country a bad thing now?

It's honestly funny watching them beat the shit out of scrawny antifa spergs who invade their space

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 77e51d)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311958

File: 1562677556089.png (206.57 KB, 484x495, 1346798.PNG)

>>311957
If you call cyanide "happy good time juice" it's still cyanide and kills you just the same.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311959

File: 1562677714069.png (326.13 KB, 506x591, 6565487900.png)

>>311958
We live in a period of time where being proud of your country makes you a white nationalist...

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 6f938b)Country code: lunachan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311961

>>311957
They are neofascist terrorists, dude. Read the HuffPo article I linked (>>311951). inb4 >HuffPo, it has screenshots with photographic evidence confirming their legitimacy.

Whelp (ID: 7db3c8)Country code: goggles.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311962

>>311954

Right? This is the part that baffles me. Literally the only two arguments I ever hear supporting Antifa are "Yeah, well, the Nazis are worse!" and "They're against fascism, it's in the name. You'd have to be an idiot to not realize why they're good." As if names mean jack shit. But it seems to mean a lot to American progressives (At least a lot of the ones I've seen arguing online) who largely seem to hold some sort of belief that if someone says they are for/against something that's good/bad, then you can't criticize them, because the cause they purport to be for/against is good/bad. Like, it doesn't matter what you say your agenda is if you still act like a violent thug, FFS.

You can't just say "The bad guys are worse, and we're fighting the bad guys, so therefore we're good!" That's not how anything works, except in the minds of the deluded.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 77e51d)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311964

File: 1562678137446.png (289.14 KB, 521x498, 15846545454.PNG)

>>311959
I guess we also live in a period where being in an unruly mob of fight instigators and 3% LARPers with a the gayest name they could have chosen is considered patriotism.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311965

File: 1562678193501.png (304.75 KB, 524x528, 6565465487876987.png)

>>311961
Oh wow super conclusive evidence there...

Everyone is a fascist

>>311964
Yes

So why do people sperg out about them?

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311966

>>311962
Welp gets it.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 77e51d)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311967

File: 1562678330560.png (279.53 KB, 1048x1060, Screenshot_20190617-181741_1.p…)

>>311965
Because they are just antifa with a name catered to appeal to people on the other side.

>>311966
Now apply the logic to the "proud boys".
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: 078a78)Country code: stallman.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311969

File: 1562678597625.png (172.22 KB, 304x793, RinAppalled.png)

>>311957
This >>311967
That has to bee one of the most bafflingly uninformed statements I've heard in a while, at least on Ponychan. Come on dude, just because someone calls themselves a patriot, that doesn't make them a patriot.
Antifa are as the name would imply, anti-fascist; the Proud Boys are very pro-fascist with a pretty name.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311970

File: 1562678599857.png (248.27 KB, 485x537, 65656546546.png)

>>311967
Protip: proud boys are nothing more but a bunch of idiots who LARP

They don't antagonize shit, really.

Anitifia on the other hand intentionally does

We can centrist all day here, sure.

But from what I see this how it goes.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311972

>>311956
>Tell me, which side are the current ruling class on?
What nation are we talking about? If any western nation, the ruling class (or the status quo) is absolutely majority white favored. While fascism isn't outright supported yet, it is certainly gaining traction in many places, the USA included, and more importantly doesn't challenge the status quo.

>I think we have a radically different definition of who is and isn’t apart of any given nation.

Yes, because you prefer feelings over facts.

>Because they out-group posses an existentialist threat to us, especially considering that said out-group, or rather groups believe themselves to be equal to us, both in character, as well as rights within our nation. Not to mention that they’re constantly baited against us.

I will assume that you mean non-white people. Mother nature itself is against your cause, meaning that you would need to kill off every single non-white (whatever that means) person. Not only that, but after such a goal you would need to move on to another "less white" group of people. No one is advocating for the wiping out of white people. Why the hell wouldn't everyone be equal?

>I just want to protect my own people, simple as that.

No you don't. There is no rational basis for the percieved threat, and what you advocate for isn't just protecting.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311973

>>311969
They're literally low IQ red necks

There's nothing "fascist" about them

(ID: 078a78)Country code: stallman.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311974

File: 1562678813128.png (9.83 KB, 335x400, question.png)

>>311973
>They're literally low IQ red necks
So are most neo-nazis and fascists, but that doesn't make them LARPers, even if they are nonviolent.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 77e51d)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311975

File: 1562678842391.png (638.75 KB, 928x1080, Screenshot_2018-08-06-19-09-24…)

>>311970
They show up in places just to troll and hope someone else swings first so they can say "oh, look! We're the innocents here!" They just want to get into a fight and cause chaos like antiafa.

Not only are they shit tier trolls, but they are also cowards.

Just because they say they stand for patriotism, doesn't make it so. Don't fall for false advertising.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311976

File: 1562678974409.png (240.7 KB, 476x307, 6565465878987.png)

>>311974
>>311975
So why care? Why think you're making a difference because you're anti the other side

This is stupid

Like go home
This post was edited by its author on .

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311978

"Both sides"

Everytime lol

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 77e51d)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311979

File: 1562679334878.png (1.18 MB, 1371x1282, mtr_1533011751299.png)

>>311976
Well I care itt because your calling assholes "Patriots" and giving people who actually are a bad name.

These fucks arnt Patriots, they are terrorists who draped themselves in that word.
It's the exact same tactic that antifa uses, and just like anyone who is really against fascism should be smart enough to call antifa out, anyone who is a patriot should do the same with the proud boys.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311980

>>311957
>No they aren't lol
Just because it's an organisation formed by Gavin McInnes, associated with Richard Spencer and participates in white nationalist events, doesn't mean they're white nationalists! After all, they deny that notion! They're just concerned about perserving "western values".

>They're just patriots

I don't think you want to associate patriotism with them, although I would be fine with that.

>Is being proud of ones country a bad thing now?

No, just kind of dumb.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311981

File: 1562679672829.png (162.96 KB, 284x417, 6565464645698333.png)

>>311979
I'm done.

I'm sick of this shit.

Don't even know why I took the bait

I thought we were gonna do the political tag system which would come in handy right now.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311983

>>311980
Yes, everything is white nationalist when it's right wing

Sorry gotta look at both sides xd

(ID: 078a78)Country code: stallman.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311985

File: 1562680010322.png (2.61 MB, 1528x2147, j1i4ojg.png)

>>311981
I said I could fully set it up yesterday (or the day before, I don't remember) but you said no.

>>311983
Right wing extremism in Europe and America tends to be predominantly white nationalist because white people are the majority.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 77e51d)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311986

File: 1562680053200.png (455.45 KB, 811x824, Screenshot_2018-08-05-23-21-51…)

>>311981
Yeah, I'm ready when you are.

But I'm just saying, calling the proud boys patriots is like calling antifa anti fascist.
It's only superficial.

Mint horse (ID: 887532)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311987

File: 1562680059825.png (491.43 KB, 805x1024, 59291210-0972-4A3B-AFE1-694A79…)

>>311972
>majority white favored.
Name a single political that’s in favour of White people remaining the absolute majority in any country.

>doesn't challenge the status quo.

Fascism doesn’t challenge the current status quo? What the hell are you on about. How does Fascism not challenge the current status quo?

>Yes, because you prefer feelings over facts.

Well you know what, my feelings, mainly my love and loyalty to my people don’t care about your “facts.” I don’t care about being morally or factually right, I care about winning.

>you would need to kill off every single non-white person

No, I just want most of them out of the country.

>There is no rational basis for the percieved threat,

My people are a minority in our own capital city. I don’t need to provide any further proof.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311988

File: 1562680148422.png (320.44 KB, 497x614, 65645687876.png)

>>311985
No I didn't say anything like that. I thought a sticky was to be made today.

Yes, white people bad, I get it.

(ID: 078a78)Country code: stallman.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311989

File: 1562680397629.jpg (12.32 KB, 194x259, strawman.jpg)

>>311988
Ok, it might have been Mk17 but you agreed with the suggestion.
>Yes, white people bad, I get it.
You're making strawman after strawman without giving any cogent arguments.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311990

File: 1562680562328.png (137.03 KB, 346x499, 654665465476765.png)

>>311989
Dunno If you can tell

But I don't give a shit anymore and haven't for like a half hour now because I know how these shitty bait threads go

Honestly steam twist is much better than OP

(ID: 078a78)Country code: stallman.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311993

>>311990
Cutting your losses is better than continuing to give bad and/or fallacious arguments.
>Honestly steam twist is much better than OP
That's pretty debatable but it doesn't have much of a point because a conclusion wouldn't get us anywhere, but the OP (at least based on this thread) isn't a lolcow and the text doesn't make him look like a delusional mini-Chris Chan

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311995

>>311962
The violent thug narrative is overblown, and corporate media regularly preys on violence caused by antifa while giving fascist movements a pass. (Status quo etc. etc.)

Let's say you have a reporter who doxxes a person after they have their spine broken by a Proud Boy at a "not a white nationalist" rally. Is it justified to punch them in the face and throw milkshakes at them at another "not a white nationalist" rally?

>You can't just say "The bad guys are worse, and we're fighting the bad guys, so therefore we're good!" That's not how anything works, except in the minds of the deluded.

I would modify that sentence to "the bad guys are actively advocating for the death of all non-white people, and we're fighting the bad guys, so therefor we're good!" That's exactly how it works.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311996

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  311997

>>311983
There's a clear distinction between white nationalism and right wing politics.

One wants to get rid of non-white people (whatever that is). The other wants to preserve white people as privileged (in the US).

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  311998

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312001

>>311987
>Name a single political that’s in favour of White people remaining the absolute majority in any country.
That isn't the same as white people being the ruling class.

>Fascism doesn’t challenge the current status quo? What the hell are you on about. How does Fascism not challenge the current status quo?

Well, let's take the USA for example. The status quo favors white people and corporate power. Fascism isn't concerned in changing either by itself.

>Well you know what, my feelings, mainly my love and loyalty to my people don’t care about your “facts.” I don’t care about being morally or factually right, I care about winning.

That is what makes you a bad person, unintelligent and dangerous.

>No, I just want most of them out of the country.

Don't pretend. "Most" is a laughable claim. Even if you didn't want every single one, someone else in your camp does. The nazis only wanted jews out at first, look what happened. It isn't a reasonable position to "just want them out" without resorting to mass killings. Even if it was just "most", whiteness is recessive and the "problematic" people would increase over time anyways, so you would need to solve that problem (by killing them).

>My people are a minority in our own capital city. I don’t need to provide any further proof.

Being a minority should not be a threat. It's indicative of your thoughts that you would feel that way. That is, if roles were reversed, you would be a threat to the minority.

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 6f938b)Country code: lunachan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312002

https://itsgoingdown.org/were-gonna-hurt-you-inside-joey-gibsons-escalation-of-violence/

inb4 "clearly biased source". Check the links. There's (even more) video evidence. All this stuff is documented.

inb4 "k". Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312003

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312005

>>312002
I really don't think Mikie can ever be saved. Every confrontation with evidence or reasoning that opposes his positions is met with disregard.

You can lead a horse (or pony in this case) to water but you can't make it drink.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312006

>>312002
>>312003
Sorry I couldn't resist.

Mint horse (ID: 887532)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312007

File: 1562683081777.png (153.03 KB, 430x430, 076E6986-AB41-497C-8899-F94814…)

>>312001
>The status quo favors white people
Which is why they are becoming a minority?

>That is what makes you a bad person, unintelligent and dangerous.

Loyalty to my people supposedly makes me a bad person, but being a proud race traitor makes you virtuous?

>whiteness is recessive

What is that supposed to mean?

>so you would need to solve that problem

I’d just deport more people if it was necessary. Besides the minority that I’d allow in the country would be almost entirely East Asian, so they wouldn’t pose any major problems.

>Being a minority should not be a threat.

Being a minority in any situation is bound to lead to weakness and subjugation by the majority group, unless one fights back.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312008

File: 1562683159472.png (1.04 MB, 1293x1173, 1532390163574.png)

>>311997
Would people who want to preserve blacks in a majority black, or Asians in a majority asian country as the "privileged" be considered right wing as well?

What wing are the people who want to make the "un privileged" people into the privileged people?

>>312005
I like how you see yourself as some kind of benevolent super genius saviour of man.
It's why I can't take you seriously most of the time.
This post was edited by its author on .

vynn (ID: 84e84a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312009

File: 1562683226617.jpg (31.11 KB, 535x356, D35utpSWsAYNggo.jpeg)

>>311957
>They're just patriots
>Is being proud of ones country a bad thing now?

I know this isn't the main point, but heck I'll say it anyway. I don't have a problem with patriotism itself. It's neither good nor bad, it's just a thing I don't care about. But I feel like most of the time I feel like most patriotism is just blind patriotism. Like, being completely enamoured with the US to the point of ignoring any and all criticism.

Actually, even worse than that, I see a ton of people outright resisting any minor change to the status quo -- even if it would be a potentially positive change -- just in the name of patriotism. Like, a whole ton of people just think current America is literally the best thing ever and trying to improve it in any shape or form is going to cause it to not be America anymore or something.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312010

>>312005
>yeah only super intelligent people like us are super woke
You

People

Aren't

Worth

The

Time

Or

The

Effort
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: f793f8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312011

>>312009
like adding free heath care.

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 6f938b)Country code: lunachan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312012

>>312008
>Would people who want to preserve blacks in a majority black, or Asians in a majority asian country as the "privileged" be considered right wing as well?
Yes. This is why Japan and Israel are often described as right-wing.

Anyway I am starved and this thread is depressing so I'm gonna hide it and get a philly cheesesteak. I hope the politics tag goes live soon so I can limit myself to only one of these asinine "discussions" per week.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312013

File: 1562683742171.png (1.05 MB, 1920x1440, 1533162589119.png)

>>312012
I know, but I wanted foxes answer.
Check mod chat once in a while and you would know exactly when it's going live haha.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312015

>>312007
>Which is why they are becoming a minority?
Do you not understand that the proportions of demographics has nothing to do with who the institutions favor, and who controls said institutions? You also say becoming because they're not a minority in the present.

>Loyalty to my people supposedly makes me a bad person, but being a proud race traitor makes you virtuous?

No, advocating for unjustified violence makes you a bad person.

>What is that supposed to mean?

If a white person procreates with a non-white person, the child isn't considered white.

>I’d just deport more people if it was necessary. Besides the minority that I’d allow in the country would be almost entirely East Asian, so they wouldn’t pose any major problems.

What if they refuse? What if no one else takes them? Why wouldn't east asian people pose any major problems? What do you mean that others in your camp would accept non-whites?

>Being a minority in any situation is bound to lead to weakness and subjugation by the majority group, unless one fights back.

Why?

vynn (ID: 84e84a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312016

File: 1562684453431.png (1.15 MB, 699x992, 1558131600.charmsey_10sm.png)

>>312011
Excuse me but that's Unamerican, sweetie.

If you want universal healthcare why don't you just MOVE instead of trying to change the land of complete perfection??

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312018

>>312008
>Would people who want to preserve blacks in a majority black, or Asians in a majority asian country as the "privileged" be considered right wing as well?
Yes. Right wing politics are characterized by keeping things the same or preserving existing hierarchies.

>What wing are the people who want to make the "un privileged" people into the privileged people?

I would say that it's left wing until equality, and right wing after. I don't think a one dimensional axis is enough to answer this kind of political science question though.

>I like how you see yourself as some kind of benevolent super genius saviour of man.

At the very least someone who rationalizes their beliefs. Is it too much to ask the same of others?

Mint horse (ID: 887532)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312019

File: 1562685050037.jpg (19.66 KB, 236x253, EC9A8331-12F0-4C58-AE44-6A19E1…)

>>312015
>Do you not understand that the proportions of demographics has nothing to do with who the institutions favor, and who controls said institutions?
If you want to talk about who holds disproportionate control over certain institutions you should be pointing your finger at the Jews, not White people.

>What if they refuse? What if no one else takes them?

Chemical castration in the worst case scenario. But that’s only a hypocritical, I wouldn’t let it get that bad before I took serious action against it.

>Why wouldn't east asian people pose any major problems?

Because East Asians are equal to Whites, and actually have certain superior qualities to White people. Their culture is also far more compatible with White culture.

>What do you mean that others in your camp would accept non-whites?

I’m just saying what I want. Although the reality of the situation is that only way to clean up the current mess we’ve gotten ourselves into is to genocide all the non-Whites that currently live in our countries, and that’s what I predict will happen. I want peaceful deportation, but we all know that’s not possible.

>Why?

I shouldn’t have to explain why being ~100% of the population puts you in a better situation compared to if you were the minority.

Anonymous (ID: f793f8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312021

File: 1562685078692.jpg (26.01 KB, 300x292, [email protected])

>>312016
Well golly ge I guess you're right. I mean to hell with the contributions I built up with my culture.
I guess I deserve to be financially destroyed for wanting to live.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312022

>>312010
I seem to be whenever you first step in, like in >>311957 , but after being blown the fuck out you retreat to a comfy place of dismissal.

Anonymous (ID: f793f8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312023

>>312019
Why not help the minority's get there country back? why does the only options have to be force deportation, chemical castration and killing?
This post was edited by its author on .

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312024

File: 1562685425743.png (326.13 KB, 506x591, 6565487900.png)

>>312022
You made a baseless claim and I called you out

Because it's easy to label a group of being "white supremacists" because you people use it as a very loose definition

You people rely and live on identity politics. It's depressing as hell to see.

I know, you think you're super intelligent and rational

You aren't. Thats why I say you suffer from the dunning krueger effect

You think you're super intelligent and above it all

But you're incompetent as hell.

You act surprised when nobody wants to take you seriously

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312026

Also thinking the people who bully people are good people

Proud boys are assholes

But so is antifa

You're a general piece of shit and I wish you would leave my website

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312027

>>312019
>If you want to talk about who holds disproportionate control over certain institutions you should be pointing your finger at the Jews, not White people.
Heh. JeW iS nOt A rAcE XDDD owned
I don't think you can substantiate that claim, and ashkenazi people are in most cases considered white.

>Chemical castration in the worst case scenario.

That's violence, and I don't think that your team would be satisfied with that.

>Because East Asians are equal to Whites, and actually have certain superior qualities to White people. Their culture is also far more compatible with White culture.

Oh no, pseudoscience memes. Again, I don't think fascism ends at east asians.

>I’m just saying what I want. Although the reality of the situation is that only way to clean up the current mess we’ve gotten ourselves into is to genocide all the non-Whites that currently live in our countries, and that’s what I predict will happen. I want peaceful deportation, but we all know that’s not possible.

So you are a bad person.

>I shouldn’t have to explain why being ~100% of the population puts you in a better situation compared to if you were the minority.

Of course you do.

Anonymous (ID: f793f8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312030

>>312019
Wait being jewish is a race?

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312031

>>312027
You're also a bad person though

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312033

File: 1562686362147.png (574.12 KB, 1044x1080, Screenshot_20190610-113131_1.p…)

>>312018
Well, I'm glad you at least know that.
>At the very least someone who rationalizes their beliefs. Is it too much to ask the same of others?
You're someone who puts your beliefs on a pedestal, treats them like dogma, and fights anyone who disagrees.
You just jump into and make threads to bait people into a verbal chess game, rather than have a discussion, which is why your always asking loaded questions and making "ironic" statements, then you turn to insults when all else fails. You don't rationalize anything, you just look for confirmation of your own bias.

It's a shame because you were pretty fun to talk to durring the debate thread, maybe I just have to be drinking to level with you.

Mint horse (ID: 887532)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312034

File: 1562686544460.png (2.03 MB, 1800x3000, 2F2BE027-C718-45AA-A3D6-2F7E18…)

>>312023
>Why not help the minority's get there country back?
Yeah, that’s exactly what I want to do by deporting them.

>>312027
Not even going to respond to this.

>>312030
They’re both a race and a religion.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312035

File: 1562686561914.jpg (98.21 KB, 799x792, centrism.png)

>>312024
>You made a baseless claim and I called you out
It isn't baseless and if questioned can and has been substantiated.

>Because it's easy to label a group of being "white supremacists" because you people use it as a very loose definition

Compared to your definition which seems to be ridiculously strict. Basically nothing short of full blown admittance is enough.

>You people rely and live on identity politics. It's depressing as hell to see.

First of all identity politics in itself isn't a positive or negative thing. Secondly, how is "white" politics not considered identitarian in nature?

>>312026
>Proud boys are assholes
>But so is antifa
<

Lisbon (ID: acfc9e)Country code: templeos.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312036

>>311933
please sever your ethernet cable

Anonymous (ID: 375e1a)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312038

I like antifa because they're individual people taking direct action.

Anonymous (ID: f793f8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312039

>>312034
>Yeah, that’s exactly what I want to do by deporting them.

..............................
HOW'S THAT HELPING THEM?
This post was edited by its author on .

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312040

File: 1562686889707.png (357.58 KB, 507x691, 655464565487876.png)

>>312035
I knew you were gonna say this

This is why I don't bother

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312042

File: 1562686973723.png (365.38 KB, 583x524, 15484896989.PNG)

>>312024
I really don't think foxanon can ever be saved. Every confrontation with evidence or reasoning that opposes his positions is met with disregard.

You can lead a horse (or fox in this case) to water but you can't make it drink.

Mint horse (ID: 887532)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312043

File: 1562687007755.png (491.43 KB, 805x1024, 01A182CE-5D8F-44CB-B659-DEB287…)

>>312039
It’s helping us.

Anonymous (ID: f793f8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312044

>>312043
Dude, what the fuck.

Are you insane!?

You don't go joking like that when you're having a none joking discussion about things like this.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312045

File: 1562687428219.png (456.78 KB, 651x728, 6565465477867.png)

Mint horse (ID: 887532)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312048

File: 1562687805578.jpg (14.56 KB, 180x279, 12F82CC9-3F4D-4E5F-BD5E-6FE2F5…)

>>312044
I’m not joking.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312051

>>312031
How?

>>312033
>You're someone who puts your beliefs on a pedestal, treats them like dogma, and fights anyone who disagrees.
What, you want me to roll over and abandon my position the moment I'm presented with another? What, you want me to just let people have their harmful opinions and not confront them for fun? There are some things that aren't a matter of opinion, given very standard axioms like a) everyone has certain rights, b) you shouldn't infringe on those rights and c) you should maximize well being.

>You just jump into and make threads to bait people into a verbal chess game

What the hell is wrong with that? At best it challenges preconcieved notions of others and possibly gives them a new perspective.

>rather than have a discussion

I don't understand how you, without fail, come to the conclusion that I'm not having a discussion. It's like a discussion to you never has either party challenging what the other says.

>which is why [you're] always asking loaded questions and making "ironic" statements

Being provocative isn't a sin.

>then you turn to insults when all else fails

Is there anything you consider an insult in this thread?

>You don't rationalize anything, you just look for confirmation of your own bias.

If you feel like I don't, question it. I don't understand why other people don't do so. If I say something, I can probably rationalize it if questioned.

>It's a shame because you were pretty fun to talk to durring the debate thread, maybe I just have to be drinking to level with you.

Because I was saying things that you could agree with quite easily. I found your takes questionable nontheless, but didn't bother to confront them because of the fast pace and preocupation.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312055

>>312040
Fucking come on. Why are you always one question away from falling apart?

Anonymous (ID: f793f8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312056

File: 1562688296576.png (63.16 KB, 303x391, lost.png)

>>312048
I swear between you and foxanon.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312057

File: 1562688466233.png (202.42 KB, 324x533, 6554768768.png)

>>312055
You do nothing but label people and start gatekeeping with politics

No shit, I'm gonna disregard your rhetoric

Also you're a bad person because you support antifa

A group who attacks people just for supporting their own president (and no I'm not talking about the proud boys)

Anonymous (ID: 375e1a)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312058

File: 1562688481450.png (95.79 KB, 574x559, 1430847404.teelhavok_sophieedg…)

>>312051
>There are some things that aren't a matter of opinion, given very standard axioms like a) everyone has certain rights, b) you shouldn't infringe on those rights and c) you should maximize well being.

Name the immutable principle of reality that guarantees everyone always has these rights, and that they're not just a convenient thing we jerk each other off with.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312061

File: 1562688571949.png (396.65 KB, 794x814, Screenshot_20190610-120244_1.p…)

>>312051
Oh cool, now your doing the grammar thing too haha.
That puts you on God mode and no one can compete.
>What the hell is wrong with that?
>I don't understand how you, without fail, come to the conclusion that I'm not having a discussion.
>Being provocative isn't a sin.

This whole thread is just garbage bait, and you only made it to cause drama.
And it worked, mikie and starshine and others are now just depressed, everyone argued and no one learned anything.

Your so wise, proactive and woke.

And hey, you gave mint a place to spread his shit around too! Gj.

>but didn't bother to confront them because of the fast pace and preocupation.

I guess I take back my one positive opinion of you then.
So now Im back thinking your just a troll, but who can't even keep up haha.
This post was edited by its author on .

Ika (ID: 2b91c9)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312063

File: 1562688643457.png (359.08 KB, 507x596, Screenshot_260.png)

Are you here to steal my fucking job?
I'm the one that makes others feel miserable in here.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312067

File: 1562688882273.png (429.04 KB, 662x593, 6576576576575687.png)

>>312063
I like you so much better.

Ika make a better thread

Please

Mythix (pchans supervillain)!wG1CV58ydQ (ID: 3d215f)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312068

File: 1562688885457.jpg (69.81 KB, 704x396, 2845CAC2-B6A6-41AB-AC8E-D07B1A…)

>>312063
That’s actually my job you little shit.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312069

>>312057
>You do nothing but label people and start gatekeeping with politics
What is wrong with labeling people? If I do so, there must be a reason, no? Where have I gatekeeped anything?

>A group who attacks people just for supporting their own president (and no I'm not talking about the proud boys)

Firstly, antifa isn't a singular group. Secondly, don't you think supporting Trump is kind of bad? I don't know what case you're talking about, I'm going to need some context.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312073

>>312058
I'm not able to, and why do I have to? Rights are generally agreed upon things written into law or some shit. It's an axiom for a reason, and I put it in an if statement.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312074

File: 1562689083589.png (261.49 KB, 447x540, 6565476587699.png)

>>312069
Dude I will say trump made bad choices.

But not THAT bad to assosaicte his supporters with Nazis

What the fuck?
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: 375e1a)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312079

File: 1562689475555.jpg (46.57 KB, 800x667, 1562552727298.jpg)

>>312057
>Also you're a bad person because you support antifa
>
>A group who attacks people just for supporting their own president (and no I'm not talking about the proud boys)

Antifa doesn't wait for permission to attack its enemies, so why should you?

Be the change you wish to see in the world! Get mad!
Make life take the lemons back!
Who's stopping you? Just you.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312081

>>312061
>Oh cool, now your doing the grammar thing too haha.
you're*

>This whole thread is just garbage bait, and you only made it to cause drama.

Why the fuck would you assume that? I made it so that someone with the assumption that antifa is bad could get educated or have their views questioned. It's too bad that you two always go after my person after two damn replies instead of keeping to the subject.

>And hey, you gave mint a place to spread his shit around too! Gj.

In my opinion I challenged his bullshit adequately.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: ebc6da)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312085

File: 1562689784892.jpg (18.18 KB, 720x480, FB_IMG_1559138028515.jpg)

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312091

File: 1562690005194.png (120.82 KB, 305x278, drt67.PNG)

>>312081
I assume that because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt of at least being smart enough to understand cause and effect, but I guess I'm giving you too much credit.

I mean, Ika does it too, but at least he has self awareness. I didn't realize you really thought of yourself as a pragmatic politcal zelot out to correct the masses of ponychan when you make garbage threads.

Now I just feel bad.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312092

>>312061
About the discussion thing too.

Why the hell would I write out a 30 paragraph wall of text outlining every single underlying fact that led me to conclude, for example, that antifascists are doing a good thing, if the person I'm having a discussion with already agrees? Or why would I write the part where I lay out my framework for thinking that fascism is bad, if the person I'm having a discussion with already agrees?

Skipping out on that stuff and elaborating if needed is like the definition of just trying to have a conversation, so it's so weird that you would call me out on not trying to have one.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312094

>>312074
Again, I have no idea what case you're talking about so I can't say either way.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312096

File: 1562690533388.png (489.02 KB, 836x945, Screenshot_2018-08-05-22-31-03…)

>>312092
Uh, fine.

Whatever it is your doing you look stupid doing it.

So if your playing dumb, or you really are this self unaware, it's the same outcome.

And tbh, it's getting boring and I'm kinda sick of you getting good people like starshine and mikie all pissed off and depressed in the wake of your incessant need to autisticly post extremist political shit on the pony website.
Get a life, tool.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312100

>>312091
So to you it's unfathomable to transition from a provocative "bait" to an actual discussion?

>I didn't realize you really thought of yourself as a pragmatic politcal zelot out to correct the masses of ponychan when you make garbage threads.

Yeah, it's fucking fun to make people change their minds or prove them wrong. To you it's fun to talk about the weather or what happened to you during the day or getting to know what the other person likes on their pizza, but that shit bores me to tears.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312102

File: 1562690712054.png (318.78 KB, 566x484, 465989897845.PNG)

>>312100
Nah, to me it's fun to make friends and be a part of a community.

To you it's just fun to start shit constantly.
And if that's fun for you, great, go to a chan divisible by 2, because it's not fun for anyone else.
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312106

File: 1562691021290.png (235.56 KB, 422x444, 898989870.png)

>>312094
i mean okay, im not going to show you examples here because its youtube vids and anecdotal

that wont be acceptable to you
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312108

>>312096
>Whatever it is your doing you look stupid doing it.
Ok, Mr. "exchange positions and walk away".

>And tbh, it's getting boring and I'm kinda sick of you getting good people like starshine and mikie all pissed off and depressed in the wake of your incessant need to autisticly post extremist political shit on the pony website.

How the hell are you pushing blame on me for people willingly participating in the thread?

>>312102
That's what I fucking said.

vynn (ID: 06569d)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312112

File: 1562691524898.jpg (86.91 KB, 689x1020, D9lmGGkU4AArADn.jpeg)

>>312100
>To you it's fun to talk about the weather or what happened to you during the day or getting to know what the other person likes on their pizza, but that shit bores me to tears.
Do you not have a single interest outside of politics?

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312113

File: 1562691572446.png (201.9 KB, 369x405, 212121376.png)

>>312112
he literally doesn't from what i can see

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312115

>>312106
You can talk about specific cases without making a larger statement based on those cases. Something being anecdotal doesn't make it automatically not worth discussing at all, it's just that when you make a sweeping conclusion off of anecdotes that it goes bad.

Example:
This apple is green. "It looks light green to me."
vs.
This apple is green, therefor all apples are green.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312116

>>312112
Yeah, but talking about them generally isn't fun, especially when it's just an exchange of preferences or whatever.

Philosophy is fun to talk about, and that manifests easily in politics.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312117

File: 1562691896501.jpg (27.06 KB, 527x444, JPEG_20180910_163847.jpg)

>>312108
Because you're the catylist.
You're the Trump of this situation haha.
If you're life is so pathetic that the only thing that brings you Joy is pissing people off on the one of the smallest message boards on the internet, and you feel like it's your duty or some shit to "prove them wrong"... Well thats rough.

You're the obstructionist, because nothing of value or substance comes from your threads, it only ether pushes people deeper into their corner, or makes them give up entirely.

I think you should put your money where your mouth is, come to the states, join antifa and get knocked out by a gas canister if it's that friggen important to you.
To me, if your not a troll, then your just another Nazi-like fuck who needs to scream their beliefs, and this thread just solidifies that.
Your just mint with another lable and a shitty personality.

>That's what I fucking said.

Then go.
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312119

File: 1562692018281.png (445.43 KB, 636x653, 654648798.png)

>>312115
there are hundreds of youtube videos showing anitfa attacking people for nothing more than supporting their president

i wanna show you examples but i know you will ignore them

hence why i dont wanna bother

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312133

>>312117
Do you type wrong on purpose or something?

>You're the Trump of this situation haha.

I don't get the comparison at all.

>If you're life is so pathetic that the only thing that brings you Joy is pissing people off on the one of the smallest message boards on the internet

It's not the pissing people off part, I fucking wish people would keep their chill and just continued the conversation.

>you feel like it's your duty or some shit to "prove them wrong"...

Jesus fucking christ.

>because nothing of value or substance comes from your threads

I don't know how you would even begin to quantify that. If I enjoy them, your claim is already invalid.

>it only ether pushes people deeper into their corner, or makes them give up entirely

Yeah, I don't get it.

>I think you should put your money where your mouth is, come to the states, join antifa and get knocked out by a gas canister if it's that friggen important to you.

Just because I think that antifa action is good doesn't mean I have the courage or need to participate.

>then your just another Nazi-like fuck who needs to scream their beliefs

Actually what the fuck.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312136

>>312119
>there are hundreds of youtube videos showing anitfa attacking people for nothing more than supporting their president
Don't you think it's somewhat justified if you're for example trans, or hispanic, or whatever? Or do you think people are free of consequence for supporting policy that directly harms other people's life?

Do I think it's very productive? No. Am I sceptical about your premise of "just supporting your president"? Absolutely.

>i wanna show you examples but i know you will ignore them

Why would I?

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312138

File: 1562694320262.png (490.36 KB, 657x570, 46543.PNG)

>>312133
>Do you type wrong on purpose or something?
I have been, yes.

>I fucking wish people would keep their chill and just continued the conversation.

<it only ether pushes people deeper into their corner, or makes them give up entirely
>Yeah, I don't get it.

This is some rough stuff my man.
Maybe you should start paying attention then and using some basic pattern recognition.

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312140

File: 1562694419819.png (486.39 KB, 778x685, 767698980.png)

>>312136
>Don't you think it's somewhat justified if you're for example trans, or hispanic, or whatever? Or do you think people are free of consequence for supporting policy that directly harms other people's life?
thats completely subjective

and the people who reside in antifa are scrawny white people anyway

to add to that, trump hasnt signed anything to law that oppresses these groups at a very terrible rate

if anything he has abused exhaustive power with ATF changing the NFA laws

>Why would I?

because you do so literally every time

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312147

>>312140
>thats completely subjective
What part in what way?

>and the people who reside in antifa are scrawny white people anyway

How do you know how they've been affected? What if they're there to aid others who are? For example the civil rights movement wasn't just black people protesting.

>to add to that, trump hasnt signed anything to law that oppresses these groups at a very terrible rate

I found this: https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/
I don't think you can argue that the Trump presidency hasn't caused increased tension against minorities. Not only with legislation, but rhetoric and emboldening the base that voted him in.

>if anything he has abused exhaustive power with ATF changing the NFA laws

What the heck do bump-stock bans have to do with helping out minorities?

>because you do so literally every time

I'm being gaslighted. Give me a case already.

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312150

File: 1562696708483.png (96.31 KB, 185x377, 6787687689.png)

>>312147
>What part in what way?
by the way it works

>How do you know how they've been affected? What if they're there to aid others who are?

it usually takes two eyes

>What the heck do bump-stock bans have to do with helping out minorities?

it's this thing called an example

>'m being gaslighted. Give me a case already.

no you arent. im not gonna go through to find out when were arent confrontational

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312153

>>312150
It just is cause it is, I guess.

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312154

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312155

File: 1562697392808.png (1.52 MB, 2028x1345, 1532389670912.png)

Ah, so ends another great political discussion started by fox.

I think we all learned a little something, and came to better understand each other positions.

Content suited for /arch/.

Ika (ID: 2b91c9)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312157

File: 1562697532822.png (191.19 KB, 380x451, Screenshot_34.png)

>>312155
Don't you dare defile the sacred halls of arch, those memories were from a better time long gone and should be respected.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312159

File: 1562697716902.jpg (15.43 KB, 335x371, th (1).jpeg)

>>312157
Do you think Lauren Faust ever come back to check in on this place?

I think she posts Anon.

Ika (ID: 2b91c9)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312162

File: 1562697940547.png (212.04 KB, 380x386, Screenshot_120.png)

>>312159
For the sake of her sanity I seriously hope she doesn't.
Plus I'm sure she has more important stuff to do than visiting this derelict hellscape.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: a5700b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312166

File: 1562698076066.png (218.69 KB, 477x479, 77774147.PNG)

>>312162
She's a cartoonist, I doubt she has much more going on.

She could actually be any one of us who hasn't been met irl.

vynn (ID: e7aeaa)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312172

File: 1562699339820.png (84.68 KB, 249x236, 1562521799029.png)

>>312159
Lauren Faust IS Foxanon

Anonymous (ID: 8efe32)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312173

File: 1562699519193.jpg (89.29 KB, 772x1034, fausticorn.jpg)

>>312166
Nice dubs.

We've had parts of this conversation before. Mama Faust has a young child and a show running job that I doubt she's willing to risk by playing around in the fires we stoke here daily. Making the house payments and paying off the medical bills (last time I looked, just having the baby in a hospital costs over $75,000!) comes long before trolling on a chan.

She put her MLP toy collection away long ago.

PS, her hair is a much brighter red than this photo shows. You would know if you ever saw her in person.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 7ac63c)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312175

File: 1562699807055.png (263.87 KB, 766x768, Screenshot_20190524-223312_1.p…)

>>312172
She's just trying to get inspiration for conflict on up coming projects.

>>312173
Your hair looks fine, geez.

AustroSpike (ID: 4b74f8)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312182

>>312173
>last time I looked, just having the baby in a hospital costs over $75,000!
This is freedooooom

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 7ac63c)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312183

File: 1562700713125.png (536.57 KB, 982x884, Screenshot_20190629-000104_1.p…)

>>312182
Except that's almost 75x the normal rate.

Great, now we are in politics again... We almost saved this thread.
This post was edited by its author on .

Whelp (ID: 7db3c8)Country code: goggles.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312190

>>311995

> Let's say you have a reporter who doxxes a person after they have their spine broken by a Proud Boy at a "not a white nationalist" rally. Is it justified to punch them in the face and throw milkshakes at them at another "not a white nationalist" rally?


No. That's vigilante justice, and it's illegal for a reason. The courts and laws are far from perfect, but they're a hell of a lot better than randos going around doling out "justice" as they see fit. Also, in light of the above paragraph, how can you claim that:

> The violent thug narrative is overblown


Because the behavior you're describing is what I'd use to define violent thugs, regardless of what their reasoning is.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I don't go around condemning the white nationalists is because the vast majority of sensible people can tell that what those guys are doing is wrong. Yet, somehow, perfectly sensible people seem to think extra-judicial "justice" becomes okay when the victims deserve it. It doesn't. Laws mean nothing if they don't apply to both the righteous and the sinful alike.

(ID: 188032)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312234

File: 1562708435010.jpg (46.35 KB, 1080x1080, 51687497_241221963498352_83869…)

Aren't Antifa liberal though?

Is this bait?

🐓 (ID: 6e5905)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312237

IIRC, Antifa and Proud Boys are just violent thugs. I say we lock them in an arena together and charge admission to see them fight each other.

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312238

File: 1562709713040.png (204.67 KB, 488x499, 324343432666.png)

>>312234
not really

but they're for sure assholes

yes its bait and i hate myself for taking it

Mk17!!Trixie (ID: 314fb0)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312243

File: 1562710192657.png (165.65 KB, 478x441, 1550856027441.png)

>>312234
It depends on the many, many different ways the word "liberal" has been skewed and perverted.

But yeah, it think its safe to assume its bait haha.

>>312237
cockanon 2020!

Anonymous (ID: 9b2c1f)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312283

File: 1562713956228.jpg (72.2 KB, 437x600, 193704.jpg)

>>311945
>>Proud Boys
>libertarians
What are you smoking, Mint?

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: df018d)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312285

File: 1562714069493.png (303.13 KB, 730x790, 65722137_p4.png)

>>311919
They're not violent enough. Imagine being a part of a violent group that brags about being less violent than their enemies. Why would a real man have any interest in that group?

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312487

>>312190
>No. That's vigilante justice, and it's illegal for a reason. The courts and laws are far from perfect, but they're a hell of a lot better than randos going around doling out "justice" as they see fit.
So you don't think that any unlawful violence is ever justified? Let's say there's a law that lets men beat up women but not the other way around. Is it justified for the women to enact violence on men beating them up?

>Also, in light of the above paragraph, how can you claim that:

Because my threshold of categorizing an ideal as just violent thugs is much higher than singular cases.

>regardless of what their reasoning is

That would make for example the police violent thugs, a person defending their home a violent thug, etc. At that point I would call the term violent thug nearly meaningless in terms of connotation.

>I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I don't go around condemning the white nationalists is because the vast majority of sensible people can tell that what those guys are doing is wrong.

That's perfectly fine.

>Yet, somehow, perfectly sensible people seem to think extra-judicial "justice" becomes okay when the victims deserve it. It doesn't. Laws mean nothing if they don't apply to both the righteous and the sinful alike.

Regarding laws as your morality seems kind of dangerous. Being good doesn't mean being lawful.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312488

>>312234
I mean technically you could be liberal and antifascist at the same time, but antifascism isn't a political ideology in itself. Heck, you could be fascist and antifascist at the same time. Antifascism just means being against fascism.

Toybox(Professional Slut)!!Celestia (ID: 3f9ada)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312586

File: 1562776160809.png (1.15 MB, 1920x1080, Screenshot_20181002-100405.png)

>>312488
>Heck, you could be fascist and antifascist at the same time. Antifascism just means being against fascism.


But...
How can you be facist and against facism at the same time?

That... doesn't....

You can't just...

What?
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 47f0a9)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312587

File: 1562776344613.png (581.65 KB, 1047x921, 1532462857522.png)

>>312586
I figured he meant that you can be anti fascist, living under a fascist society.

!CrONAHEG2c (ID: 7fb76d)Country code: ca, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312608

File: 1562779207862.png (1.08 MB, 1920x1090, Beta_121.png)

I realize this is a minor part of this shitshow to focus on, but:

>>311995
>>312190
>bringing up the milkshake thing once again

I seriously hope people here don't actually think that comparing getting your clothes messy to being physically assaulted makes a lick of sense.

I know that wasn't what was said here but it's a thing that's infuriated me ever since the first incident began.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312610

File: 1562779948038.png (478.59 KB, 1024x1024, 576143.png)

>>312608
>I seriously hope people here don't actually think that comparing getting your clothes messy to being physically assaulted makes a lick of sense.
If throwing quick-drying cement on someone with the intention of causing chemical burns isn't physical assault, I don't know what is.

Are acid attacks not assault, either, because it's just a friendly little dousing?

vynn (ID: f67141)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312613

File: 1562780050108.png (584.24 KB, 589x720, 1487526542420.png)

>>312610
Whatre you talking about

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312614

File: 1562780104800.jpg (70.03 KB, 682x961, 30_min_chalenge_maud_pie_crava…)

>>312613 Andy Ngo

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312616

File: 1562780224259.png (534.31 KB, 749x699, 6765878768.png)

>>312613
he's talking about people who psychically assault another by throwing milkshakes at someone who politically disagrees with them

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312617

File: 1562780378328.png (2.76 MB, 1754x1240, 809027__safe_solo_looking+at+y…)

>>312616 somewhat, but the more important thing is that a "milkshake" is not necessarily a milkshake. It's just an excuse for someone to say "it's harmless!" while simultaneously giving them cover to cause disfiguration and physical harm. same way you can hide a rock in a snowball. and this isn't hypothetical

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312618

File: 1562780536884.png (468.33 KB, 638x675, 98799090.png)

>>312617
i know

the left never do anything wrong

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312620

File: 1562780667274.png (664.27 KB, 1244x1080, Screenshot_20190610-113144_1.p…)

>>312614
I couldn't find anything about quick drying cement, but I found this
>On June 29, 2019, while filming a counter protest to a Proud Boys march in Portland, Ngo was repeatedly punched by Antifa protesters in his head and face, and the protesters also threw milkshakes on him.[25] Ngo was subsequently taken to hospital for a brain bleed.

Honestly though, reading about this guy, he doesn't sound like just a reporter, he sounds like an activist and an instigator. So like, if your going to a place where punches are being thrown, and you get punched, you can't really be surprised.
This post was edited by its author on .

vynn (ID: 58fa19)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312621

File: 1562780689686.jpg (49.56 KB, 500x500, 1562630980452.jpg)

>>312616
I got the milk shake part, but not the chemical burns part


>>312614
Searching "Andy Ngo cement" is giving me articles that he made up a rumor that people were putting cement in milk shakes, but that there's no proof anyone did.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312622

File: 1562780759927.png (493.35 KB, 821x945, Screenshot_2018-08-05-23-17-17…)

>>312621
>Searching "Andy Ngo cement" is giving me articles that he made up a rumor that people were putting cement in milk shakes, but that there's no proof anyone did.
Also my experience.

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312625

File: 1562780890628.png (244.46 KB, 478x437, 657657657.png)

>>312621
with you there

i should have read into it farther

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312629

File: 1562781067728.png (279.22 KB, 1208x1024, 5761451.png)

>>312620 He reports on Antifa, and Antifa doesn't like being reported on. So that's grounds for sending him to the hospital I guess?
I thought we lived in America, where people's freedom of movement isn't restricted? Perhaps I'm mistaken.
>>312621 That was the initial police report.

!CrONAHEG2c (ID: 7fb76d)Country code: ca, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312633

File: 1562781343031.jpg (134.87 KB, 1060x1499, 1490149221434.jpg)

>>312610

If someone actually does that, then yeah, it's assault.

It's not the act of throwing something at someone that should be deemed assault by default, it should be what's thrown. If it's actually just a milkshake, boo fucking hoo, someone's clothes are a bit messy.

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312635

File: 1562781458305.png (389.55 KB, 836x696, 767657657.png)

>>312633
i mean boo fucking hoo if someone says "nigger" too

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312638

File: 1562781600518.png (1.05 MB, 1920x1440, 1532987594478.png)

>>312621
>>312625
This is the closest I found to "evidence"
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/06/portland-police-milkshakes-thrown-by-antifa-reportedly-made-with-quick-drying-cement/
The police said they got a report of it, but that's hearsay, I would say that it would have been on the medical report and highly publicized if it did indeed contain that, and if it did, that it actually did anything.

>>312629
>I thought this was America.
Yeah, I mean it is. You can film the crips too, but your still going to get beat up.
No where did I say it was justified, just that if your going to be a counter activist to violent activists, getting punched is bound to happen.

Reading more of his stuff, I think he was probably pretty excited as he seems to do this stuff for publicity.

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312640

File: 1562781723480.png (461.49 KB, 835x692, 8787867868.png)

>>312638
>expecting me to read police reports
amendment number 5 folks

dont talk to them

!CrONAHEG2c (ID: 7fb76d)Country code: ca, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312648

File: 1562782669278.jpg (296.52 KB, 1134x1557, Lapis_by_Rebecca_Sugar.jpg)

>>312635

Well if you really want to get into that can of worms...

On the one hand, I completely understand why people get mad at that. It's a word that's tied to a lot of racial oppression stretching back centuries, and no matter what anyone does that will have always happened. You can't change that and perhaps the feeling is that keeping the word taboo makes sure people don't forget it.

On the other hand, in my personal uninformed opinion, I think not giving the word any more power and letting it fall out of use would help get rid of a lot of animosity that's still present today. Not all of it, of course, but it could help.

Either way I don't see why you'd draw that comparison.

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312653

File: 1562783059122.png (395.66 KB, 552x751, 9780909098.png)

>>312648
the point is either one of offensive

one being physically assaulting if anything

⛵☎!XSAILBoatg (ID: b8c173)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312657

>>312633 if someone points an unloaded gun at someone 'pretending' is a real gun, they forfeit their life. Same goes with any assault. When someoneis pummeling you, you don't know if they intend to kill you or not, so you are justified in fighting back with lethal force. Now that milkshaking is a meme, and people know that milkshakes aren't necessarily milkshakes, you are justified in using lethal force to defend yourself against this sort of attack. The solution is this, don't be a milkshake throwing little shit.

>>312638 the police got the report... from the police. They ended up being mistaken, but it's forever out there now as a thing to do to your political rivals.

1) having a political opinion does not make you an activist. Pushing for positions does.
2) that still justifies nothing.
3) victim blaming to the extreme
This post was edited by its author on .

vynn (ID: 58fa19)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312659

File: 1562783966896.jpg (193.65 KB, 1849x2048, D-Etdm_XkAUC_J3.jpeg)

I'm not even gonna really defend the whole milkshaking thing. Like except with that first English (?) politician that had it happen which was kinda humorous at first. I'll say a few things I think...

- Milkshaking getting more wide spread I'm just tired of. Turning this into mobs of people throwing milkshakes at people they disagree with is idk just dumb

- That said, I'll also say that while it's still *technically* assault in some legal sense, it's also one of those things I don't find *that* horrible in the grand scheme. I don't care for it as a practice, but I also don't agree with the people who say things like "first it's milkshakes then it will be bricks"

!CrONAHEG2c (ID: 7fb76d)Country code: ca, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312660

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>>312653

But the severity of the two actions aren't related. You can't compare using a term that is widely regarded as insensitive at best and offensive at worst to throwing ice cream at someone.

That in and of itself could be considered offensive to anyone who would be offended by the n-word. That you'd draw that comparison arguably belittles what they have to deal with.

>>312657

That is absolute nonsense.

If someone whips out a milkshake with the intent to throw it, and the potential victim pulls out a gun and shoots that person, literally no one in their right mind would side with the gunman. Saying "well I didn't know what was in the cup" is not an excuse. Until the liquid makes contact with someone and people know what it actually is, any judgment calls you make are based on pure assumption and not fact.

>don't be a milkshake throwing little shit


Then tell me how people are supposed to express their displeasure in a way that the people in power will actually listen?

Protests are easily ignored, as are picketing and signs and whatnot. This makes it very clear what people think, and gives someone a humbling dose of humiliation in the process.

If someone uses something lethal then obviously they need to be punished for it. But you have to judge these things on a case-by-case basis. You can't just group the whole thing into one category because someone may or may not have gone too far.

(ID: 45a37b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312663

File: 1562784227470.png (404.99 KB, 515x756, 5465476876998.png)

>>312660
saying "nigger" is legal and there is theres a constitutional amendment here involving that;

while throwing a milshake at someone isnt

thars actually aassualt

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: eeaeec)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312666

File: 1562784395341.png (689.28 KB, 670x804, 67806779_p4.png)

>>312648
Keeping the word taboo does nothing but sell hip-hop records to cucked white kids with no culture.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312669

File: 1562784579526.png (1.01 MB, 1619x1245, 1532523834689.png)

>>312657
>2) that still justifies nothing.
Here, let me try something.

>>312638
>NO WHERE DID WE SAY IT WAS JUSTIFIED, JUST THAT IF THINE GOING TO BE A COUNTER ACTIVIST TO VIOLENT ACTIVISTS, GETTING PUNCHED IS BOUND TO HAPPEN.

I hope you saw it that time.

Reguardless, you can call in a threat to the police, and they might warn people that the threat is there, but that doesn't make it true.
I work with cement all the time, and I think this threat is being over blown... That's what I mean that he seems like just an instigator and an activist... It's not okay for people on the left to cry wolf come up with fake threats, and participate in violent protests, so to me it's also not okay when people do it on the right.

I'm not "victim blaming" I'm just saying, reading the history of this dude, seems like kind of a sjw jerk.

BUT THATS NOT A JUSTIFICATION OF VIOLENCE AGAINST HIM
Simply saying, it's not a surprise.

Ika (ID: 2b91c9)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312674

File: 1562784697171.png (264.64 KB, 451x472, Screenshot_60.png)

If you are going to stand in the way of justice then expect nothing but to be just another roadkill.

⛵☎!XSAILBoatg (ID: b8c173)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312676

>>312660 doesn't matter what's in the cup. The fact is, your being assaulted, and you don't know what's coming after the milkshake. See: Andy Ngo.

How are you expecting someone to get a forensic analysis of the contents of a cup, as is being thrown on them, before they respond to it? "Hey that shit that's burning your eyes, you can't prove it's acid, so it's just a prank, bro!"

>Then tell me how people are supposed to express their displeasure in a way that the people in power will actually listen?

By not acting like petulant children throwing temper tantrums.
Everyone takes their shoes of at the airport because of one failed bombing. If you throw a milkshake at me, you forfeit your life.

⛵☎!XSAILBoatg (ID: b8c173)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312678

>>312669 if you wear a trump hat in public, and you get beat up, you shouldn't be surprised and you had it coming amirite

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: eeaeec)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312680

File: 1562785060318.png (424.44 KB, 650x700, 65089479_p1.png)

>>312678
Well you should be surprised if you live in a Trump state, but yeah you def had it coming

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2o (ID: 7044e8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312684

>>312660
>Then tell me how people are supposed to express their displeasure in a way that the people in power will actually listen?
This is why people hate leftists. They believe they are all special, oppressed, and should belong to some protected class that can cry and assault anyone that disagrees with them, and shouldn't have to deal with the consequences.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: eeaeec)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312686

>>312684
I hate leftists because they can't meme

!CrONAHEG2c (ID: 7fb76d)Country code: ca, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312689

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>>312663

Well that's just stupid.

What's the actual law in this case? Just throwing anything at anyone is assault regardless?

>>312666

Shit, maybe.

>>312676

Now you're being facetious. The point was that you don't act, you react. You don't shoot someone before you get something thrown at you, because then you are the aggressor responding to what you only perceive as a threat. If you are harmed first, then you are justified in your actions, not before.

>by not acting like petulant children throwing temper tantrums


That's not an answer. That's you just telling people to shut up and stop complaining. Which will never happen.

>if you throw a milkshake at me, you forfeit your life


OK bro, good luck getting away with that.

>>312684

I still don't see the leaps in logic here. I'm pointing out that throwing a milkshake at someone shouldn't be considered assault by default. Regardless of who's throwing it or who's getting hit, it's a cup full of half-melted ice cream, and the worst thing that'll happen is that they'll need to take a shower afterwards.

It feels like a severe overreaction to call it assault if it's just a milkshake and not something else.

⛵☎!XSAILBoatg (ID: b8c173)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312690

>>312689 you don't wait until the other person shoots you to shoot back, when there is every indication they're going to shoot you.

I'm not telling you to shut up or stop complaining. I'm telling you to not act like a Mongoloid when you do it.

Look up the definition of assault. You're confusing it with battery.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312691

File: 1562785757806.png (1.03 MB, 1227x1215, 1533049086125.png)

>>312678
This is the problem I'm having with the "right" lately. What you're doing now, and what these "reporters" are doing is straight out of the playbook of what they claim to hate.

It's not okay for anyone to call in false reports to the police, lie about the dangers of a substance and blow things out of proportion just to make it look worse than it is. Left or right.

I mean, you're clearly not listening to me at all, even when I make it comicly bold text, that I'm not saying it's justified or correct. But your just going to keep repeating that I guess, which is again, a tactic used by the those you claim to not like.

I don't understand that logic.

⛵☎!XSAILBoatg (ID: b8c173)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312692

>>312691 I read it. But your text contradicts itself, hence I don't believe you.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312693

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>>312692
How so?
Maybe explaining that instead of standoffishness, hyberoblic questions and "amirite?" will lead us to some kind of understanding.

⛵☎!XSAILBoatg (ID: b8c173)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312694

>>312693 you say you don't support the attack, yet spend the vast majority of your posts saying he had it coming and how this attack was actually a good thing. The fact that he was taken tothehospital with a brain bleed is ok because it was 'only' milkshakes. Like this is a normal expected thing that happens on the streets of America in broad daylight while the police refuse to intervene.
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Ika (ID: 2b91c9)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312697

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>>312693
Yea like, do you want to be this guy?
>>312245
Or this guy?
>>312261
And lets not even talk about this guy
>>312288

Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2o (ID: 7044e8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312700

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>>312689
>I still don't see the leaps in logic here. I'm pointing out that throwing a milkshake at someone shouldn't be considered assault by default. Regardless of who's throwing it or who's getting hit, it's a cup full of half-melted ice cream, and the worst thing that'll happen is that they'll need to take a shower afterwards.
Violence escalates. We have already seen milkshakes turn into concrete.

We can give it a whirl: if you give me your address and your list of daily whereabouts and activities, I can follow you around all day and throw milkshakes at you--whether they hit you or not--and I bet we'd both enjoy the loss of freedom and security you'll feel, no matter how minor it is.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312702

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>>312694
>yet spend the vast majority of your posts saying he had it coming and how this attack was actually a good thing. The fact that he was taken tothehospital with a brain bleed is ok because it was 'only' milkshakes. Like this is a normal expected thing that happens on the streets of America in broad daylight while the police refuse to intervene.
Did I?
I'm going to need you to quote that to me, because I don't remember saying any of that, and I can't find it in my posts.

I think you're filling in some gaps here.

I mean, you did say that this person was attacked with chemicals here >>312610
And then admitted that it was a lie here >>312657

And now you're putting words in mouth to call my integrity into question.

Dosnt seem like a good faith conversation I'm having tbh.

But my position remains the same, it's not right that it happened, but I'm also not surprised that it did.
I would also not be surprised if a little pride boy beat the crap out of an antifa that was instigating him.
They are all jerks actively seeking a fight, so how can you be surprised and upset when one breaks out?

!CrONAHEG2c (ID: 7fb76d)Country code: ca, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312704

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>>312690

Except they're not shooting you, they're throwing a cup at you. That is not the same thing and to draw that comparison is reactionary and paranoid.

>look up the definition of assault


https://www.dictionary.com/browse/assault

>assault [uh-sawlt]

>noun
>1. a sudden, violent attack; onslaught
>2. Law. an unlawful physical attack upon another; an attempt or offer to do violence to another, with or without battery, as by holding a stone or club in a threatening manner

Yeah, still seems like an overreaction to me.

>>312700

See now you're adding things to the incident. Originally it was a milkshake, now it's concrete, now doxxing's involved.

I'm specifically talking about just a milkshake being thrown - not concrete, not acid, not blood laced with AIDS or whatever the fuck you want to suggest next - at a person as a means to communicate their displeasure with actions being done.

At no point was following the person around or constantly hounding their every move brought into it. Stop escalating the issue to make your position seem justified.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312705

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>>312704
Assualt is a threat, battery is a phyisical harm.

But I'm going to have to agree here, that slamming a heavy cup of thick frozen liquid into someone's face, is battery, and shouldn't be taken as "oh pfffft, it's just a cup".

I mean, if someone did that to their wife, should we be like "pffft, I mean, comon, that's not REAL domestic violence"?
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312709

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>>312702
>yet spend the vast majority of your posts saying he had it coming
>>312620
> he doesn't sound like just a reporter, he sounds like an activist and an instigator.
>>312669
>That's what I mean that he seems like just an instigator and an activist...
>reading the history of this dude, seems like kind of a sjw jerk.

>and how this attack was actually a good thing.
>>312638
>Reading more of his stuff, I think he was probably pretty excited as he seems to do this stuff for publicity.

>The fact that he was taken tothehospital with a brain bleed is ok because it was 'only' milkshakes.
>>312669
>I work with cement all the time, and I think this threat is being over blown...

>Like this is a normal expected thing that happens on the streets of America in broad daylight while the police refuse to intervene.
>>312620
>So like, if your going to a place where punches are being thrown, and you get punched, you can't really be surprised.


>>312702
>I mean, you did say that this person was attacked with chemicals here >>312610 (You)
>And then admitted that it was a lie here >>312657
Yes, the mistaken police officer was lying, clearly.

>>312702
>They are all jerks actively seeking a fight, so how can you be surprised and upset when one breaks out?
because he isn't a Proud Boy, and wasn't looking for a fight.
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Hubert!Zn.OKn9A2o (ID: 7044e8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312711

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>>312704
>See now you're adding things to the incident. Originally it was a milkshake, now it's concrete, now doxxing's involved.
I am not escalating the issue to make my position seem justified. I am asserting that violence generally puts people in distress regardless of the severity of the act. When you have caused someone to be distressed like that, there's a pretty reasonable expectation they're going to retaliate, which will escalate the problem even further. For God's sake, this is why we're apparently even having a side-discussion about shooting someone for throwing a milkshake at you.

>Stop escalating the issue to make your position seem justified.

>Waaaa! Waaaa! Stop using logic to persuade me that throwing things at people is wrong!

With all I've said now, I'm done. I obviously can't go any further from here, because you are truly unreasonable.
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!CrONAHEG2c (ID: 7fb76d)Country code: ca, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312714

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>>312705

Well that depends on how much harm she really endured. It's not like pouring boiling coffee on her, it's ice cream.

I know this is just my perception of the whole thing, but throwing a milkshake at someone - by itself and not involving doxxing or anything else someone wants to bring up - feels very childish at worst.

>>312711

If you get genuinely distressed over a milkshake landing on your face to the point that you think actual harmful violence towards someone is justified, that says more about you than them.

You're bringing up the severity of the act but I cannot fathom how you could consider a milkshake anything near "severe". It's the kind of thing grade schoolers would do to one another, so the fact that it's even being done at all is silly, but that it's being responded with this belief that it's a-OK to shoot them because "oh it might not be a milkshake" is fucking ludicrous.

But no, yeah, I'm the unreasonable one here. OK.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312715

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>>312714 Have you ever been hit in the head? I have. Bottles. Rocks. I was fine. But does that mean you should just put up with it when you get hit in the head with bottles and rocks, because you apparently survived ok last time? It's "harmless" until it isn't.

That milkshake you're throwing might be a milkshake. Or, now that the meme has spread that "hey guys, we can put things in the milkshake and no one will ever know" - am I still going to assume it's just a milkshake? Put another way, how many times do I get to punch you in the face if you throw a milkshake at me?

🐓 (ID: 6e5905)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312716

>>312608
Throwing a milkshake at someone *is* physical assault (assuming it hits them). It just lesser in degree than more extreme acts of physical assault.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312717

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>>312709
>>yet spend the vast majority of your posts saying he had it coming
You can read that as "he had it coming" but like iv said plenty of times, I mean "I'm not surprised"
>>Reading more of his stuff, I think he was probably pretty excited as he seems to do this stuff for publicity.
Yes, he has a history of setting up things, and doing things for publicity
>In February 2018, Ngo and his student group Freethinkers of PSU invited on campus James Damore, the author of the Google diversity memo. According to Ngo, they were threatened with violence and were intimidated by Antifa protestors. During the event, a portion of the audience walked out in protest against the speaker. Ngo filmed the disruption, but said "it [had not been] a plan to get national attention for [himself]."
And that he is a lier, in this situation and others.
>He also falsely connected alcohol-free zones in parts of London to the Muslim-majority populations. Ngo was accused of Islamophobia and issued a correction to the article.
And likes to play the victim
>He said he wrote the op-ed because in London in 2006, he "[had frozen], confused and intimidated by the faceless figures" of women wearing the niqab in London.
(I would like you to pay EXTRA attention to this part)
NONE OF WHICH IS AN EXCUSE FOR VIOLENCE AGAINST HIM, BUT THESE ARE THE REASONS IM NOT SURPRISED IT HAPPENED.

>>I work with cement all the time, and I think this threat is being over blown

Hi does that mean I think going to the hospital with a brain bleed is okay... I mean, all of these are a stretch, but this one is rediculousness haha.
>>So like, if your going to a place where punches are being thrown, and you get punched, you can't really be surprised.
Again, in what way are you getting "violence should be a normal part of America" from this, without intentionally miss reading it and applying your own reality?

>Yes, the mistaken police officer was lying, clearly.

A mistake you seem to have no problem perpetuating as truth, which is akin to a lie.

>because he isn't a Proud Boy, and wasn't looking for a fight.

A proud boy, no, looking for a fight, that questionable given his history and his career being almost exclusively taking footage of fights.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312718

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>>312717
>I'm going to spend 75% of my posts attacking his character, yet I don't agree with what happened to him.
makes perfect sense.

I was under the impression that the initial information was correct, and even if it isn't, it doesn't excuse the beatdown, the theft, or the milkshakes. However, things-in-milkshakes is a "thing" now, as everyone has heard of it, and surely there are those who will do it.

>his career being almost exclusively taking footage of fights.

as opposed to any other on-the-ground journalist

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312720

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>>312714
Your right, if some icecream was just poured on someone that would be a different story.
But this is a heavy object being slammed into someones face.
Or at least that is the intent, whether it connects of not.
This is the actual footage
Conservative writer Andy Ngo roughed up at Portland antifa/right wing protests

I agree with you that the people your talking to about this are fabricating things, and moving the goalpost... Which seems unnecessary to me, since why make up stuff or perpetuate a mistake about concrete, when he is literally being pepper sprayed?
But still, to say "it's just a _____" given the context, dosnt seem like a good argument.

!CrONAHEG2c (ID: 7fb76d)Country code: ca, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312722

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>>312716

Alright, so maybe I used the incorrect term.

>>312704

I felt this said otherwise, but regardless, my point is what you mentioned: that it is a lesser form of whatever term you want to use, so treating it like it's the most severe of them is nonsensical.

>>312720

I'll admit, I was only going off of hearsay for a related incident and not this one, more to just discuss throwing a milkshake by itself and how people were treating that like a deadly assault, even before the incident you're mentioning.

This one you've brought up is a severe case and the Antifa members should be punished accordingly, by no means am I saying otherwise.

>>312715

See, your argument is exactly the same as it was earlier.

"It might not be just ice cream in that cup, therefore I am justified in murdering this person in cold blood before they do anything to me."

So that's enough of a sign that I should step out now.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312723

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>>312722 and the gun "might" be loaded, so I'm justified in shooting the person pointing a gun at me.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312725

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>>312718
Again, your putting words in my mouth.

Most of what I said about his character was instigated by your constant demand for me to prove why I said I wasn't surprised, and that I didn't mean "he had it coming".

None of it would have been necessary if you would have stopped being so unnecessarily defensive, and just took my word for it the first time.
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312727

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>>312725 It honestly sounds like you're saying "I don't condone violence, but if it's going to happen to anyone, it's good that it happened to him, because he had it coming." which as far as I'm concerned, completely invalidates your point.

It doesn't matter how much you dislike someone - it doesn't justify the mob beating the shit out of them, in a public place, where that person has 100% as much right to be. And the one and ONLY group at fault is the mob.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312729

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>>312722
Ah yeah, actually your right, this isn't the same insident, though, it is the same guy.

I have to assume though, since it's the same parties are involved, the severity was similar.

Reguardless, when people are talking about "throwing milkshakes" these are the incidents I assume they are referencing, throwing a heavy object at someone's face with force.
I also assume that a milkshake was chosen, because it has enough mass to hurt someone, but is innocent sounding enough to produce the "haha, they're scared of milkshakes?" responces.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312731

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>>312727
Then I wasn't clear enough for you I suppose.

I don't mean to say that "he had it coming" I simply meant that it's not a surprise that they chose him as a target.

It was more of an observation than an opinion.

⛵☎!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312732

>>312731 I'm not surprised either, because he is and has been a target, specifically because he reports on Antifa without slanting the narrative in their favor.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312734

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>>312732
Then we are in agreement.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312738

Maybe part of the push against antifascism is because antifascist extremists have historically been responsible for a decent portion of political violence.

When people, especially older people, think of Antifa they don't picture the actually exemplary examples of antifascist protest that are sometimes performed by modern adherents to this ideology, they picture something like the bader-meinhof group, or of the potential of these groups to become like them.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312746

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>>312738
The problem I see, is that it seems that most "anti fascist" protests seem to come off as fascist in nature, in of themselves.
Things like shutting out speakers, or the aforementioned political violence.

There is a chance that this is only what I've seen, and I'm missing something, but I don't see many "anti fascist" like... Talks and debates, I only see mob violence and shutting down speakers with disruptive behaviour.

Also, if I was a fascist or a Nazi or something else that was a known political taboo, the first thing I would do is lable my group "anti-that".
Like how they name bills in Congress the something that sounds really great like "the water protection act" but really it's a bill that allows industrial waste to be drained into a river haha.

In all honesty, I only casually observe this antifa / proud boys stuff, because it seems blown out of proportion imo.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312747

>>312746
>The problem I see, is that it seems that most "anti fascist" protests seem to come off as fascist in nature, in of themselves.
>Things like shutting out speakers, or the aforementioned political violence.
Well this is an interesting perspective, but does it gel with the understood definitions of fascism as very right wing authoritarian form of hypernationalism? Not so much, I think.

It's extremely left wing, it's not authoritarian, in that the movement is largely decentralized, and it's rarely nationalistic. It seems inaccurate to characterize it as fascistic then, even considering these examples.

>There is a chance that this is only what I've seen, and I'm missing something, but I don't see many "anti fascist" like... Talks and debates, I only see mob violence and shutting down speakers with disruptive behaviour.

My understanding is that antifascists believe talk and debate are unconscionable when done with extreme right wing figures. They believe that the ideas should not be allowed to spread or fester, and should be opposed outright wherever they crop up, not given enough credence to be debated.

I do understand the reasoning for this. And although we may value freedom of speech very highly, I think there are times when the most prudent action is not to seek to debate or engage in fair discourse.

I know what you mean, haha. You must take a motivated actors testimony as evidence, not as fact. And the naming of things is certainly highly motivated.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312748

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>>312747
>My understanding is that antifascists believe talk and debate are unconsciounable when done with extreme right wing figures. They believe that the ideas should not be allowed to spread or fester, and should be opposed outright wherever they crop up, not given enough credence to be debated.
This is the part that seems authoritarian to me.

Would it not be authoritarian to just stamp out and silence those you disagree with?
To stop their ideas from permiating, while promoting your own?

Like, if these "anti fascist" folks were actually in charge of government, and used the same tactics of opression of those they don't like/disagree with, such as threats, violence and obstruction, what would you call that system, if not fascist?
This post was edited by its author on .

🐓 (ID: 6e5905)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312749

>>312747
>it's not authoritarian
It is authoritarian in that it uses violence to suppress freedom of speech.

🐓 (ID: 6e5905)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312750

>>312747
>definitions of fascism as very right wing authoritarian form of hypernationalism
That's not the only definition. This is the first result I get on Google:
>A fascist is a follower of a political philosophy characterized by authoritarian views and a strong central government — and no tolerance for opposing opinions
The next is this:
>a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
Everything there except the nationalism part applies to Antifa.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312756

>>312748
>Would it not be authoritarian to just stamp out and silence those you disagree with?
>To stop their ideas from permiating, while promoting your own?
No, not so much. It's an intolerance of a certain perspective in the discourse, but it is not authoritarian. To be authoritarian there would have to be an authority involved.

You can link the concepts in some ways, say, by comparing the outcomes of the ways of acting, but I think there's an important distinction between authoritarianism and the motivated suppression of certain political ideas.

>Like, if these "anti fascist" folks were actually in charge of government, and used the same tactics of opression of those they don't like/disagree with, such as threats, violence and obstruction, what would you call that system, if not fascist?

Well, anti-fascists are usually, but not always, anarchists or socialists. Generally speaking, they don't like government so much, so if someone was in government and used these sorts of methods, that would be a situation very divorced from modern antifa.

>>312750
Of course there are many differing definitions of fascism! And fascism has almost as many signifying characteristics as I have hairs on my head, it's a very weirdly defined term.

I would argue that Antifa don't exalt the nation, or race, they don't stand for centralized government or authority, again, most are in fact anarchists, socialists, or lean this way, and although some things apply to antifascists which might also apply to fascists, this does not mean that antifa is fascist.

I have some things in common with rocks as well, but this does not make me a rock.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312757

Notice that I can easily select and interpret definitions to fit things that they are not meant to fit without much difficulty.

"Water is a transparent, tasteless, odorless, and nearly colorless chemical substance, which is the main constituent of Earth's streams, lakes, and oceans"

By this logic, I would argue that oxygen is in fact water, because oxygen is a tasteless, ordorless, chemical substance, which by mass is the main constituent of Earth's Streams, Lakes and Oceans.

In order for definitions to make sense, they should be interpreted in good faith to the original intention of the definition.

And note also, whether I believe oxygen is water or not, the underlying ontological reality remains the same.
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Dodger (ID: 20aeb8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312758

1) the majority of political violence in America has always ALWAYS A L W A Y S been committed by conservatives and ethnonationalists. If you need to resort to whataboutism and slippery slopes to criticize a minority of political violence while conveniently ignoring the majority of political violence, you should probably be the next victim.

2) Violence is not inherently fascist or authoritarian. It's my semi-hot take that violence isn't even that bad. That faggy little chink deserved much worse. The fact that he got away with only minor injuries is embarrassing to his would-be revolutionary assaulters.

3) Throwing an object at someone is assault. Duh.

Dodger (ID: 20aeb8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312759

4) Violence against people that exploit the political system to take away your means of survival is not unprovoked, it's self defense.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312760

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>>312756
A rose by any other name...

You're right, their tactics may not be by the book definition exactly fascist, but it runs very closely along the same rails.

I see them more as a symptom of something bigger, and smarter pulling their strings. The big unruly mob normally isn't the one that takes the power, they simply provide the chaos in which someone or some group that has more cunning than to have "let's hurl bricks" as their tactic to seize it.

"Useful idiots" I think is the coined term.
I think it's wise to be weary of groups like these, because I think folks who think punching people and causing riots are good ideas, also are highly manipulatable.

🐓 (ID: 6e5905)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312761

>>312756
>I would argue that Antifa don't exalt ... race
I think many in Antifa are collectivists w.r.t. race.

🐓 (ID: 6e5905)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312763

>>312758
>It's my semi-hot take that violence isn't even that bad
When committed by the state or in self-defense. Vigilante justice has a bad history of lynching people who weren't guilty.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312766

>>312761
Sure, but it's not really what is meant, you know. This is not a typically fascistic trait.

I can tell you don't think this is the greatest thing, but whether you like it or not, this has little bearing on how fascist it is.

>>312760
To me it looks very much like it's the polar opposite in a sense! I see a lot of oppositions in ideology between the two groups. And also a lot of differences in the ways they tend to organize and with what aims.

Well that's an interesting idea. Who would be benefitting from antifascist protest, if you were to guess?

Dodger (ID: 20aeb8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312767

>>312763
So does the state

🐓 (ID: 6e5905)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312771

>>312767
The state isn't perfect, but mobs are at least an order of magnitude worse. The state needs to convince a jury of 12 people to unanimously convict the suspect and give him an opportunity to present evidence in his favor.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 603f50)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312778

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>>312766
I see the 2 groups as 2 sides of the same coin.


I would say the status quo has much to benifit by distracting people with stuff like this.
It's all mired in "eceleb" drama and Twitter "hot takes" and all the other stuff that people tend to get wrapped up in and divided over, and manufactured division is what keeps those in power remaining there.

Considering also how localized and produced these events are, even as far as people posting Craigslist ads recruiting folks for pay to attend, I wouldn't think it too far fetched that it's just a dog and pony show tbh.

That's not to say that I think the people participating are "fake" I just don't think the unruly mob of screaming violent slogan chanters is really that smart, and I think their existence is easily taken advantage of.
Also, there is an entire industry of news entertainment built around this with dramatic monetotized YouTube videos and tabloid articles, tee shirt sales...
Plenty of folks benefit from perpetuating this kind of thing.

What has always struck me as the most funny, is that right wing YouTube videos are always linked to me from people on the left, and vice versa. So the biggest promoters, to me at least, are the opposition.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312787

File: 1562797594837.png (478.59 KB, 1024x1024, 576143.png)

>>312747
>it's not authoritarian
what are you smoking? you can't get any more authoritarian than shutting down speech. and your argument that it isn't "the authority" doing it makes no sense, because Antifa is itself the authority that has deemed some speech to be unworthy of being heard. A fascist who isn't in power is still a fascist, just as an authoritarian without government support is still an authoritarian.
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Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312797

>>312787
Antifa can't really be considered an authority, though, in the same way that feminism isn't an authority, or gamergate isn't an authority. They're political movements.

You can make the argument that an antifascist would supress speech if given the opportunity, or would support a strong leader that would heavily emphasize order over individual freedom, but again, most antifa members are anarchists or socialists, and would not have the implementation of this sort of policy as an end goal, in theory. The most typical ideology of an antifa member, seems to be starkly opposed to authoritarianism as it's understood in political science. The fact that they've historically positioned themselves in opposition to such authoritarian leaders also gives us a clue, that this is not what they're in it for.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312799

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>>312797 It isn't a question of whether it's an authority or not, it's a question of what methods they using to push their ideals. If your MO is to trample the personal freedoms of individuals to get what you want, then you are an authoritarian, whether you are in power or not. Whether you voted for Bernie is irrelevant, because shutting down speech is authoritarian regardless of who does it. and beating your political rivals to a bloody pulp is definitely authoritarian.
This post was edited by its author on .

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312800

>>312771
No it doesn't

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312802

>>312799
Okay, you said Antifa was the authority, but I guess you meant this.

As far as I've been made aware while studying political psychology, and as I've read refreshing now, there are typically two ways of viewing authoritarianism or authoritarians.

1. Authoritarianism is a form of government which emphasizes order and all of this.

or

2. Authoritarianism is a mindset among a public, in which the people of this mindset have a tendency to prefer strong leaders who will emphasize order and all of this.

This idea you're putting forward of authoritarianism defined as the actions of individual people to enforce an order on their own, this is not something I've ever heard.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312803

File: 1562799883178.png (478.59 KB, 1024x1024, 576143.png)

>>312802 You as an individual can be the authority. "If I were god emperor, I'd do X" and if X tramples people's rights, then congratulations, you're an authoritarian, despite being an individual. Antifa, however, is a group with stated objectives and as a group is authoritarian. Accordingly, Antifa is the authority in this case.

It's why there's entire axis of the political compass which is based on authority - i.e. how much you want to impose your will on others.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312804

>>312778
I am headed to bed, but I think this is a very interesting sort of birds eye perspective that removes us a bit from the politial struggle to sort of examine what structures underlie it and benefit from it.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312807

>>312803
I think you've got some concepts mixed up. I think maybe not quite aware of how authoritarianism is defined, or you don't quite have knowledge of the kinds of ideologies present in antifa.

Anarchist ideologies score max on liberatarian scales. It doesn't get any more libertarian than this. Socialists also tend to score more libertarian than authoritarian, and these are the ideologies you see represented most in antifa.

If you tested antifa members, they would tend to score extremely anti-authoritarian or libertarian to put it another way.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 3674e2)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312808

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>>312804
Cool, if you would like to continue tomorrow I would be more than happy to.
This is a perspective I don't normally get to share tbh, and I wouldn't mind hearing your take on it.
Sleep well.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312810

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>>312807 I'm well aware of what they purport to be. But what they claim, and what they do, are not in line with each other.
No part of beating the shit out of your political rivals is libertarian. neither is shutting down speech you disagree with. No part of throwing milkshakes at people you disagree with, and thereby violating their rights, is libertarian. Hence the popular notion that Antifa is more fascist than the people they claim to be fighting against. Actions speak louder than words, as clearly demonstrated by this terrorist organization.
This post was edited by its author on .

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312813

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>>312810
The people they claim to be fighting against are objectively more violent and extreme than they are. The popular notion that antifa are authoritarian comes from the hypocrites on the right that hold themselves to a lower standard of behavior and simultaneously believe that they're the good guys.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312814

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>>312813
>The people they claim to be fighting against are objectively more violent and extreme than they are.
citation needed.
>The popular notion that antifa are authoritarian comes from the hypocrites on the right that hold themselves to a lower standard of behavior and simultaneously believe that they're the good guys.
More accurately, it comes from watching the supposed anti-fascists acting like fascists, and acting like hooligans.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312816

>>312814
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/12/study-shows-two-thirds-us-terrorism-tied-right-wing-extremists

I don't need to rely on anecdotal evidence, but you can also just list the top 10 acts of extreme political violence in American history and see who was responsible.

>it comes from watching the supposed anti-fascists acting like fascists

The minority of political violence gets the majority of news coverage from their political opponents

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312817

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>>312816 I thought you'd do that. But this is where you're wrong. Antifa doesn't protest acts of terrorism or terrorists; they protest events. Simply saying "I love America" is a great way to have Antifa come and protest you. Nice whataboutism you've pulled there.

>The minority of political violence gets the majority of news coverage from their political opponents

Where is all the Antifa coverage of the evil acts perpetrated by the oh-so-violent people they're protesting, then?
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🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312821

>>312817
How do you protest an act of terrorism? Do you think these people are supposed to show up halfway through a mosque shooting with picket signs? What does that even mean?
>Simply saying "I love America" is a great way to have Antifa come and protest you
It doesn't sound like you're really interested in discussing actual tangible concepts that can be backed up with statistics. Do you think this little conjecture is enough to convince me of anything?

>Where is all the Antifa coverage of the evil acts perpetrated by the oh-so-violent people they're protesting, then?

On the internet

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312823

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>>312821
>How do you protest an act of terrorism? Do you think these people are supposed to show up halfway through a mosque shooting with picket signs? What does that even mean?
You tell me; you're the person who posted about terrorism committed by third parties for some bizarre reason, as if it justifies anything.

>It doesn't sound like you're really interested in discussing actual tangible concepts that can be backed up with statistics. Do you think this little conjecture is enough to convince me of anything?

Frankly I don't think anything I say would change your mind, and so I don't care if you change your mind or not.

>On the internet

Funny you should say that. Do you know where you can find lots of instances of Antifa doing heinous shit to innocent bystanders?

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312828

>>312823
What you're saying is that beating the shit out of political rivals on a relatively small scale is not terrorism, but something much worse. What would that be?

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312952

>>312586
>>312587
It would probably involve some amount of not knowing that you're involved in one or the other. The same way you could vote for decreased civil rights and think that they should be increased.

>>312610
This quick-dry cement or acid thing is purposeful muddying of the waters to make antifascist action to seem much worse than it is. Not only is there zero damn evidence except word of mouth, you can't even properly harden cement in a sugary drink. Furthermore, the claim of getting a brain hemmorhage is insanely laughable, as Andy has been touring every right wing media outlet since day one after the incident.

It's very convenient that you can't prove that something doesn't exist, so this narrative of armed milkshakes will continue into forever to make people protesting fascism seem like bad people.

Andy Ngo is not a neutral party by any means. His articles have been considered race baiting and riddled with false information, later confirmed by the man himself.

I seriously consider Sailboat as a cryptofascist at this point. These takes are fucking incredible.

Edit: Maybe cryptofascist is a bit too much, but you know what I mean.
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Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 007e39)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312958

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>>312952
>It would probably involve some amount of not knowing that you're involved in one or the other. The same way you could vote for decreased civil rights and think that they should be increased.
So just general ignorance then?
I see what you mean now.

>you can't even properly harden cement in a sugary drink.

I just want to point out that the idea isn't that the cement will harden into a brick, it's that the pH level of the cement will produce a chemical burn.
Which, is also fairly rediculous considering how much quick dry cement I've been covered in over the years just from working.

Reguardless, I agree that it's just a tactic to make it sound worse than it is, and it's clearly misinformation.

Still this though >>312729
And this >>312705

But also, to the greater point, this >>312760 and >>312778

And the fact that a large portion of this thread has been spent talking about YouTube people and milkshakes make me feel like I'm on to something there.

But, also, I'm going to bed.
G'night.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312961

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>>312958
Yeah, if I wanted to blind someone and cause extreme pain then I'd probably throw a cup of hot sauce in their face. Or yknow, ground up glass particles, depends on how bad they are.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 007e39)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312968

>>312961
You can just buy bear mace online dude.
Don't overthink it haha.

Chain!Wall.j2i4Y (ID: 9b2c1f)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312972

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>>312952
>I seriously consider Sailboat as a cryptofascist at this point.
Not just regular fascism, but fascism on the blockchain?

(Remember when Bitcoin was still under $1000? Pepperidge Farm remembers.)

Anonymous (ID: 375e1a)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312984

File: 1562820052903.png (1.25 MB, 1137x1600, HE_fights_for_style.png)

>>312952
>I seriously consider Sailboat as a cryptofascist at this point. These takes are fucking incredible.
>Edit: Maybe cryptofascist is a bit too much, but you know what I mean.

More of a pure Republican dupe, honestly. Which is rarer and looks weirder around here.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312985

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>>312968
Ninjas don't use bear mace

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 007e39)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312987

>>312985
I don't know enough about ninjas to dispute that.

Anonymous (ID: 375e1a)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312992

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  312995

File: 1562821992756.png (478.59 KB, 1024x1024, 576143.png)

>>312828 No, it is terrorism. It's like the definition of terrorism. For someone who purports to hate whataboutism, you sure can't seem to avoid using it yourself.
>>312952 As I've said before, it's irrelevant. You don't get to beat the shit out of your political opponents. period. The fact that you support someone being beaten down for their political positions makes you the fascist here.
> Furthermore, the claim of getting a brain hemmorhage is insanely laughable, as Andy has been touring every right wing media outlet since day one after the incident.
complete non-sequitor
>It's very convenient that you can't prove that something doesn't exist, so this narrative of armed milkshakes will continue into forever to make people protesting fascism seem like bad people.
so, don't throw milkshakes, and thereby avoid being a bad person. whether there's cement in it or not has zero bearing on whether you're a bad person.
>people protesting fascism
Antifa isn't protesting fascism, nice try.
>Andy Ngo is not a neutral party by any means.
irrelevant
>His articles have been considered race baiting and riddled with false information, later confirmed by the man himself.
also irrelevant; doesn't mean anyone is justified in attacking him.
>I seriously consider Sailboat as a cryptofascist at this point. These takes are fucking incredible.
You're retarded, so your opinions literally don't matter.
This post was edited by its author on .

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  312999

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>>312995
If I told you that white people commit too much crime, and you said "what about black people?" I wouldn't reject you for whataboutism, that's a valid point. I'm getting disproportionately upset about something that's statistically less significant than the more serious issue that I choose to stubbornly ignore.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313001

File: 1562823153067.png (478.59 KB, 1024x1024, 576143.png)

>>312999 You are distracting from the bad things that Antifa is doing, and justifying the bad things that Antifa is doing, by pointing to completely unrelated things being done absent Antifa. If that's not whataboutism, I... well, it is whataboutism, let's just be honest. If you want to talk about how terrible far right terrorism is, by all means. Don't use it as justification for far left hooliganism.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313005

>>312810
I think in these cases, Antifa members would probably claim to be acting in self-defense, and this illuminates their motivations. The idea that they use to justify political violence, and the idea that makes their actions make sense and puts them in line with their purported ideology, is the paradox of tolerance.

An antifa member will believe, that the best way that libertarian values can be upheld or advanced, is through a hard line of intolerance to those that pose the greatest threat to those values. This can seem very paradoxical, but there's an internal logic to it.

It takes stepping out of your own skinning and viewing it from the point of view of an antifa member to understand how this works. It's the same way with extreme pro-life activists. Until you step out of your own perspective and try to imagine what the world is like for someone who views a clump of cells as fully equivalent to a person, it's very hard to understand why they act in such extreme ways as they do, and how that can be justified.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313006

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>>313001
I don't need to use far right terrorism to justify the actions of antifa, my first post ITT was >>312285

I'm being 100% morally consistent, I condemn far right terrorism because of their motivations, not their actions. I just think it's weird that someone like you is taking the moral highground of anti-antifa because of their actions when the far right is far worse.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313009

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>>313005 That's an idiotic line of reasoning, the kind of reasoning that leads mothers to kill their children to "protect" them. But yes, I understand it.

>>313006
>I don't need to use far right terrorism to justify the actions of antifa,
yet that's the first thing you pointed to when I asked you for a source. interesting.
>my first post ITT was >>312285
not part of our conversation.

>I'm being 100% morally consistent, I condemn far right terrorism because of their motivations, not their actions. I just think it's weird that someone like you is taking the moral highground of anti-antifa because of their actions when the far right is far worse.

Here's a shock for you: I condemn far-right terrorism AND Antifa. The difference is, I don't lump all people who are vaguely on the "right" together as terrorists to justify violence against them, as you apparently do.

Also, motivations by themselves are meaningless, especially when you can misattribute motivations to people. There's a reason thought crime doesn't exist.

Also, wait, you condemn the reason for a mosque shooting, but not the action itself? so, someone shooting up a group for the right reason is A-OK with you? the fuck is wrong with you people.
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🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313010

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>>313009
Motivations are an important factor in literally every legal case ever, you know that, right?

Not all people on the right are terrorists, but they're all guilty of voting away people's right to life. I greatly dislike this new pseudointellectual culture of nobody taking any responsibility for their actions unless someone puts their hands on someone else, it's all a bunch of dishonest pussy shit.

>so, someone shooting up a group for the right reason is A-OK with you?

Yeah, and it's okay with you too. You said earlier that you would take a life if you felt threatened.

Edit: what do you mean you people?
This post was edited by its author on .

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313011

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>>313010
>Motivations are an important factor in literally every legal case ever, you know that, right?
Yes.

>Not all people on the right are terrorists,

hard to tell from what you've been saying.

>but they're all guilty of voting away people's right to life.

no fucking clue what you're referring to, but ok.
>I greatly dislike this new pseudointellectual culture of nobody taking any responsibility for their actions unless someone puts their hands on someone else,
You literally haven't taken an action until you put your hands on someone else, or otherwise infringe upon their rights. So there's no reason to take responsibility, because you haven't done anything. Again, no fucking clue what you're talking about.
>it's all a bunch of dishonest pussy shit.
What exactly is your ideal alternative?

>>so, someone shooting up a group for the right reason is A-OK with you?

>Yeah, and it's okay with you too. You said earlier that you would take a life if you felt threatened.
Do you feel threatened by someone who disagrees with you, enough to cause bodily harm and/or kill them? If so, have you seen a therapist about it?

>Edit: what do you mean you people?

you specifically, also Antifa apologists, also "liberals" who don't seem to care about liberty. take your pick.
This post was edited by its author on .

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 64a282)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313012

>>313011
>You literally haven't taken an action until you put your hands on someone else, or otherwise infringe upon their rights
Of course you have, policy has infinitely more impact than the average individual's action, the pen is mightier than the sword. It's crazy to me that you (and most liberals) think this way. Are you familiar with rule-consequentialism?

>What exactly is your ideal alternative?

Bad faith actors are weeded out and ostracized from the marketplace of ideas and forced to get a real job.

>Do you feel threatened by someone who disagrees with you, enough to cause bodily harm and/or kill them?

If I think that I have a right to life and someone disagrees with that, then by definition, yes. Everyone has the right to defend their life with lethal force.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313013

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>>313012
>Of course you have, policy has infinitely more impact than the average individual's action, the pen is mightier than the sword. It's crazy to me that you (and most liberals) think this way. Are you familiar with rule-consequentialism?
More or less. Does someone adhering to a "worse" rule justify you attacking/killing them to get your way?

>>What exactly is your ideal alternative?

>Bad faith actors are weeded out and ostracized from the marketplace of ideas and forced to get a real job.
So I guess that'll be the end of Antifa then!

>>Do you feel threatened by someone who disagrees with you, enough to cause bodily harm and/or kill them?

>If I think that I have a right to life and someone disagrees with that, then by definition, yes. Everyone has the right to defend their life with lethal force.
That isn't what I asked. Care to answer the actual question?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313014

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>>312984 I'm a registered Republican, but center-left on the political compass. If I have to choose between literal crazy people spouting nonsense, and those I can have a conversation with, then it's a no-brainer, and the present-day Dems can go fuck themselves right off a cliff. Find me an Obama and I'll consider voting for him, just like I did before. But this new far left nonsense can just fuck right off. The fact that I don't mindlessly support Antifa beating up the elderly and Jews somehow makes me a secret Nazi I guess.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: e60d7a)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313015

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>>313013
>Does someone adhering to a "worse" rule justify you attacking/killing them to get your way?
It depends on the severity. I don't think you're going to get me to say anything inconsistent on this topic.
>That isn't what I asked. Care to answer the actual question?
Your question is extremely loaded, you can interpret a yes/no answer to mean something I don't believe. How are the rules of society so simple to you?
>everything is okay except violence
>if you're violent for one reason, you could be violent for any reason
like wtf?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313016

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>>313015
>>Does someone adhering to a "worse" rule justify you attacking/killing them to get your way?
>It depends on the severity. I don't think you're going to get me to say anything inconsistent on this topic.
So you are ok with killing someone who merely disagrees with you, depending on the severity of the disagreement. You're a hell of a role model, let me tell ya.

>>That isn't what I asked. Care to answer the actual question?

>Your question is extremely loaded, you can interpret a yes/no answer to mean something I don't believe. How are the rules of society so simple to you?
It's a simple question, and the correct answer is 'no'. The fact that you're even considering ways around it just confirms that you're a bad person. congratulations! fuckin' a, why am I even talking to you.

>>everything is okay except violence

>>if you're violent for one reason, you could be violent for any reason
>like wtf?
more rationalizations.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: e60d7a)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313017

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>>313016
I don't know why you're talking to me, apparently it's okay to kill people for throwing a milkshake but not for taking away your ability to pay for insulin. I don't think you respect the severity of specific crimes compared to others.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313018

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>>313017 If you come at me with a knife, and I have a gun, I'd be a fool to let you stab me before I shot you, once it's clear that you intend to stab me. This can be applied to literally any assault.

1) It ain't my job to pay for your goddamn insulin.
2) Maybe you shouldn't have lived your life so as to become diabetic in the first place.
3) My not wanting to pay for your goddamn insulin doesn't mean you get to throw endless fucking milkshakes at me.
4) Use that milkshake money to buy some motherfucking insulin.
This post was edited by its author on .

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: e60d7a)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313019

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>>313018
I would not be able to morally condemn someone for acting in self-defense against someone like you from enacting policies that would kill them. I couldn't possibly rationalize that, it makes absolutely no sense, I would do the same if I were them. Everyone has a right to defend their lives with lethal force, I love the second amendment.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313020

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>>313019 You're literally retarded. Try pulling a gun on a cop the next time you get stopped for speeding and see how that goes.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: e60d7a)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313021

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>>313020
If the cop is trying to kill me then what else am I going to do, call the cops on him? That's the best analogy you could come up with while calling someone else retarded?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313022

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>>313021 If someone is holding a sign that you disagree with, what can you do besides shoot them in the face?
>That's the best analogy you could come up with while calling someone else retarded?
I'm enjoying my Nth white russian tonight. This conversation is completely pointless as far as I'm concerned, and I'm putting little effort into it.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: e60d7a)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313023

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>>313022
I don't simplify other people's positions to "if you disagree with me about pizza toppings I'm going to fucking kill you" when I drink, but I've never had white russians.

(ID: 572aeb)Country code: at, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313024

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>>313022
I had a white russian yesterday. Do you like to float the cream on top or do you mix it in?

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313025

>>312995
I think it's highly disingenuous to isolate every incident of violence from all context. Fascism isn't described just by using violence to prevent certain kind of speech. The policies this violence is supporting is highly relevant and the scale of violence is not the same.

>complete non-sequitor

It's additional context to show that the side you are defending isn't very genuine in their claims.

>so, don't throw milkshakes, and thereby avoid being a bad person. whether there's cement in it or not has zero bearing on whether you're a bad person.

Should've nazies just been left alone too, like they were? Yes, this is a logical extreme.

>irrelevant

Then why did you bring it up as a defence?

>also irrelevant; doesn't mean anyone is justified in attacking him.

Do you not accept the fact that this kind of reporting causes meaningful harm to marginalized people and serves as a point for radicalizing people against said people? This is inciting violence and putting the responsibility solely on the reader of this kind of reporting is naive.

>You're retarded, so your opinions literally don't matter.

Ok, Mr. "it's okay to kill someone if they threaten to throw a milkshake on you"

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: e60d7a)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313026

Dude I've done nothing but shit on lefties for like a month straight and you come at me with this "oh typical lefty wants to kill all humans" like cmon, I'm a person :c

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313027

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>>313023 You're the one saying you'd kill someone over the severity of the disagreement~
>>313024 Mix, otherwise it tastes awful depending on the ratios. I make my white russians way stronger than my black russians, so mixing is essential. how was your white russian?
>>313025
>Fascism isn't described just by using violence to prevent certain kind of speech.
true, but it's a very important aspect.
>The policies this violence is supporting is highly relevant and the scale of violence is not the same.
The scale is different, but that's whataboutism, now isn't it? You don't get a pass just because your side hasn't killed anyone yet.
>It's additional context to show that the side you are defending isn't very genuine in their claims.
The claim can be true while he's talking about it. A brain hemorrhage is bad, whether it does little/nothing, renders him incapable, or kills him.
>Should've nazies just been left alone too, like they were? Yes, this is a logical extreme.
No, they should have been opposed - by ideas, not milkshakes and violence.
>Then why did you bring it up as a defence?
I never brought up that he's neutral, and I never said that he's neutral. He is, however, an American citizen who has every goddamn right to be on that street without being accosted.
>Do you not accept the fact that this kind of reporting causes meaningful harm to marginalized people and serves as a point for radicalizing people against said people?
I don't know. possibly. I would still say it's irrelevant. You don't get to beat up your political opponents. period.
>This is inciting violence and putting the responsibility solely on the reader of this kind of reporting is naive.
Is it? I haven't read all of his reports, so I'm not sure where you're getting "inciting violence" from, but unless you're using a VERY broad definition of violence, I have my doubts. and even if you are, I have my doubts.
>Ok, Mr. "it's okay to kill someone if they threaten to throw a milkshake on you"
It's an example. Apparently you've never been in any sort of altercation either.
>>313026 I don't know where you stand. I'm just responding to what you're telling me.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: e60d7a)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313028

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>>313027
LISTEN, sometimes, you have to kill! It's okay! I hope that clears everything up.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313029

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>>313028 like you said, the motivation matters.

(ID: 69a12e)Country code: at, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313030

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>>313027
I like to float the heavy cream on top. I use equivalent amounts of vodka, chocolate liqueur and cream. I used Ketel One and Tia Maria for mine.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313032

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>>313030 I go like, 50 vodka: 35 Kahlua: 15 whole milk (I don't usually get cream, except in special circumstances). I just end up with vodka-milk on top if I don't mix it, which is pretty terrible. I haven't ever tried Ketel One or Tia Maria. I typically use Kahlua and Seagrams.

(ID: 69a12e)Country code: at, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313033

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>>313032
I usually have Kahlua myself but wanted to try something different for a change.

I don't know Seagrams honestly. I usually switch between Ketel One, Absolut and Eristoff when it comes to vodka.

If I'd use milk instead of cream I guess I'd mix it in too.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313034

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>>313033 Seagrams is known for their gin, but their vodka is pretty decent as well. Also, just due to packaging in the US at least, it ends up being cheaper than Smirnoff and other equivalents, which is why I first tried it and then started getting it almost exclusively.

Black russians are pretty decent. I made them a while back when I ran out of milk. It's more like 60 Kahlua, 40 vodka, but that's way more expensive than my typical white russian.

My signature drink, I call a Holiday Special. same ratios, but using spiked eggnog instead of cream, and added nutmeg. it's the best, but requires a lot of mixing.

(ID: 69a12e)Country code: at, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313035

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>>313034
I only had a black russian once but I prefer the whites.

I mix quite a few cocktails myself, got a shaker and strainer and everything. My favorite is the classic Swimming Pool.

How do you spike your eggnog? Whiskey? Amaretto? Rum?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313036

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>>313035 I prefer white as well, but it works in a pinch.
I've never tried a Swimming Pool.
Typically I get the pre-spiked at the liquor store. The 'gold standard' being Pennsylvania Dutch (Deutsch) eggnog.

(ID: 69a12e)Country code: at, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313037

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>>313036
>Pennsylvania Dutch (Deutsch) eggnog.

Huh, never seen something like this in a store here.

A Swimming Pool is pretty sweet, like most of my cocktails. It's vodka, white rum, blue curacao, pineapple juice, coconut cream and heavy cream.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313038

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>>313037 eggnog in general, or that particular type? I believe Evans(?) also makes one, but it's nowhere near as good.

that sounds very sweet. can't imagine what that tastes like.

(ID: 69a12e)Country code: at, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313039

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>>313038
Generally I don't see eggnog in a store here, whether it's regular one or spiked. Though from what I know it's not too different to the popular egg liqueur we have here (sometimes called advocaat).

Swimming Pool has a refreshing pineapple flavor mixed with the slightly bitter-sweet orange from the curacao.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313040

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>>313039 I'm not sure if I've ever even tried curacao.

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313041

>>313027
>The scale is different, but that's whataboutism, now isn't it? You don't get a pass just because your side hasn't killed anyone yet.
No, it's just a comparison. Whataboutism would be defending the action by saying that the other people did the same thing under the same circumstances.

>The claim can be true while he's talking about it. A brain hemorrhage is bad, whether it does little/nothing, renders him incapable, or kills him.

So you're willing to just believe a known misinformer telling that they got a fucking brain hemorrhage from a punch in the face? They even walked prefectly fine away without even staggering. This is insanity.

>No, they should have been opposed - by ideas, not milkshakes and violence.

Do you think that the first step antifascist action takes is straight up violence? That no one tried to say "hey, you shouldn't exclude and demonize these people guys"? This is insanity.

>I never brought up that he's neutral, and I never said that he's neutral. He is, however, an American citizen who has every goddamn right to be on that street without being accosted.

The implication certainly is there. I feel like this is an incredibly reductionist argument that hinges on him just being there doing nothing but spectating while being free of the consequences of his actions. Liberal societies unfortunately defend the right to promote fascist ideas, and I'm saying that's morally reprehensible and open to being violently acted upon.

>You don't get to beat up your political opponents. period.

Even when the direct result of said policies is violence against you? In this moral framework the war against nazi Germany was a bad thing. This is insanity.

(ID: 69a12e)Country code: at, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313042

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>>313040
It's for mixing really. It's an orange liqueur dyed blue. So when you see a blue or green cocktail, it almost certainly has blue curacao in it.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313043

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>>313041
>No, it's just a comparison. Whataboutism would be defending the action by saying that the other people did the same thing under the same circumstances.
Whataboutism is about diminishing an opposing point by instead pointing to something else, often as something worse and more important. It doesn't have to be the same circumstance, merely the fact that it is intended to negate the initial point, without addressing the point.

>So you're willing to just believe a known misinformer telling that they got a fucking brain hemorrhage from a punch in the face? They even walked prefectly fine away without even staggering. This is insanity.

1) It wasn't one punch. 2) The hospital was the one that made the initial claim. 3) You can die from a single punch, as if being pummeled isn't bad enough. 4) People can die from injuries days after they receive them. 5) How about just not punching people, you violent fuck? 6) What insanity!

>Do you think that the first step antifascist action takes is straight up violence?

I don't know. This is irrelevant now.
>That no one tried to say "hey, you shouldn't exclude and demonize these people guys"?
I don't even know who you're defending, here. This makes literally no sense. If Antifa shows up to protest someone, that doesn't mean the people they protest necessarily hold the views they claim to be protesting. This is insanity!

>The implication certainly is there. I feel like this is an incredibly reductionist argument that hinges on him just being there doing nothing but spectating while being free of the consequences of his actions. Liberal societies unfortunately defend the right to promote fascist ideas, and I'm saying that's morally reprehensible and open to being violently acted upon.

and I'm saying you're a piece of shit, specifically because you would violently act upon those who have taken no action towards you.

>Even when the direct result of said policies is violence against you?

unless you can prove that unequivocally, yes.

>In this moral framework the war against nazi Germany was a bad thing.

Do you even fucking know world war I or II history? Do you even know who attacked, when, or why? Do you know who defended who, or why?

>>313042 interesting

Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313044

>>313043
>Whataboutism is about diminishing an opposing point by instead pointing to something else, often as something worse and more important. It doesn't have to be the same circumstance, merely the fact that it is intended to negate the initial point, without addressing the point.
Yeah, sure. Too bad I addressed the point and gave that line as an additional qualifier to why claiming that antifascist action is actually fascist is ridiculous.

>1) It wasn't one punch.

Maybe two?

>2) The hospital was the one that made the initial claim.

Fine. I'm still sceptical, but willing to concede the notion.

>3) You can die from a single punch, as if being pummeled isn't bad enough. 4) People can die from injuries days after they receive them. 5) How about just not punching people, you violent fuck? 6) What insanity!

Should I play the irrelevant card on this?

>I don't even know who you're defending, here. This makes literally no sense.

I'm saying that of course antifascist action starts at telling people to cut it out. It doesn't work. Group mobilization does.

>and I'm saying you're a piece of shit, specifically because you would violently act upon those who have taken no action towards you.

No I wouldn't. My position from the start has been that if someone decides to lash out against a fascism enabler, I'm going to side with them when liberals come cry about all violence being bad. My position from the start has been that not all violence is bad, and that the magnitude of harm caused to the victim absolutely matters. If someone got killed for wearing a maga-hat, I would absolutely agree that's too much.

>Do you even fucking know world war I or II history? Do you even know who attacked, when, or why? Do you know who defended who, or why?

That's not the point. The point is that in the moral framework you've advocated for, it would be wrong to oppose Nazis with non-political opposition. After all, it's just a difference in political opinion.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313077

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>>313044
>Yeah, sure. Too bad I addressed the point and gave that line as an additional qualifier to why claiming that antifascist action is actually fascist is ridiculous.
You can employ all of the tactics of fascism, without being a fascist. And if you use all the tactics of fascism, then it's not unreasonable to say that you look like a fascist, regardless of which side you claim to be on.

>Maybe two?

Does your gaslighting actually work on anyone, ever? I'm curious.

>Should I play the irrelevant card on this?

What part of you saying 'being punched is not that bad' and then me pointing out why it's bad is irrelevant exactly? Be honest, you just want license to hurt, maim, and even kill your political rivals and get away with it. "It's just a punch!" "It's just a bikelock!" "It's just a crowbar!" "It's just acid a milkshake!"

>I'm saying that of course antifascist action starts at telling people to cut it out. It doesn't work. Group mobilization does.

You don't get to arbitrarily decide what people need to "cut out", and people are justified in telling you to go fuck yourself when you do. If it isn't illegal, then you have no right to stop them.

>If someone got killed for wearing a maga-hat, I would absolutely agree that's too much.

So what is an "ok" punishment for the high crime of wearing a MAGA hat? permanent disfigurement? maybe chop off a limb or two? a broken nose? go on, I'd love to hear your psycho fantasies.

>No I wouldn't. My position from the start has been that if someone decides to lash out against a fascism enabler, I'm going to side with them when liberals come cry about all violence being bad. My position from the start has been that not all violence is bad, and that the magnitude of harm caused to the victim absolutely matters.

You don't seem to understand that this goes both ways. If you're justifying violence against your rivals, then they are 100% justified in using violence back at you. Pre-emptively, just like you would. Why? Because this is the world you want - where violence replaces discourse, and the person who shoots first wins. And news flash, tankie LARPers are not going to win that fight. For your own sake, you should rethink this position.

You also don't seem to understand that violence escalates. If you punch me in the face, I'm going to beat your face in. If you come at me with a knife, I'm going to do my damndest to kill you. If you throw a milkshake at me, I'm going to shove the entire McDonald's Dollar Menu down your throat. You seem to think you get to just walk up and punch me with impunity, or stab me, or throw shit, and I just have to take it. That ain't reality. Unless you are prepared to face the consequences of the escalation that is the inevitable result of your pipedream Résistance, maybe you should consider not doing it. Because, again, that isn't a fight you're going to win.

>The point is that in the moral framework you've advocated for, it would be wrong to oppose Nazis with non-political opposition. After all, it's just a difference in political opinion.

Here's a shock for you - the actions you're justified in taking depend on the actions taken by the group you are opposing. A difficult concept, I know. It's the reason that "killing baby Hitler" in the thought experiment means you're a bad person, regardless of the outcome. If the government is using violence against you, then you're justified in defending yourself. But this just gets into a murky debate about what violence actually is, and you're a moron, so I'm not going to waste my time with that discussion.

Do you know what the difference is between a terrorist and a freedom fighter? - one attacks the people, the other attacks the government. You clearly fancy yourself as some sort of freedom fighter, struggling against tyranny and oppression with righteous justified violence, but all I see is a willing would-be terrorist. because you make no distinction between government and civilians, between policy makers and those who support them. If you want to fight the government, even with violence, I don't think that's going to work out well for you, but you do you. When you're sitting here like a little scumfuck justifying violence against civilians for merely having the wrong opinions, or wearing the wrong hat, you can just go fuck yourself.

Snowbell (ID: e96df0)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313081

File: 1562871913665.jpg (94.18 KB, 1200x900, zMRD8zs.jpg)

>Why do liberals have such a hard time identifying antifascists as the good guys?

The mind boggles...

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 05cdb7)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313102

File: 1562883929101.png (120.82 KB, 305x278, drt67.PNG)

>>313077
>"It's just acid a milkshake!"
What I find interesting is that you keep saying "okay, they didn't do that, but the idea is out there now, so they might"; but the people who are putting that idea out there are that Andy ngo guy and you.

It's like, your the ones giving them the idea, and spreading it in the first place, then your going to be upset when they take it.

I find that incredibly perplexing.
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🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: a8360c)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313109

>>313102
Next thing you know, people are going to start going to Andy Ngo's address! What you don't know it? Don't worry, I'll private message you, but DON'T do anything ;)

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313110

File: 1562887598561.png (2.76 MB, 1754x1240, 809027__safe_solo_looking+at+y…)

>>313102 It's like I said before, one failed bombing is why everyone takes their shoes off at the airport now. The "meme" of putting bombs in shoes is the one and only reason for this. The "meme" of things-in-shakes, which is incredibly easy to disguise by the way, is also just out there now, so you'd be a fool to assume no one's going to do this. If someone who openly hates you brings a water gun and starts shooting you with it, are you going to assume there's only water in it?

You also have a group that has zero qualms about casually walking up to people and striking them in the head with deadly force, because they can shrink back into the crowd under the cloak of anonymity, and the police literally don't care. Do you think these people will have ANY reservations about putting harmful substances into shakes? Really? Are you willing to take that risk? Or is it that you only don't care because it isn't happening to you?
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Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 656be8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313116

File: 1562888870744.png (138.84 KB, 318x363, 789797.PNG)

>>313110
But the "meme" was started by, and being spread by those that it would endanger.

That's what's perplexing.

The false reporting is what put it in the public spotlight, and you mentioning it in every other post as if it's something that happened, not only skews the reality of the situation, but it's also spreading the idea.
I mean, for all intents we can consider foxanon an antifa member, and he never even considered that until you brought it up.

It's just funny, in the same way the right wing political commentators have gotten the left wing to promote their videos so much.

I guess I just find it interesting.
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313117

File: 1562889015762.png (412.64 KB, 1280x678, 576142.png)

>>313116 My not mentioning it makes zero difference at this point, because there are already people out there who've heard it and are thinking "why didn't we think of that?" and I can guarantee there will be people trying to hide things that are not easily detectable in shakes. whether that's something "harmless" like urine or actually toxic and potentially life-altering. It makes no difference to me, because there's no justification for throwing shakes at people. period.
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Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 656be8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313119

File: 1562889354051.png (1.05 MB, 1920x1440, 1532987594478.png)

>>313117
Some more great ideas for those watching along at home.

But still, the whole thing was started and spread by the people it would be aimed at with false information and lies.

It's like if the Germans had just broadcast the enigma code by accident and everyone was like, "well, it's already out there, might as well just talk about our ship movements at the bar now."

I guess it's just funny to watch people with no tactics fight... Or... I guess it's funny that this is a tactic.
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313123

File: 1562890199911.png (124.96 KB, 1013x1211, 1083581__safe_solo_cute_lookin…)

>>313119 Do you think it's better to assume these fine upstanding individuals, who definitely don't despise the people they are protesting and assaulting, wouldn't dream of throwing anything other than the purest whole milk shakes? Why yes sir, I would enjoy being showered in a stranger's mystery drink. When someone punches you in the face, do you also thank them for only punching you in the face?

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 656be8)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313130

File: 1562890462640.png (318.78 KB, 566x484, 465989897845.PNG)

>>313123
I don't think your understanding what I'm saying, and I don't think its important enough to continue.

Carry on.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313199

>>313123
If we're entering the realm of what could be possible, we're left with endless possibilities. I could spike cookies I sell on the street with Giardia or something like this, but that doesn't mean that selling cookies should never be tolerated.

I could use a concealed carry fireram to murder multiple members of a whole crowd any time I wanted to.

Security risks are always like this. Because security responds to what is possible, and not what is already done, you can literally justify any amount of security, and because we have no sufficient way of accurately evaluating the likeliness of this outcome, it's useless to have this discussion.
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Anonymous (ID: fa6b6b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313218

>>313077
>You can employ all of the tactics of fascism, without being a fascist. And if you use all the tactics of fascism, then it's not unreasonable to say that you look like a fascist, regardless of which side you claim to be on.
And they only look like fascists to people who don't know better, which is the whole point of the thread.

>Does your gaslighting actually work on anyone, ever? I'm curious.

I'm giving you my interpretation of the footage of the attack. Does it even matter how many punches were dealt exactly?

>What part of you saying 'being punched is not that bad' and then me pointing out why it's bad is irrelevant exactly? Be honest, you just want license to hurt, maim, and even kill your political rivals and get away with it. "It's just a punch!" "It's just a bikelock!" "It's just a crowbar!" "It's just acid a milkshake!"

Who was gaslighting who exactly? Reminder that antifascist deathtoll is zero. Reminder that Andy Ngo is the one who doxxed a person after they got their spine broken by a Proud Boy. Whataboutism? Who cares.

>You don't get to arbitrarily decide what people need to "cut out"

Is it arbritary to decide that some people should probably cut it out with the "jews shall not replace us" shit for example?

>If it isn't illegal, then you have no right to stop them.

Legal = moral btw.

>You don't seem to understand that this goes both ways. If you're justifying violence against your rivals, then they are 100% justified in using violence back at you.

As I said before, what you are advocating for with your violence is absolutely relevant. It is justified to fight against fascism. Some would even get to call it self defence.

>Pre-emptively, just like you would.

Can you like stop defamating me? To you pre-emptive action is anything before the ashes of people start floating through the chimney.

>Why? Because this is the world you want - where violence replaces discourse, and the person who shoots first wins.

No, what I'm saying is that fascists don't get a seat at the table.

>And news flash, tankie LARPers are not going to win that fight.

And that's a good thing.

>For your own sake, you should rethink this position.

So that innocent movements like the Proud Boys or Identity Evropa have less resistance?

>You also don't seem to understand that violence escalates. If you punch me in the face, I'm going to beat your face in. If you come at me with a knife, I'm going to do my damndest to kill you. If you throw a milkshake at me, I'm going to shove the entire McDonald's Dollar Menu down your throat. You seem to think you get to just walk up and punch me with impunity, or stab me, or throw shit, and I just have to take it. That ain't reality. Unless you are prepared to face the consequences of the escalation that is the inevitable result of your pipedream Résistance, maybe you should consider not doing it. Because, again, that isn't a fight you're going to win.

Ok, weird flex. Kinda cringing right now.

>But this just gets into a murky debate about what violence actually is

Oh my, did you almost realize that violence is more than physical assault?

>>313081
D*mn.

>>313110
This is some straight up fascist shit.
<create a narrative that the milkshakes thrown at you contain dangerous materials
<no evidence, admit that it was a lie
<but now future milkshakes are definitely dangerous
<because of your fabricated narrative becoming reality
<repeat ad infinitum
I think they actually removed harmful substances from the shakes by going vegan. No cows were forced into labour for this protest!

>and the police literally don't care.

The fuck do you mean? The police are literally there to protect the far-right rallies from antifascists.
Portland Police Attack Antifa
I suggest to take a look at the comments too, since you're so concerned about civilians.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313288

>>313199 What's the result, when one person licks a tub of icecream and sticks it back on the shelf? All of the icecream of that particular brand and flavor, in the entire region (sometimes even country), gets inspected on suspicion of being the tampered tub. Even in cases that are demonstrably hoaxes, precautions are taken to make sure that none of the ice cream on the shelves has been tampered with. According to your statement here, this is an overreaction to something that has a minuscule chance of effecting any individual tub, and is thus a waste of time/resources. Yet that's not how people behave, and not how reality works. If you take part in the lottery, where you have a 0.01% chance of something terrible happening to you every time you play, and there's no benefit to taking part in the lottery, that's a shit lottery no reasonable person would take part in, because you can never win - you can only lose. This is the milkshake situation.

It sounds like you're saying that because we can't predict with 100% certainty what the actual risk is, we should just not take any precautions. Which is a really weird position, when you're facing people who openly hate you and are part of a group that is more than willing to assault you. literally the people I'd be least willing to give the benefit of the doubt in the fucking world. So why exactly should I assume that person with the crowbar isn't intending to use it? Why should I assume that milkshake is just a milkshake? What is the benefit to me, of assuming the milkshake is a milkshake, if regardless of what is in it, I'm going to do everything possible to not get covered in it?

>>313218
>And they only look like fascists to people who don't know better, which is the whole point of the thread.
Like many others here, I don't think you know what a fascist is. You know what a Nazi is, somewhat. But while all Nazis are fascists, not all fascists are Nazis.

>I'm giving you my interpretation of the footage of the attack.

I'm curious what your opinion on the attack would be if Andy Ngo were replaced instead by someone whose politics you agreed with. You don't have to answer that, because I already know.

>Does it even matter how many punches were dealt exactly?

If we can agree that one is too many, then no. But if you're minimizing it by saying "it's not that bad" then yes, because it is that bad.

>Reminder that antifascist deathtoll is zero.

Since we're resorting to whataboutisms, reminder that the "antifascist" deathtoll is in the tens of millions.

>Reminder that Andy Ngo is the one who doxxed a person after they got their spine broken by a Proud Boy.

I don't know. Maybe in communist Euroland, you don't have basic rights, like knowing the identity of your accuser. Unless this person was a minor, there is no reasonable justification for keeping their identity private since they are part of this public criminal investigation.

>Whataboutism? Who cares.

You don't get a license to use vigilante justice because of something that someone else did.

>Is it arbritary to decide that some people should probably cut it out with the "jews shall not replace us" shit for example?

[insert Voltaire]

>Legal = moral btw

never said it was. If you disagree with the law, then you can push to change the law. You don't get to take the law into your own hands.

>Can you like stop defamating me? To you pre-emptive action is anything before the ashes of people start floating through the chimney.

You're literally calling people fascist, many of whom are not fascist, and then using that as justification to attack them, because you either don't know or care what a fascist is.

>No, what I'm saying is that fascists don't get a seat at the table.

and anyone you disagree with is a fascist, amirite?

>And that's a good thing.

weird flex, but ok.

>So that innocent movements like the Proud Boys or Identity Evropa have less resistance?

How about countering their bad ideas with better ideas, instead of losing the argument by resorting to terrorism?

>Ok, weird flex. Kinda cringing right now.

If I'm not mistaken, weren't you the person who said you'd love to forcibly put people who disagree with you in camps and/or execute them? If you think I consider you anything other than a psychopath, you're very mistaken.

>Oh my, did you almost realize that violence is more than physical assault?

words hurt, so if someone hurts your feelings, you're justified in attacking them. sjw logic in a nutshell.

>This is some straight up fascist shit.

Again, you don't know what fascism is.

>I think they actually removed harmful substances from the shakes by going vegan. No cows were forced into labour for this protest!

funny.

>The fuck do you mean? The police are literally there to protect the far-right rallies from antifascists.

meanwhile, Antifa is directing traffic while the police literally stand by and do nothing, based on the orders of both the mayor and police chief of Portland. Antifa - people who think they're above the law, and apparently are.

>video

What point are you trying to make here, exactly?
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313289

File: 1562947336389.jpg (43.9 KB, 625x351, 3cpAS6L.jpg)

>>313218
>As I said before, what you are advocating for with your violence is absolutely relevant. It is justified to fight against fascism. Some would even get to call it self defence.
>
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Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313298

>>313288
>where you have a 0.01% chance of something terrible happening to you ever time you play, and there's no benefit to taking part in the lottery, that's a shit lottery no reasonable person would take part in, because you can never win - you can only lose. This is the milkshake situation.
Of course, but everything we do is risky in this way. You can't avoid risk. There will always be some element of risk present in everything we do.

>It sounds like you're saying that because we can't predict with 100% certainty what the actual risk is, we should just not take any precautions.

I think I'm more saying, we can't reasonably predict what's going to be in the milkshakes. And we can't expect there to be something in the milkshakes, since no previously recorded incident of a spiked antifa milkshake has been observed (correct me on this if I'm wrong).

>literally the people I'd be least willing to give the benefit of the doubt in the fucking world. So why exactly should I assume that person with the crowbar isn't intending to use it?

But this is like your subjective opinion right?

Statistically speaking, left wing extremist groups seem far less likely to commit violence than other extremist political groups who are nonetheless tolerated in public spaces. It would seem from a purely rational point of view, that the groups with a greater propensity towards violence should be the security threat worth adressing foremost, if any security threat must be adressed, and if adressed properly, it would likely reduce the threat of antifa as well, as they tend to mainly respond to the threat of right wing extremism.

It seems to me, that the asessment of threat is purely subjective, as long as there are no prior incidents of spiked milkshakes to rely on. I don't think the discussion we're having here will lead anywhere. Any amount of perception of risk is possible, it is possible to imagine anything. We can thus justify any security measure we wish to justify.

I don't believe that things can be proven with 100% certainty, and I don't think this should be the standard for what we choose to respond to with security. But maybe some kind of robust justification is needed.
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313300

File: 1562950136232.png (94.14 KB, 935x720, 576139.png)

>>313298
>Of course, but everything we do is risky in this way. You can't avoid risk. There will always be some element of risk present in everything we do.
True. Do you take measures to minimize risks?

>I think I'm more saying, we can't reasonably predict what's going to be in the milkshakes. And we can't expect there to be something in the milkshakes, since no previously recorded incident of a spiked antifa milkshake has been observed (correct me on this if I'm wrong).

We can predict what's in the milkshakes. Most of them will be regular milkshakes. Some of them will be tampered with and not necessarily dangerous (e.g. spoiled milk). And some of them will be dangerous - this is a statistical certainty at this point, given enough time and enough milkshakes. Are you willing to bet your life on the milkshake being thrown at you only being a milkshake? given that you win nothing if you are correct, this seems like a foolish bet to make. You can't win; you can only lose.

>But this is like your subjective opinion right?

Since this is my subjective opinion, should I just assume that a black-block individual holding a baseball bat doesn't intend to beat the shit out of me if I voice my disagreement with him? Should I take zero precautions when confronted with this individual? If so, what is the benefit of doing so?

>Statistically speaking, left wing extremist groups seem far less likely to commit violence than other extremist political groups who are nonetheless tolerated in public spaces.

disagree. If you're talking about shootings, then yes.

>It would seem from a purely rational point of view, that the groups with a greater propensity towards violence should be the security threat worth adressing foremost, if any security threat must be adressed, and if adressed properly, it would likely reduce the threat of antifa as well, as they tend to mainly respond to the threat of right wing extremism.

How do you propose doing this, since anyone they disagree with is labeled a right wing extremist. As demonstrated in this thread, merely questioning their motives gets me labeled as a "cryptofascist" - yet another meaningless buzzword intended to delegitimize people's opinions - despite the fact that I'm center left.

>It seems to me, that the asessment of threat is purely subjective, as long as there are no prior incidents of spiked milkshakes to rely on. I don't think the discussion we're having here will lead anywhere. Any amount of perception of risk is possible, it is possible to imagine anything. We can thus justify any security measure we wish to justify.


>I don't believe that things can be proven with 100% certainty, and I don't think this should be the standard for what we choose to respond to with security. But maybe some kind of robust justification is needed.


I've used shoes at airports as an example several times in this thread for a reason.

Toybox(Professional Slut)!!Celestia (ID: cb2c3e)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313307

File: 1562950750592.png (1.14 MB, 1920x1080, Screenshot_20181002-100331.png)

>>313218
>It is justified to fight against fascism. Some would even get to call it self defence.

There is no court in the entire US that would agree with you on this.

A self-defense plea requires you to uphold the 'Duty to Withdraw' which states that if you have the chance to get away from the conflict you are obligated to do so. If you choose not to, it no longer qualifies as self defense.

Meaning that if you purposely go out and fight someone you deem a 'fascist' it does not count as anything close to self defense and no court in the US will agree to that.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313308

>>313300
>True. Do you take measures to minimize risks?
Sure, maybe I do something like a calculation thinking about how risky I think something is vs how easily it's mitigated.

>We can predict what's in the milkshakes. Most of them will be regular milkshakes. Some of them will be tampered with and not necessarily dangerous (e.g. spoiled milk). And some of them will be dangerous - this is a statistical certainty at this point, given enough time and enough milkshakes. Are you willing to bet your life on the milkshake being thrown at you only being a milkshake? given that you win nothing if you are correct, this seems like a foolish bet to make. You can't win; you can only lose.

I'm not sure that's actually certain. Is it even certain that milkshaking will continue?

>disagree. If you're talking about shootings, then yes.

The main statistics I've seen are comparisons of body counts.

>How do you propose doing this, since anyone they disagree with is labeled a right wing extremist. As demonstrated in this thread, merely questioning their motives gets me labeled as a "cryptofascist" - yet another meaningless buzzword intended to delegitimize people's opinions - despite the fact that I'm center left.

I don't know if I even think that they should be regulated any differently than they are now.

My point is simply, that if we want to regulate whether or not people can carry milkshakes, we would also have to regulate behaviors of groups that are more violent than antifa, to the same or greater degree, if we want to be consistent.

>I've used shoes at airports as an example several times in this thread for a reason.

But just because the TSA does something, this doesn't make it a great policy?

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313312

And I guess another thing that one could bring up, given that the US has one of the highest rates of gun violence and murder in the world.

Is it reasonable to assume, that you think it is never justified to carry a gun, since this poses a very present risk to everyone in the vicinity, much more present, than that of a milkshake, even if it is being thrown at you, if we consider prior incidences.

Considering that there have so far been no deaths from milkshakes, and in fact no deaths from antifa.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313313

File: 1562952852391.png (539.63 KB, 1024x1434, 1395200205402.png)

>>313308
>Sure, maybe I do something like a calculation thinking about how risky I think something is vs how easily it's mitigated.
How much more difficult is it to avoid a dangerous milkshake than a regular milkshake?

>I'm not sure that's actually certain. Is it even certain that milkshaking will continue?

Yes. This is a meme now, and unless the criminal justice system starts handing out fines and prison sentences for milkshaking, there is no reason to expect a decrease in the amount of milkshake attacks.

>The main statistics I've seen are comparisons of body counts.

Then I agree, but it should be noted that the vast majority of these body counts are not from protesters and counterprotesters coming into contact with each other. I see this as a conflation of presumably right wing terrorism (because in many cases this distinction is meaningless) as applied to those who are merely (presumably) right wing, as if by virtue of being right wing, they are inherently dangerous. I would say that a person at a rally in a MAGA hat is inherently less dangerous than a black-block LARPer based on the fact that appearing in black block is intended specifically to allow that individual to break the law anonymously.

>I don't know if I even think that they should be regulated any differently than they are now.

I tend to agree.

>My point is simply, that if we want to regulate whether or not people can carry milkshakes, we would also have to regulate behaviors of groups that are more violent than antifa, to the same or greater degree, if we want to be consistent.

As I understand it, this is generally the case already. For example, bans on blunt objects and things that can be used as weapons - though people invariably get around them.

>But just because the TSA does something, this doesn't make it a great policy?

No, it's not a great policy, but its an example of the normalization of risk aversion to levels that are way less sensible than simply avoiding milkshakes.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313315

>>313313
>How much more difficult is it to avoid a dangerous milkshake than a regular milkshake?
It's about equally difficult.

>Yes. This is a meme now, and unless the criminal justice system starts handing out fines and prison sentences for milkshaking, there is no reason to expect a decrease in the amount of milkshake attacks

Don't memes typically die out?

>Then I agree, but it should be noted that the vast majority of these body counts are not from protesters and counterprotesters coming into contact with each other. I see this as a conflation of presumably right wing terrorism (because in many cases this distinction is meaningless) as applied to those who are merely (presumably) right wing, as if by virtue of being right wing, they are inherently dangerous. I would say that a person at a rally in a MAGA hat is inherently less dangerous than a black-block LARPer based on the fact that appearing in black block is intended specifically to allow that individual to break the law anonymously.

Sure but then we're back to having virtually no empirical evidence to rely on.

>As I understand it, this is generally the case already. For example, bans on blunt objects and things that can be used as weapons - though people invariably get around them.

Yeah there were like tons of objects that could be used as weapons at the charlottesville protest for example, iirc.

>No, it's not a great policy, but its an example of the normalization of risk aversion to levels that are way less sensible than simply avoiding milkshakes.

The TSA has always been nonsensical to a certain degree! It's responding to a certain zeitgeist, it could almost be argued for the TSA, that the intention with it's implementation is as much to keep people feeling secure, as it is to deter terrorists.

Mint horse (ID: fb625b)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313316

File: 1562953300327.jpg (16.44 KB, 200x303, C9742608-4E14-4739-918E-F6F5D1…)

I wonder if OP would actually have the balls to take his fash basing principles into the real world.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313317

File: 1562953679543.png (279.22 KB, 1208x1024, 5761451.png)

>>313315
>It's about equally difficult.
Then there's no reason not to hope for the best and plan for the worst, is there?

>Don't memes typically die out?

The meme of marching around carrying signs has been a thing since... what, centuries ago?

>Sure but then we're back to having virtually no empirical evidence to rely on.

What do you propose then?

>Yeah there were like tons of objects that could be used as weapons at the charlottesville protest for example, iirc.

It hasn't been applied universally, but that's one method that has been used.

>The TSA has always been nonsensical to a certain degree! It's responding to a certain zeitgeist, it could almost be argued for the TSA, that the intention with it's implementation is as much to keep people feeling secure, as it is to deter terrorists.

I agree. But it's an example.
If someone points a gun at you, are you going to wait until they pull the trigger to find out if it's loaded or not?
What if they pinkie swore it was unloaded and said it's just a prank bro? Wouldn't that make it all better?
You'd be a fool to not take their word for it, especially if it's someone who openly hates you.
Silly crybabies complaining about people pointing unloaded guns at them. psh.
This post was edited by its author on .

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313322

>>313317
Well I guess there's no reason not to, but from my perspective there's not really a sufficient reason to do it either.

When we're talking about security, I think a sufficient reason for implementation is required.

>The meme of marching around carrying signs has been a thing since... what, centuries ago?

Yeah, but that's just effective and pragmatic.

Milkshaking someone, idk if it's got that same kind of basic functionality going for it. It's a pretty elaborate behavior, and it doesn't really have a clear political advantage. It's kinda just helping the fashies mobilize.

>What do you propose then?

Maybe that fascist ideologies be judged by the the content of the ideologies, and that the people who openly embody these ideologies be treated as a greater threat than the people there to oppose them.

>If someone points a gun at you, are you going to wait until they pull the trigger to find out if it's loaded or not?

>What if they pinkie swore it was unloaded and said it's just a prank bro? >Wouldn't that make it all better?
>You'd be a fool to not take their word for it, especially if it's someone who openly hates you.
>Silly crybabies complaining about people pointing unloaded guns at them. psh.
A milkshake isn't a gun, though. And it's never been a gun. Guns have been used to murder millions of people. Milkshakes have never murdered anyone, as far as we're aware, and neither has an antifa member.

Both of your examples kinda rely on relating to a concept which is not equivalent in the ways that are relevant to the discussion.

---

Another note is that:
>I would say that a person at a rally in a MAGA hat is inherently less dangerous than a black-block LARPer based on the fact that appearing in black block is intended specifically to allow that individual to break the law anonymously.
Antifa members tend to wear masks to avoid backlash from fascist groups, who can and have targeted those who oppose them, when they are aware of their identities.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 555805)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313324

File: 1562954855109.png (291.55 KB, 452x609, 1550899549313.png)

>>313316
Resounding "no".

Also, I'm starting to wonder what's worse... Punching, screaming and throwing things at each other, or discussing it for 3 days straight haha.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313326

File: 1562954974706.png (113.91 KB, 400x398, asaadff.png)

>>313322
>Well I guess there's no reason not to, but from my perspective there's not really a sufficient reason to do it either.
That's fine. Seems like a valid personal choice then, doesn't it?

>When we're talking about security, I think a sufficient reason for implementation is required.

What would the implementation be in this case? It's already assault, whether or not it's just a milkshake, so how about just cracking down on the behavior in the first place?

>Yeah, but that's just effective and pragmatic.

What is ineffective or not pragmatic about using a milkshake, to those who would use milkshakes?

>Milkshaking someone, idk if it's got that same kind of basic functionality going for it. It's a pretty elaborate behavior, and it doesn't really have a clear political advantage. It's kinda just helping the fashies mobilize.

I mean, if you're using violence in politics, then yes, I can see why it would be mobilizing people against you. and rightfully so.

>Maybe that fascist ideologies be judged by the the content of the ideologies, and that the people who openly embody these ideologies be treated as a greater threat than the people there to oppose them.

I agree. However, I disagree that the people being labeled as fascists are necessarily fascists, especially when you can literally look up the things they've said have almost nothing in common with fascism. Oh, you found one fascist out of like, a hundred thousand people? Congratufuckinglations, that doesn't mean everyone else you dislike agrees with them. Once people stop labeling their political opponents as fascists, come back to me with this argument.

>A milkshake isn't a gun, though. And it's never been a gun. Guns have been used to murder millions of people. Milkshakes have never murdered anyone, as far as we're aware,

A milkshake in a previous incarnation was a rock.
Don't throw things at your political rivals if you want the moral high ground.

>and neither has an antifa member.

They only tried, so it's ok!

>Both of your examples kinda rely on relating to a concept which is not equivalent in the ways that are relevant to the discussion.

I shouldn't need these examples, but for some reason, people here think it's ok to assault others.

>Antifa members tend to wear masks to avoid backlash from fascist groups, who can and have targeted those who oppose them, when they are aware of their identities.

In a world where actual fascists are some of the most hated people on the planet, who can lose their jobs and livelihoods for merely being associated with far right groups, isn't it odd that the people who claim to be opposing them are the ones hiding their faces like thieves in the night? Really makes you think.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313336

>>313326
>That's fine. Seems like a valid personal choice then, doesn't it?
Suuuure...

But you should respond with appropriate force. Appropriate. Force.

>What is ineffective or not pragmatic about using a milkshake, to those who would use milkshakes?

Just read the next sentence and you're good.

>Congratufuckinglations, that doesn't mean everyone else you dislike agrees with them. Once people stop labeling their political opponents as fascists, come back to me with this argument.

It's pretty obvious when someone is a fascist and when someone is not.

>A milkshake in a previous incarnation was a rock.

What? Like, spiritually?

>They only tried, so it's ok!

When has an antifa member tried to kill someone at a rally?

>I shouldn't need these examples, but for some reason, people here think it's ok to assault others.

Well, I mean, if it really stood to reason, you'd think you wouldn't have to resort to poor analogies. Either way it's just not convincing.

>In a world where actual fascists are some of the most hated people on the planet, who can lose their jobs and livelihoods for merely being associated with far right groups, isn't it odd that the people who claim to be opposing them are the ones hiding their faces like thieves in the night? Really makes you think.

I mean, these people are actually dangerous, and yeah, they're reviled, but that doesn't make them impotent. Again, I don't know if you know this, but a lot of people are killed by far right extremist terrorism. It's pretty sensible to protect your identity.

Mint horse (ID: fb625b)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313342

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>>313324
Well at least the punching and screaming is over within a few minutes. Plus by the end of it your head probably won’t be any where near as sore.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313343

File: 1562956883513.png (152.17 KB, 814x1024, 6dnfgbf.png)

>>313336
>Suuuure...
glad that's settled.

>But you should respond with appropriate force. Appropriate. Force.

I agree. What is appropriate force when someone is throwing something at you?

>Just read the next sentence and you're good.

ok.

>It's pretty obvious when someone is a fascist and when someone is not.

If they disagree with you, they're a fascist?
Am I a fascist?

>What? Like, spiritually?

No, literally. If you were part of a mob that hated someone enough that you wanted to cause physical harm without necessarily killing them, you pelted them with rocks. which also provided plausible deniability that you didn't intend to kill them.

>When has an antifa member tried to kill someone at a rally?

every time they've bludgeoned someone in the head with deadly force.

>Well, I mean, if it really stood to reason, you'd think you wouldn't have to resort to poor analogies. Either way it's just not convincing.

And yet you won't admit that assault is bad. Amazing.

>I mean, these people are actually dangerous, and yeah, they're reviled, but that doesn't make them impotent.

Wearing a MAGA hat makes you dangerous. the takes! Incredible.

>Again, I don't know if you know this, but a lot of people are killed by far right extremist terrorism. It's pretty sensible to protect your identity.

Someone shot up a bunch of people at a mosque, therefore someone else who doesn't support his actions is dangerous. Logic!

a lost pony !piNKiEPie. (ID: 4246f5)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313345

>>311919
Because they use violence without proper cause.

I love violence. I lie in wait for years for opportunities to use it against those who use it against me.

Beating protesters is bad guy behavior, hence antifa is bad guys.

This isn't complicated.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313348

File: 1562957698579.jpg (Spoiler Image, 34.08 KB, 679x514, 61-UFS1KcCL._UX679_.jpg)

Guns don't kill people.
>
kills people.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313349

>>313343
>I agree. What is appropriate force when someone is throwing something at you?
If it's a milkshake, I would just let it be. It wouldn't bother me enough, personally, that I'd want to get into an altercation about it.

>If they disagree with you, they're a fascist?

>Am I a fascist?
No, I don't have any reason to think you are?

>No, literally. If you were part of a mob that hated someone enough that you wanted to cause physical harm without necessarily killing them, you pelted them with rocks. which also provided plausible deniability that you didn't intend to kill them.

Okay, so I guess you mean that it's like a replacement behavior, but a milkshake isn't equivalent to a rock. It won't case physical trauma. So again, I think these ideas aren't really equivalent where it's relevant to the discussion.

>every time they've bludgeoned someone in the head with deadly force.

You'd think if they were using deadly force, people would have died, right?

>And yet you won't admit that assault is bad. Amazing.

I'm not saying it's not mean or rude, to throw milkshakes at people.

but I think maybe it can be justified sometimes.

>Wearing a MAGA hat makes you dangerous. the takes! Incredible.

I'm not talking about people wearing MAGA hats Boat. Why are you pulling a motte and bailey here? I mean Fascists, obviously. Can't you tell I mean fascists, when I'm responding to your sentence, in which you're talking about fascists?

>Someone shot up a bunch of people at a mosque, therefore someone else who doesn't support his actions is dangerous. Logic!

When you expose your identity as someone who resists fascism, actual fascists, who do tend to hold genocidal views, will have a chance of responding to that.

You see, just because there are people in a crowd that the mask isn't needed to protect you from, doesn't mean that the mask can't be effective in protecting you from some people.
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Anonymous (ID: b1ed87)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313350

File: 1562957720849.jpg (11.8 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg)

>>313343
>I agree. What is appropriate force when someone is throwing something at you?

Pull out a gun and say"do you really want to test me?"

a lost pony !piNKiEPie. (ID: 4246f5)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313352

>>313350
Guns aren't for pointing, they are for putting holes in people.

>>313348
Guns dont kill people, maga hats do
This post was edited by its author on .

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313353

>>313348
This is just a Motte and Bailey.

It's kinda sad you do this.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313356

File: 1562958465211.jpg (15.47 KB, 236x377, ac38872882a1c26bf397e78516e060…)

>>313349
>If it's a milkshake, I would just let it be. It wouldn't bother me enough, personally, that I'd want to get into an altercation about it.
Admirable of you, but have you ever been bullied? Do you know what happens when you just let bullies walk all over you? You keep getting bullied.

>No, I don't have any reason to think you are?

I'm shocked!

>Okay, so I guess you mean that it's like a replacement behavior, but a milkshake isn't equivalent to a rock. It won't case physical trauma. So again, I think these ideas aren't really equivalent where it's relevant to the discussion.

It demonstrates that the meme of throwing nonlethal things at your rivals, to hurt and humiliate them, goes back thousands of years.

>You'd think if they were using deadly force, people would have died, right?

There's a reason this is called "attempted murder" and not "murder".

>I'm not saying it's not mean or rude, to throw milkshakes at people.

>but I think maybe it can be justified sometimes.
/sigh

>I'm not talking about people wearing MAGA hats Boat. Why are you pulling a motte and bailey here? I mean Fascists, obviously. Can't you tell I mean fascists, when I'm responding to your sentence, in which you're talking about fascists?

My apologies. Even so, I would have to disagree. Perhaps you could say a greater proportion are dangerous, which is fair. This assumes we're talking about real terms and not wishy-washy policy position versions of presumed "danger".

>When you expose your identity as someone who resists fascism, actual fascists, who do tend to hold genocidal views, will have a chance of responding to that.

>You see, just because there are people in a crowd that the mask isn't needed to protect you from, doesn't mean that the mask can't be effective in protecting you from some people.
I know why they claim to wear them. And I could accept that reasoning, if not for the fact that people use the anonymity to assault others with impunity.

>>313350 farther than I would go, but also not entirely unreasonable in principle. e.g. you don't have to necessarily point the gun at them, but it gets the point across.

>>313352 the horror!

>>313353 I thought it was pretty funny.

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: e62389)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313358

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>>313342
>Plus by the end of it your head probably won’t be any where near as sore
LOL. Mint made a funny.

Seriously. Idk, maybe I just don't see the significance of what these people do in the broader context.
I feel like it's the political equivalent of fighting over which sports team is better.
Their actions are of no real consequence, any more than soccer hooligans actions really matter unless your directly involved.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313360

>>313356
>Admirable of you, but have you ever been bullied? Do you know what happens when you just let bullies walk all over you? You keep getting bullied.
Maybe what you need to do is start an anti-antifa. Or you can call it the anti-bully patrol.

I joke of course, but can you see how your exact logic here can be used to justify antifascistic action?

>It demonstrates that the meme of throwing nonlethal things at your rivals, to hurt and humiliate them, goes back thousands of years.

Sure, and a milkshake definitely humiliates. But that's kind of the point of a lot of political action. Like your MAGA hats don't kill people joke right now, for example.

>My apologies. Even so, I would have to disagree. Perhaps you could say a greater proportion are dangerous, which is fair.

I think it's possible to be a trump supporter and also be a good person.

My grandma for example, is a single issue abortion voter, so she voted for trump, but she's actually super sweet.

That came out wrong. Good person is such a subjective judgement. It's possible for me to like trump voters, let's say.
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🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 759dff)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313361

File: 1562959392794.png (378 KB, 680x740, 67806779_p5.png)

What kind of person do you imagine when you hear someone condemn civilian violence, but defend the police that protect the status quo and their right to harmful speech? Probably a very small, pathetic, evil, effeminate Asian faggot, right?

🐓 (ID: 6e5905)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313367

>>313361
>[that non-sequitur]
Are you role-playing as Steam Twist?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313368

File: 1562959903123.jpg (100.79 KB, 900x1173, 816993__safe_solo_equestria+gi…)

>>313360
>Maybe what you need to do is start an anti-antifa. Or you can call it the anti-bully patrol.
>I joke of course, but can you see how your exact logic here can be used to justify antifascistic action?
You might think it's funny, but there actually have been groups like this, which have come out to protests and rallies since at least 4 years ago. I'm sure you can guess what they have been labeled as a result?

>Sure, and a milkshake definitely humiliates. But that's kind of the point of a lot of political action. Like your MAGA hats don't kill people joke right now, for example.

True, but I'm also not assaulting anyone by posting that.

>I think it's possible to be a trump supporter and also be a good person.

>My grandma for example, is a single issue abortion voter, so she voted for trump, but she's actually super sweet.
>That came out wrong. Good person is such a subjective judgement. It's possible for me to like trump voters, let's say.
If someone wants to promote their socialist utopia, I'll disagree with them on policy but support their right to be heard. If they want to come out and protest or counterprotest to spread their message, I'll support their rights to do so. But once they start assaulting others and taking steps to shut down other people's free speech, that's when they completely lose me, regardless of who they are or what they claim to stand for.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 759dff)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313369

File: 1562959984247.png (366.96 KB, 527x729, 65722137_p6.png)

The rules in military school were simple: if you threw the first punch, you got in trouble. This resulted in an extremely skewed culture where the most pathetic little shitbugs would constantly instigate the biggest and strongest guys for no reason, hiding behind the consequences of action with their false sense of power. It wasn't a very good system, I feel like it encouraged a very specific behavior in a lot of boys that kept them from becoming men.

The people who try to deny the fact that speech is an action that warrants a consequence are always the most pathetic, slimy little beta males who want to abuse freedom of speech to harm people they otherwise couldn't. False information can be much more harmful than a punch to the face.

>>313367
You're struggling to join the conversation because of your own mental and social shortcomings, but it's expected of you to blame someone else.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313371

>>313368
>I'm sure you can guess what they have been labeled as a result
Fash-adjacent?

>True, but I'm also not assaulting anyone by posting that.

Is it assault? Maybe by some legal definitions.

But it seems the harm done is minimal. The aim is humiliation, as you so aptly pointed out.

>But once they start assaulting others and taking steps to shut down other people's free speech, that's when they completely lose me, regardless of who they are or what they claim to stand for.

I agree partially I suppose. Antifa individuals that actively instigate physical violence shouldn't be regarded kindly.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313372

File: 1562960432544.jpg (147.86 KB, 392x670, asasafafafafaf.jpeg)

>>313369 back to the Wild West it is, then! Fighting Words. Disparage someone's honor, expect to get shot. I'm ok with this. The only people whose honor I disparage are pathetic, slimy beta males, anyway. Like Antifa.

>>313371
>Fash-adjacent?
alt-right primarily. whatever the hell that means.

>Is it assault? Maybe by some legal definitions.

yes.

>But it seems the harm done is minimal. The aim is humiliation, as you so aptly pointed out.

I'm not disputing that.

>I agree partially I suppose. Antifa individuals that actively instigate physical violence shouldn't be regarded kindly.

Once Antifa weeds these people out and stops both covering for and supporting them, I'll consider taking them seriously.
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Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313373

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>>313372
Hey, we did it!

We're de-escalating.

Anonymous (ID: b1ed87)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313374

File: 1562960595860.jpg (11.8 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg)

>>313358
How would you feel if someone splash animal blood on you?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313375

File: 1562960606993.png (161.38 KB, 757x1024, asasadafaff.png)

>>313373 that's no fun

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313376

File: 1562960728146.png (507.78 KB, 600x598, sly orange.png)

>>313375
Being responsible is rarely fun.

Except when you manage to pick the exact right sized leftovers container for your leftovers and it perfectly lines up with the edge.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313377

File: 1562960822796.png (302.45 KB, 1200x1023, 5761450.png)

>>313376 I've heard legends of such containers, but I'm not sure they really exist.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313381

>>313377
You don't have leftovers containers in your state?

Tupperware?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313385

File: 1562962118148.png (379.04 KB, 1280x720, Maud_Pie_with_Gummy_biting_on_…)

>>313381 Nah. We use garbage disposal alligators.
I just watched this editorial, and it pretty well matches my stance on current politics:
I Think "The Left" Is Dead Or Dying, The Democrats Might As Well Be Two Different Parties

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313388

File: 1562962367779.jpg (98.67 KB, 800x1200, 1323fe79676a9e3a9dfcdcd16f91fa…)

>>313385
Really, no offense meant by this, but I would rather stick a toothpick under my toenail and kick a wall than watch Tim Pool tonight.

Mint horse (ID: fb625b)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313392

File: 1562962559680.png (491.43 KB, 805x1024, 0E54CA61-FCB2-405E-B994-D36AD4…)

>>313388
How have you been? Haven’t seen you in awhile.

Snowbell (ID: f850b2)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313400

File: 1562963404153.jpg (516.44 KB, 774x1000, 62135154_p0.jpg)

>>313307
>A self-defense plea requires you to uphold the 'Duty to Withdraw'

Not in states with castle doctrine. There's a reason Antifa types mostly do their thing in cities in blue states.

Of course "he was being fascist" still isn't a legitimate claim to self defense.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 9844a6)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313403

File: 1562964340266.png (353.58 KB, 862x786, Screenshot_20190629-000222_1.p…)

>>313374
Confused, much like I am about the relevance of that question in the context of what I said.

I think I'm being lead into something haha.

Ephemeral (ID: ecd569)Country code: dk, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313406

File: 1562964781744.jpg (53.8 KB, 564x846, Suenos_con_lobos_de_papel.jpeg)

>>313392
eeeeeh

Ups and downs. I was really depressed for a while, but I'm pulling myself together a bit.

It's nice with such an enthusiastic greeting.

I've seen you around on /townhall/ a bit. How have you been doing?

Fox (ID: 0b5063)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313410

>>313288
>Like many others here, I don't think you know what a fascist is.
This is coming from the guy who repeatedly implies that fascism is physical violence against political opponents.

>You don't have to answer that, because I already know.

Ok buddy. If Andy was as dishonest on my side, I would be fine with it.

>reminder that the "antifascist" deathtoll is in the tens of millions

You are making way too many references to stalinism when talking about antifascism.

>weird flex, but ok.

Isn't it your flex?

>If I'm not mistaken, weren't you the person who said you'd love to forcibly put people who disagree with you in camps and/or execute them? If you think I consider you anything other than a psychopath, you're very mistaken.

What the fuck?

>words hurt, so if someone hurts your feelings, you're justified in attacking them. sjw logic in a nutshell.

Words cause people to go out there and shoot up mosques. Words cause people to view non-white people as less than human. Words cause a lot of harm.

>What point are you trying to make here, exactly?

Just evidence that points toward your claims being baloney. Also, worriesome comment section.

>>313307
>There is no court in the entire US that would agree with you on this.
Yeah, of course not. I've had to state like five times in this thread that legality isn't morality.

(ID: f942a2)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313413

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>>313400
Castle doctrine only applies if you are defending your home or property. You can't go into a public space, punch someone you think is a fascist and claim self defense under castle doctrine.

>>313410
Morality is irrelevant in a court of law.
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313414

File: 1562966409115.png (478.59 KB, 1024x1024, 576143.png)

>>313410
>This is coming from the guy who repeatedly implies that fascism is physical violence against political opponents.
It's an important part of it. I don't have to imply that; it just is.

>Ok buddy. If Andy was as dishonest on my side, I would be fine with it.

At least you're consistently wrong, then.

>You are making way too many references to stalinism when talking about antifascism.

He is, after all, one of the definitive antifascists.

>Isn't it your flex?

Not giving people a seat at the table is not my flex, no. You must have me confused with someone else, which isn't too difficult to imagine, given that you can just lump everyone who disagrees with you together as the Enemy of the People.

>What the fuck?

Gulags for the dissidents. Work camps for the nonbelievers. Reeducate or (however unfortunately) die. This is your position regarding your socialist utopia, is it not?

>Words cause people to go out there and shoot up mosques. Words cause people to view non-white people as less than human. Words cause a lot of harm.

Guns don't kill people. Mean words kill people.

>Just evidence that points toward your claims being baloney. Also, worriesome comment section.

I watched the video. very stylized. not much content. a couple of dubious accounts of things that may or may not have happened as stated. If a peaceful assembly turns into an effective riot, do you expect police to just leave them to riot? If so, on what grounds?

Mk17(p-hone)!!Trixie (ID: 9844a6)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313415

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🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 759dff)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313417

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>>313372
After what you've said in this thread, I would definitely include you in the group of bad faith actors that deliberately spread emotionally-charged misinformation to get what you want. You even called right-wing terrorism irrelevant and then proceeded to bring up Stalin as your source of anti-fascist killings, when he was in fact the primary ally of fascism until it was 200% confirmed that Hitler actually invaded Russia.

Being a coward is not a good argument against violence, you're not going to convince anyone that speech is harmless and violence is intolerable (from non-police) by setting this kind of example.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313419

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>>313417
>After what you've said in this thread, I would definitely include you in the group of bad faith actors that deliberately spread emotionally-charged misinformation to get what you want.
What do I want, exactly? For people to stop being fucking morons and return to some semblance of normalcy? Yeah, I guess I do want that. emotionally, even.

>You even called right-wing terrorism irrelevant

It is, unless you're resorting to whataboutism, and if you're going to resort to whataboutism, then it is perfectly justified to bring up:
>and then proceeded to bring up Stalin as your source of anti-fascist killings,

>when he was in fact the primary ally of fascism until it was 200% confirmed that Hitler actually invaded Russia.

That is true, yes. They were technically allied, not for ideological reasons obviously.

>Being a coward is not a good argument against violence,

You're a coward, therefore you pretend to promote violence? Got it. In real life, how big of a pussy are you?
>you're not going to convince anyone that speech is harmless and violence is intolerable (from non-police) by setting this kind of example.
Again, I don't intend to convince you of anything.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 759dff)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313420

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>>313419
>For people to stop being fucking morons and return to some semblance of normalcy?
The status quo is 100% perpetuated and defended by fucking morons with no grasp on the nuances of real world problem solving, also known as cops. It's scary to me that these are the types of people you want to see elected, I can definitely see you jumping on the Kamala Harris bandwagon a few months from now, lmao.
>It is, unless you're resorting to whataboutism
You haven't made a single point that wasn't grounded in your definition of whataboutism. If you don't understand the differences in severity, even when I lay out the statistics in plain language, it's very clear that you don't care about anything you claim to care about unless you can blame your political opponents for it.
>Again, I don't intend to convince you of anything.
Because you know you have no argument. I've laid out all of my positions and prepared myself for any amount of criticism and dismantling that you or anyone else had to offer, and you'd rather sarcastically strawman in order to appeal to the few worthless retard anons that already agree with you, and one very confused Toybox. This is the state of your position on the issue, you lost again, and I feel more confident than ever about what I've put forward.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313425

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>>313420 I'll bite.
>The status quo is 100% perpetuated and defended by fucking morons with no grasp on the nuances of real world problem solving, also known as cops.
You do realize that, generally speaking, cops exist to enforce laws, right? If you have a problem with what the cops are doing, your problem lies with laws and enforcement policies, not the fact that cops exist.
We can debate the viability of an anarchic society absent cops, but really, that ain't reality and is beside the point.
>It's scary to me that these are the types of people you want to see elected,
I'm not sure what gave you this impression, but I find it amusing.
>I can definitely see you jumping on the Kamala Harris bandwagon a few months from now, lmao.
I'm not sure I follow you here, either.
>You haven't made a single point that wasn't grounded in your definition of whataboutism.
I shouldn't need to. But I do, because people here don't listen to reason. The correct response to "political violence is bad" isn't "but they [someone else completely unrelated] did it worse!"
>If you don't understand the differences in severity, even when I lay out the statistics in plain language, it's very clear that you don't care about anything you claim to care about unless you can blame your political opponents for it.
Oh I do. But unlike you, I can say both sides are bad. My opponents are in fact on both sides. But only one side is vocal and incredibly annoying about it now that Mint has toned down, hence that is the side I argue against. One side has no argument. Your side for some reason thinks it does.
>Because you know you have no argument.
No, because you're a keyboard warrior who I frankly don't give a rats ass about.
>I've laid out all of my positions and prepared myself for any amount of criticism and dismantling that you or anyone else had to offer,
oh, those one-of remarks and hot takes? yeah, definitely worth my time.
>and you'd rather sarcastically strawman in order to appeal to the few worthless retard anons that already agree with you,
more for my own amusement, tbh.
>and one very confused Toybox.
I have no idea if she agrees with me, and I'm not addressing her.
>This is the state of your position on the issue, you lost again, and I feel more confident than ever about what I've put forward.
Ok, bye then.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 759dff)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313432

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>>313425
>If you have a problem with what the cops are doing, your problem lies with laws and enforcement policies, not the fact that cops exist.
When I say (((cops))), I'm talking about people like you. Status quo snitches with limp wrists that hide behind a screen and demand the state do something about your enemies before they even have the chance to act. Police officers exist in every society, but the problems that the American people face regarding law enforcement need to be addressed in a vacuum. Unfortunately, the majority of our country, including liberals, have no patience or tolerance for the idea that law enforcement needs to be reformed in order to combat their specific issues. These are the people who have no problem criticizing and generalizing specific instances of Sharia Law in other countries to their entire religion, which makes it very obvious that they don't see the violation of trust and conduct that cops commit in this country on an hourly basis as a bad thing. They're actually very blatantly interested in allowing cops to persecute their enemies, because that's what allows for the status quo to prosper, in which they are the primary beneficiaries.

>The correct response to "political violence is bad" isn't "but they [someone else completely unrelated] did it worse!"

If I said that police brutality is bad, and you responded by saying "but he had a gun and was going to shoot the cop" then that would be a perfectly valid response. Is that too much nuance for you to process? Is your interpretation of my position going to make you sperg out about how I want to kill people for disagreeing about something irrelevant and sarcastic? That's usually what you go for whenever I set you up to have a real argument.

>oh, those one-of remarks and hot takes? yeah, definitely worth my time.

You just lost to my surprisingly infallible remarks and takes really hard, but shit-talking little faggots like you don't really understand that you lost until you're on the ground.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313433

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>>313432
>When I say (((cops))), I'm talking about people like you.
hahahahaha
>Status quo snitches with limp wrists that hide behind a screen and demand the state do something about your enemies before they even have the chance to act.
you're hilarious. I'm sure in contrast you're out on the streets every day fighting the good fight, right? Sure you are.
>Police officers exist in every society, but the problems that the American people face regarding law enforcement need to be addressed in a vacuum.
hence why whataboutisms are pointless distractions.
>Unfortunately, the majority of our country, including liberals, have no patience or tolerance for the idea that law enforcement needs to be reformed in order to combat their specific issues.
I'm all for criminal justice reform.
>These are the people who have no problem criticizing and generalizing specific instances of Sharia Law in other countries to their entire religion, which makes it very obvious that they don't see the violation of trust and conduct that cops commit in this country on an hourly basis as a bad thing.
Is this like, your big issue?
>They're actually very blatantly interested in allowing cops to persecute their enemies, because that's what allows for the status quo to prosper, in which they are the primary beneficiaries.
uhhh... Some people are I guess? I don't know, does saying that a cop should be biased in favor of person B, if person A is assaulting them, mean that I want person A to be persecuted? Is it a human right to assault person B? What if I want the same "bias" in the other direction - is that still persecution? The position you imply doesn't seem consistent, just sayin'.

>If I said that police brutality is bad, and you responded by saying "but he had a gun and was going to shoot the cop" then that would be a perfectly valid response.

Sure. However, your response would be more like "but someone else who wasn't there had a gun" which makes no fucking sense. I hope you can recognize why it makes no sense. Think about it for 5 seconds. If you're having trouble, phone a friend.
>Is your interpretation of my position going to make you sperg out about how I want to kill people for disagreeing about something irrelevant and sarcastic?
I don't know, maybe you do, but violence against one person, on the basis of what someone else did, is a really bad look for you.
>That's usually what you go for whenever I set you up to have a real argument.
just being a couch psychoanalyst, trying to figure outt why you so desperately want to cause harm to people who haven't harmed you first.

>You just lost to my surprisingly infallible remarks and takes really hard, but shit-talking little faggots like you don't really understand that you lost until you're on the ground.

damn I got roasted. you're right. how will I ever show my face here again?

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 759dff)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313436

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>>313433
>what about you? what about acid? what about cement? what about people that get MASS MURDERED for saying "I love America"? what about all the Youtube videos of antifa doing things I don't like? what about YOU?
<what about the fascists that antifa are responding to?
>IRRELEVANT, GOD WHAT A DISHONEST ARGUMENT, WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THIS THREAD?
amazin'
>I'm all for criminal justice reform.
>The position you imply doesn't seem consistent, just sayin'.
So your definition of criminal justice reform is just that you think cops should do a better job of not arresting victims of assault, got it, you have no grasp on the issues surrounding the criminal justice system outside of "sometimes they arrest two people in a fight when one of them started it," it's like I'm talking to a 1st grader.
>However, your response would be more like "but someone else who wasn't there had a gun" which makes no fucking sense
>but violence against one person, on the basis of what someone else did, is a really bad look for you.
That's a bad faith argument, I don't expect you to quote me or substantiate any of this.
>trying to figure outt why you so desperately want to cause harm to people who haven't harmed you first.
Your definition of harm is as one-dimensional as "did they physically assault you? wait, do they have a badge? no?" I could literally spread a message to my enemies that the part of town that's going to get destroyed by a tsunami is the safe zone, and you'd defend me because I didn't push them there with my bare hands. How is anyone supposed to engage you in a discussion about what kind of action is morally justified when your definitions are so shallow and nonsensical?

How many times does it need to be explained to you that speech is a form of action that has consequences? If you're so afraid of the violent consequences of your free speech then take a vow of silence, you're lucky enough to live in your ideal world where you can take all the dishonest verbal action against your enemies as you want without facing any consequences. In any other society that didn't coddle mass liars and bad faith actors, you'd be crushed.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313438

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>>313436
>stuff
ok
>what about YOU?
What about me?
>what about the fascists that antifa are responding to?
Nothing you've said has convinced me that Antifa has anything at all to do with fascists.
Nothing they've done has convinced me that they even know what fascism is or why they oppose the people they oppose.
When they stop beating up people who aren't even involved in the groups they claim to be opposing, come back to me with a slightly less bullshit argument.

>So your definition of criminal justice reform is just that you think cops should do a better job of not arresting victims of assault, got it, you have no grasp on the issues surrounding the criminal justice system outside of "sometimes they arrest two people in a fight when one of them started it," it's like I'm talking to a 1st grader.

You're hilarious! You should do standup.

>That's a bad faith argument, I don't expect you to quote me or substantiate any of this.

You, very clearly, justify assaulting a person at a protest or event on the basis of the actions of someone else who is not at that protest or event, on nothing more than the presumption that they maybe possibly believe the same thing.

>Your definition of harm is as one-dimensional as "did they physically assault you? wait, do they have a badge? no?" I could literally spread a message to my enemies that the part of town that's going to get destroyed by a tsunami is the safe zone, and you'd defend me because I didn't push them there with my bare hands. How is anyone supposed to engage you in a discussion about what kind of action is morally justified when your definitions are so shallow and nonsensical?

I don't even know where you're getting this bullshit cop aspect from. Please, enlighten me.

>How many times does it need to be explained to you that speech is a form of action that has consequences?

Yes, it is an action, and actions have consequences. But all actions are not violence. Sorry to break it to you.
>If you're so afraid of the violent consequences of your free speech then take a vow of silence, you're lucky enough to live in your ideal world where you can take all the dishonest verbal action against your enemies as you want without facing any consequences.
So, saying something you don't like, is an action, and the consequence of that action, is that you get to freely assault me. Am I getting that right? Just making sure, because this is the position you're pushing for, with no self-awareness whatsoever that this runs in two directions.
>In any other society that didn't coddle mass liars and bad faith actors, you'd be crushed.
Oh man, you're something. How do you even exist in reality?

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 759dff)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313439

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>>313438
>Nothing you've said has convinced me that Antifa has anything at all to do with fascists.
Yeah, we've spent literally zero time discussing this topic because you'd rather talk about how all non-police violence is bad and all speech is harmless
>on nothing more than the presumption that they maybe possibly believe the same thing
No, I justify assaulting Andy Ngo because he belongs in a gutter with his brains splattered on the wall and his chinky eyes wide open in fear.

>I don't even know where you're getting this bullshit cop aspect from

I'll give you another chance to clarify your position, even though you've already made it clear, don't pass it up if you want a response. When is it okay for someone to assault another person?

>But all actions are not violence

Are there any actions that warrant violence other than violence?
>So, saying something you don't like, is an action, and the consequence of that action, is that you get to freely assault me.
This is pretty much what you've been repeating over and over again for the last two days instead of reading what I actually type, and my answer is no, it's more nuanced than that. Obviously.
>How do you even exist in reality?
Nobody has called the cops on me for the suspicion that my water bottle is actually full of acid, maybe I'm just lucky.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313441

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>>313439
>Yeah, we've spent literally zero time discussing this topic because you'd rather talk about how all non-police violence is bad and all speech is harmless
Neither of those are things that I've said. Pay attention, now.
>No, I justify assaulting Andy Ngo because he belongs in a gutter with his brains splattered on the wall and his chinky eyes wide open in fear.
Well, at least you're an honest psychopath.
>I'll give you another chance to clarify your position, even though you've already made it clear, don't pass it up if you want a response. When is it okay for someone to assault another person?
To defend life, liberty, or property. And no, that doesn't mean people who disagree with you on policy positions.
>Are there any actions that warrant violence other than violence?
This depends on how wishy-washy your definition of violence is, but I will say yes. A pre-emptive strike given overwhelming evidence of imminent attack, being a great example.
>This is pretty much what you've been repeating over and over again for the last two days instead of reading what I actually type, and my answer is no, it's more nuanced than that. Obviously.
Then please inform me, under what conditions, your majesty, I may deem to disagree with you, and not expect an entirely justified pummeling.
>Nobody has called the cops on me for the suspicion that my water bottle is actually full of acid, maybe I'm just lucky.
Unless you go around throwing water at people, I'd be really surprised if anyone had reason to call the cops on you for anything remotely similar.

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 759dff)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313442

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>>313441
>Neither of those are things that I've said
I said the contrary and you've spent quite a bit of time disagreeing with me instead of discussing Antifa. We can change the subject any time you want.
>A pre-emptive strike given overwhelming evidence of imminent attack, being a great example.
"Imminent attack" being limited to other forms of physical violence, or could I interpret imminent attack as an attack on my rights through legislation?
>Then please inform me, under what conditions, your majesty, I may deem to disagree with you, and not expect an entirely justified pummeling.
I responded to that here >>313012
>If I think that I have a right to life and someone disagrees with that, then by definition, yes. Everyone has the right to defend their life with lethal force.
If it should follow that speech has consequences (as does the support of turning speech into action through voting), I could justify the assault of anyone who disagrees that I have a right to live. So if you support politicians that want to take that right away from me or my loved ones, I have every right to defend myself.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313445

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>>313442
>I said the contrary and you've spent quite a bit of time disagreeing with me instead of discussing Antifa. We can change the subject any time you want.
Specifically, my position is that it's not your place to unilaterally decide what speech is harmful and then act upon it. Yelling fire in a crowded theater is the go-to example of harmful speech. Inciting a riot or imminent violence is another. Saying mean things you don't like doesn't automatically qualify, even if you really, really, really don't like it. And if you want to prove to me that you're right, you need to argue your position and show how it's better than theirs and demonstrate why they're wrong, instead of trying to smash their face in because you don't like them. Thus, if you're using violence in politics, the assumption is that you've lost the argument by default, otherwise you wouldn't need to resort to violence, would you?

This is doubly true because many of the 'fascists' who have been beaten up by Antifa have literally nothing to do with the groups they protest, like bystanders on the street who just happened to have a T-shirt they didn't like. You don't get to just assume what people think, and then beat them up for it. It's not that difficult to understand. You aren't the good guy just because you claim to be antifascist.
>"Imminent attack" being limited to other forms of physical violence, or could I interpret imminent attack as an attack on my rights through legislation?
Yes, specifically in regards to life, liberty, and property. But like I told Foxdude, the target matters. If you want to essentially become an insurgent wannabe freedom fighter, I can at least understand your rationale, whether or not I agree with it, even if I think it's not the best way to go about doing things. If, however, you choose to get your way through violence against the people themselves, well now you're just a piece of shit terrorist.
>>If I think that I have a right to life and someone disagrees with that, then by definition, yes. Everyone has the right to defend their life with lethal force.
>If it should follow that speech has consequences (as does the support of turning speech into action through voting), I could justify the assault of anyone who disagrees that I have a right to live. So if you support politicians that want to take that right away from me or my loved ones, I have every right to defend myself.
Your statement here is very convoluted.
First off, I have never heard someone put forth the notion that any citizen should be deprived of life, absent something like the death penalty for heinous crimes, so I literally have no idea what examples you could pull out of your ass for this, but I'm incredibly curious.
Second, even if you do find some fringe whackaloon who would like to see you dead, that doesn't mean that others agree with him. Specifically, you don't get to just pick people, claim they want to see you dead, and then assault them over it.
Third, even if they do want you dead, thought crime isn't a thing, so if they have taken no action and made no moves against you, you have no justification. The fact that someone doesn't like you doesn't mean you get to attack them.
Fourth, this is doubly true when you're just assuming they don't like you. You don't even fucking know. You're just assuming they want to see you dead, unless you've heard them personally say it.
Fifth, this entire notion is based on the idea that you can read their mind and know what they're thinking, and then attack them for it because you don't like it.
This sounds like some delusional bullshit.
This post was edited by its author on .

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 759dff)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313450

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>>313445
>Saying mean things you don't like doesn't automatically qualify
It's impossible to have a conversation with you about anything when you reduce everything to such idiotic talking points. I've explained my position every time you've tried to make it look like I'm saying something else, and I don't know if you're doing it for the people reading this conversation that might be fooled by your bad faith acting, or if this is somehow what you're actually getting from what I'm saying. I don't think I'm going to waste any more time trying to explain that my position is not as simple as you'd like it to be from your stance of opposition, you've demonstrated that you're not willing to engage in that sort of non-hyperbolic conversation because you're drunk or something.

>First off, I have never heard someone put forth the notion that any citizen should be deprived of life, absent something like the death penalty for heinous crimes, so I literally have no idea what examples you could pull out of your ass for this, but I'm incredibly curious.

Taking away someone's means of survival through legislative action is a form of political violence, it's not as simple as the government coming to your house and executing you. I don't think you're curious at all, because I've already explained this. The fact that you went on a huge rant based on such a retarded misconception about my position is really confusing to me when I've been very clear about what I'm talking about up to this point. If it sounds like delusional bullshit, it's because you're not responding to me, you're responding to your own thoughts.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313454

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>>313450
>It's impossible to have a conversation with you about anything when you reduce everything to such idiotic talking points.
You're literally talking about assaulting people over the way they presumably voted, based on your interpretation of the effects of that vote, are you not? For example, if someone votes against single payer healthcare, you can convolutedly justify that as "violence" against you and a "threat" to your "life" and therefore are perfectly justified in attacking and even killing them in self defense. Or someone could support a politician for another completely unrelated reason, but because that politician is against single payer healthcare, you are now justified in assaulting that voter. Please tell me where I'm mistaken. This is the logic that you have laid out.
>I've explained my position every time you've tried to make it look like I'm saying something else, and I don't know if you're doing it for the people reading this conversation that might be fooled by your bad faith acting, or if this is somehow what you're actually getting from what I'm saying.
I'll hand it to you, you laid out your positions in a way that sounds reasonable - until you look under the surface and see the implications of what you're saying. Never mind that anyone could use the same justifications right back at you. I keep pointing this out to you, but you keep ignoring it, so I guess it hasn't sunk in yet.
>I don't think I'm going to waste any more time trying to explain that my position is not as simple as you'd like it to be from your stance of opposition, you've demonstrated that you're not willing to engage in that sort of non-hyperbolic conversation because you're drunk or something.
I'm pointing out the logical inconsistencies in your positions, and you ignore them, presumably because they are inconvenient to you and would require you to change your positions once addressed.

>Taking away someone's means of survival through legislative action is a form of political violence, it's not as simple as the government coming to your house and executing you.

Like what, welfare? If I vote against your welfare, are you justified in attacking me? What if I think you should only get $150 of food stamps instead of $200? Is that political violence? Please, enlighten me.
>I don't think you're curious at all, because I've already explained this. The fact that you went on a huge rant based on such a retarded misconception about my position is really confusing to me when I've been very clear about what I'm talking about up to this point. If it sounds like delusional bullshit, it's because you're not responding to me, you're responding to your own thoughts.
I assumed you'd be pointing to welfare and the like, and how people are owed money for merely existing, but I figured I'd let you come out and say it. because if you think voting against welfare is violence, that's absurd. So please, tell me what kinds of votes are a threat to your life and justification for assaulting people merely for the way they've voted.

Fox (ID: 0b5063)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  313588

>>313413
Then what is leniency? This isn't a discussion about legality, once again.

>>313414
>Not giving people a seat at the table is not my flex, no.
The point you replied weird flex to was me saying that it's a good thing that tankies would lose out. You must have me confused with someone else, which isn't too difficult to imagine, given that you can just lump everyone who disagrees with you together as the Enemy of the People.

>This is your position regarding your socialist utopia, is it not?

No.

>I watched the video. very stylized. not much content. a couple of dubious accounts of things that may or may not have happened as stated. If a peaceful assembly turns into an effective riot, do you expect police to just leave them to riot? If so, on what grounds?

Whoa whoa whoa, the claim was that police were doing nothing. Why are you moving the goalposts?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 5ff6ac)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  313622

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>>313588
>The point you replied weird flex to was me saying that it's a good thing that tankies would lose out.
It is odd that you want the people you are arguing in favor of to lose out, yes. You don't exactly seem like the Voltaire type, just sayin'.

>No.

Interesting.

>Whoa whoa whoa, the claim was that police were doing nothing. Why are you moving the goalposts?

Oh, is that why you posted the video? I wasn't sure.
Yes, you are correct, the police do, in some cases, "protect the far-right rallies from antifascists".
More accurately, they defend "people at rallies from political violence", but since only one particular group is openly clamoring for violence, well... that would determine who they're defending, now, wouldn't it?
And that is, in some cases. And in other cases, they fall back, stand by, and let things play out while they twiddle their thumbs until shit hits the fan, and then finally move in to disperse the crowds.


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