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File: 1560288946990.jpg (23.11 KB, 636x424, portal.jpg)

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid:   297217[Last 50 Posts]

Have you accepted B into your life yet?

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297230

>>297217
Yes. Suppose the cube is 1 meter in length, width, and depth. Suppose the portal is approaching the cube at a speed of 100 meters per second. Then it takes 10 ms for the cube to completely go through the portal. Consider the front of the cube, i.e., the part that goes thru the portal first. In the first millisecond, 10 cm of the cube has passed through the portal. In the next millisecond, this 10 cm of cube has been pushed 10 cm past the portal exit by the next 10 cm of cube. So it is traveling at 100 m/s relative to the exit portal.

Ika (ID: a7f8a4)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297232

File: 1560290046707.png (230.27 KB, 370x390, Screenshot_234.png)

It's A, but I wouldn't expect tiny brained B people to understand it.

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297238

File: 1560290452999.jpg (61.53 KB, 431x582, 63129164.jpg)

>>297232
That's not an argument

Trixishy!.TrixiSHY. (ID: 527e3f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297251

File: 1560291723604.gif (252.96 KB, 104x125, 1388868121723.gif)

A

Cato (ID: edef62)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297252

File: 1560291752563.gif (508.12 KB, 500x414, 00blinkblink.gif)

>>297230
This is correct. Everything about momentum is relative, so if a portal slammed down on you, you would be moving out of the other end at the same relative momentum as the moving portal was to you.

vynn (ID: bf20cb)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297265

File: 1560293084901.png (2.31 MB, 1069x1500, 1bed7884-ecd9-4683-bf33-681ee5…)

>>297230
So if you were standing still in a field and a doorframe slammed down from overhead at 100 m/s, then you'd fly into the air at 100 m/s because you were going that fast relative to the doorframe?

Cato (ID: edef62)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297269

File: 1560293227232.jpg (598.19 KB, 1920x1080, 1352676756013.jpg)

>>297265
But it is not a doorframe, it conserves relative momentum.

vynn (ID: bf20cb)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297273

File: 1560293309768.png (283.76 KB, 817x1003, 60b4af53-f057-4989-bb4b-0126eb…)

>>297269
Doorframes dont conserve relative momentum? You learn something new every day.

Cato (ID: edef62)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297288

File: 1560294416205.jpg (185.69 KB, 693x792, 9af6338eb8a85f13299247f29c252e…)

>>297273
If the door is moving, as you go through it, you are still moving at the same rate away from the other side. Imagine a doorframe coming straight at you at 10 m/s. Once it gets past you, the other side of the door is moving away from you at 10 m/s. You have to be moving away from the rear of the door as fast as the front of the door was toward you.

vynn (ID: 9a4be6)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297295

>>297288
I'm moving 10 m/s relative to the door but 0 m/s relative to Earth. Why does the door moving trump my relation to Earth?

Anonymous (ID: 1164bb)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297297

The portal can be treated as a fixed plane between two adjacent spaces. Momentum is not the only thing conserved, but also matter. The amount of matter crossing the plane of the portal is related to the flux: cross section and velocity. So for simplicity the cube is one square meter crossing at one meter per second and a density of 1. So over one second one mass of cube has crossed the plane.

Now we can separate the two portals and allow one to move. It passes over a stationary 1 meter cube at 1 meter per second so one kilogram of cube crosses in one second. If the plane is moving at 10 meters per second and in A the cube emerges at one kilogram a second, as ten kilograms a second cross the other portal. Matter is not conserved in this scenario as after o.1 seconds there are o kg of cube on one side and o.1 kg of cube on the other, where initially the system had weighed 1 kg and in o.9 s will also weigh 1 kg. Now that the system has stopped moving it weighs 0.1kg and will gradually weigh more over the next second despite being completed.

The conclusion is that moving a portal takes work.

Anonymous (ID: a2373d)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297299

>>297297
I so wanna kiss you

Chewy!MUSIC.FbVY (ID: 67df75)Country code: bug.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297300

File: 1560295625283.png (1.34 MB, 1179x637, AH SHIT, HERE WE GO AGAIN.png)

Cato (ID: edef62)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297304

File: 1560295965375.jpg (196.5 KB, 600x627, 7666c870338aa86d9e5c733156bc76…)

>>297295
Because if I am falling 10 m/s toward the door and the other side is facing up, I am flying up at 10 m/s, a different velocity relative to the earth.

the velocity relative to the earth only matters if the earth is what is doing the pushing. which it kinda is, but consider this problem if we were floating in space.

a lost pony !piNKiEPie. (ID: d27cad)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297323

>>297217
>portals

Fiction anyway so pick one for your story's universe and move on already.

vynn (ID: 2ba26f)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297325

File: 1560299276219.png (221.46 KB, 960x960, a11e08b3-91d6-4ecc-a56a-f1833b…)

>>297304
If it's in space then yes that would make sense. It would totally be B in space.

But I was considering the context of the block being sitting on a pedestal on Earth!

Cato (ID: edef62)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297332

File: 1560299845163.gif (508.12 KB, 500x414, 00blinkblink.gif)

>>297325
You are in space when on earth, tho

Anonymous (ID: d69e6b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297397

>>297265
the doorframe is accelerating in that situation (when it slams), so the doorframe isn't an inertial reference frame.

Iara!KeepOnL7Jg (ID: 14079c)Country code: pe, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297430

File: 1560312955531.gif (82.77 KB, 500x439, thats a no from me.gif)

Autism bad.

Mk17!!Trixie (ID: df10f7)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297431

File: 1560313143310.gif (1.52 MB, 500x600, 359186__safe_artist-colon-faux…)

>>297232
>>297238
You dont need an argument for facts.

>>297251
Why is it so fast!?
This post was edited by its author on .

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 506c54)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297432

File: 1560313277207.png (30.54 KB, 123x123, e4112da26bc6a6393b3d6099ce4e38…)

>>297273
Why do we even care about portals, someone invented the doorframe a million years ago!

Mk17!!Trixie (ID: df10f7)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297433

File: 1560313362990.png (250.25 KB, 435x460, mtr_1556259494326.png)

>>297432
That was the alpha build.

(ID: a9bacb)Country code: tr, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297491

File: 1560319100878.jpg (436.87 KB, 1000x1203, 039.jpg)

I think it's A.

(ID: a9bacb)Country code: tr, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297493

File: 1560319175395.png (74.52 KB, 512x512, 021.png)

>>297491
Wait, B...
Shit you mess with the conservation of energy no matter which option you choose. Damn it.
Now I can't even choose an option.

Ika (ID: a7f8a4)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297497

File: 1560319643219.png (191.19 KB, 380x451, Screenshot_34.png)

>>297493
All the energy with go down the pillar, at most the cube will do a short bounce.

(ID: a9bacb)Country code: tr, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297498

File: 1560319803201.jpg (171.17 KB, 679x764, 056.jpg)

>>297497
That is what I thought at first, but considering the speed of the piston is X m/s, and that the cube is going through the portal, every single atom of it is going through the portal at X m/s. Why would all that gathered velocity suddenly come to a stop when the cube is done passing through?

Ika (ID: a7f8a4)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297499

File: 1560319848289.png (393.75 KB, 500x625, Screenshot_110.png)

>>297498
Why would it transfer to a cube that was static the whole time?

(ID: a9bacb)Country code: tr, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297500

File: 1560319926015.jpg (204.5 KB, 768x960, 057.jpg)

>>297499
Because from the relative standpoint of the exit point, the cube was never static. That is the inherent conundrum.

Option B has its own issue too, though.

Ika (ID: a7f8a4)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297501

File: 1560320026270.png (460.88 KB, 644x715, Screenshot_109.png)

>>297500
Imagine you have a solid steel cube on a table and a sheet of paper with a hole in it.
You slam the paper down on top of the cube, would that launch the cube?

(ID: a9bacb)Country code: tr, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297503

File: 1560320413510.jpg (77.38 KB, 357x400, 024.jpg)

>>297501
No, but that is the perspective of the entry point.
The perspective of the exit point is that a solid steel cube is being pushed through the hole until it's fully passed through.

(ID: a9bacb)Country code: tr, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297504

File: 1560320523617.jpg (260.84 KB, 707x1000, 060.jpg)

Oh yeah, I guess the videogame was never consistent about conservation of energy and its direction or anything either. I mean you'd jump into a portal vertically and get launched horizontally and such.

I guess by that logic I choose B.

Ika (ID: a7f8a4)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297506

File: 1560320690326.png (422.45 KB, 579x699, Screenshot_96.png)

>>297504
You can't have moving portals in the game, I guess they knew it'd cause trouble.

(ID: a9bacb)Country code: tr, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297508

File: 1560320792585.jpg (204.5 KB, 768x960, 057.jpg)

>>297506
Yeah some user made levels had them, but they would just crush you like a regular wall.
Almost as if a mass with zero velocity cannot pass through and we need an option C...

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297630

>>297504
energy doesn't have a direction

vynn (ID: 540f68)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297636

>>297504
Momentum and currently velocity is carried over, it's just not direction that is.

Dashy !SUNBUtt9Io (ID: 0adc0e)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297684

File: 1560366188788.jpg (295.22 KB, 850x1257, __kay_girls_und_panzer__sample…)

portals cannot be placed on moving surfaces

Shiny Puppy (Element of Fleas) (ID: 6a69c9)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297688

File: 1560366731910.png (148.95 KB, 500x276, 131957796341.png)

It's A.
It'll make one hell of a noise when the two metal surfaces collide, but there is no energy transfer (less air resistance) to the cube. Even operating on the assumption that energy would transfer, the cube would already be moved, even if only leaving microns to spare.
This post was edited by its author on .

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297758

File: 1560370355462.gif (394.86 KB, 380x380, 576660.gif)

>>297217 yes, obviously.
relative velocity = cube exits portal at speed = cube goes flying.
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297816

File: 1560373771760.gif (1019.84 KB, 480x271, tumblr_mvw3p2wz2i1sq9yswo1_500…)

>>297758
You're not thinking with portals. The cube actually has zero velocity because it's not technically exiting the portal. The universe is coming down around a stationary cube.

a lost pony !piNKiEPie. (ID: d27cad)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297826

>>297816
Yes, yes the universe is coming down all around.

*checks a box

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297832

File: 1560374557384.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297816 meaning there's a relative velocity, which is conserved as momentum when it exits the portal with a given speed, and so the stationary cube is no longer stationary and maintains its trajectory

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297836

File: 1560374651132.jpg (66.46 KB, 781x444, 44b4659525ec.jpg)

>>297832
That isn't how physics works. Acceleration requires energy. There is nothing imparting any sort of energy into the cube. For the cube to be launched it would have to basically generate energy from nothing, which violates the primary law of conservation of energy.
This post was edited by its author on .

a lost pony !piNKiEPie. (ID: d27cad)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297844

File: 1560374982587.png (278.68 KB, 771x614, wxw3b72f0mmz.png)

>>297836
Maybe the cube is on meth.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297845

File: 1560375001809.gif (547.74 KB, 576x324, 575943.gif)

>>297836
>Velocity requires energy.
no it doesn't. you're thinking of acceleration, which is change in velocity over time.
momentum is mass*velocity, which absent any force acting upon it, is conserved.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297847

File: 1560375089945.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>297845
I changed it. Point being in order for the cube to launch it needs to be accelerated from the platform, however there is absolutely zero transfer of energy to the cube as it passes the boundary of the portal, meaning acceleration is physically impossible. The only force acting on the cube once it passes the threshold of the portal is gravity, which would cause it to just slide off as shown in A.
This post was edited by its author on .

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297850

File: 1560375193856.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297847 no it doesn't. It is "moving" with the relative velocity of the shortening distance between the cube and platform. In effect the velocity of the portal is transferred to the cube as it passes through because the reference frame shifts from one that is moving to one that isn't, but the relative velocity itself is maintained.

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297853

File: 1560375243996.jpg (61.88 KB, 720x960, 58882992_10156143500675108_322…)

It's A. The cube is not moving, the portal is moving and the portal cannot impart momentum onto the cube.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297855

File: 1560375280176.gif (1008.29 KB, 480x271, tumblr_n0rwyjTJtg1sq9yswo2_500…)

>>297850
>It is "moving" with the relative velocity of the shortening distance between the cube and platform.

It's not actually moving. The portal is moving. So that means the only thing with energy is the platform that is moving towards the portal, however there is no way for that energy to be imparted onto the cube.

You're not thinking 4th dimensionally.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297856

File: 1560375314665.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297855 doesn't matter which is moving. what matters is the relative velocity.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297859

File: 1560375456077.jpg (145.55 KB, 1280x720, Haiyore Nyaruko-san W - 09 - L…)

>>297856
It absolutely does matter which is moving. Because energy does not give a fuck about relative velocity.

If you want to test this at home you can. Take a large key ring. Pretend one side of the key ring is the blue portal and the other side is the orange one. Lay a die on a table and slam the keyring over it. According to you, the die should launch into the air because it has relative velocity compared to the upper side of the key ring.

As you can see, the notion is absolutely absurd.

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297861

>>297836
Yes, moving portals breaks conservation of energy.

a lost pony !piNKiEPie. (ID: d27cad)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297863

>>297859
>arguing portals
>which very concept requires balancing conflicting axiomatic rules none of which have been understood well enough to apply to n dimentional physics but at least one must be suspended to not invalidate extra-dimentional theories

>argues symbolic absurdity as invalidation argument

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297867

File: 1560375867250.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297859 Have you ever looked at a simple example of general relativity? Flashlights on a train? Forget the light speed considerations; just consider frame of reference. This is what you're missing. There's is no absolute "one is moving and one isn't". They move relative to each other.

If an object exits a portal with a given speed, as imparted by [any reason here], it will maintain that speed through momentum. It doesn't matter if the cube shoots into the portal, or if the portal is moving. What matters is that the cube exits with a velocity, and has a mass, meaning it has momentum, which is conserved.

Your keyring example fails for one reason: both sides of the keyring are in the same reference field. In the portal example, they are not. In fact, your keyring example shows why B is correct, because the Cube passes in one side of the keyring at the same speed it passes out the other, but since both "portals" are in the same reference, there is no change in the relative position of the cube.

When you change the reference, now the difference manifests as a cube shooting off into space.

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297870

File: 1560375941796.jpg (60.17 KB, 1174x678, 1555260703106.jpg)

>>297856

>what matters is the relative velocity.


Well there isn't any. It is established in Portal that portals do not alter the velocity of thing that pass through them in any way.

Let's Play: Portal, Beginning to End

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297872

File: 1560375994269.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297870 meaning the relative velocity is unchanged

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297877

File: 1560376077561.jpg (24.88 KB, 578x605, 29683756_357051774779884_11392…)

>>297872

Yes, an immobile cube goes in, an immobile cube comes out.

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297882

Now that a sufficient amount of A-ers have been baited I can blow you out of the fucking water.
Science vs Philosophy ft. Physicist Sean M. Carroll

>>297836
>There is nothing imparting any sort of energy into the cube.
how do you know?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297883

File: 1560376177982.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297877 That literally makes no sense. An "immobile" cube cannot go in, because then it wouldn't be immobile. It can only "go in" if there is a relative velocity.

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297889

File: 1560376330827.jpg (39.27 KB, 500x290, 1552772815617.jpg)

>>297883

The portal is moving, the cube is not. In order for B to be be correct the portal would have to impart velocity onto the cube and it cannot.
This post was edited by its author on .

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297893

File: 1560376412208.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297889 It imparts velocity when it passes from a moving frame of reference to one that is "stationary".

A better way to think of it isn't that it imparts velocity but that the relative velocity is conserved.
This post was edited by its author on .

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297897

File: 1560376564798.png (406.62 KB, 750x750, 77210dec74efbe281c6be90239a2cd…)

>>297893

Sure, just like here where Weird Al gets launched into the stratosphere by the barn wall:
"Weird" Al Yankovic - Amish Paradise (Parody of "Gangsta's Paradise")

Oh wait, no. That's totally not how that works.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297899

File: 1560376609418.jpg (52.31 KB, 640x360, nyaruko_w_01_1.jpg)

>>297882
The guy he's talking to is a fucking idiot. Of course they will see the box rushing towards them. That doesn't fucking mean anything.

If you're on a moving platform and it's pushing you towards a stationary box it will give you the same exact effect but that doesn't mean the box is fucking moving. Holy shit. This guy is a fucking hack.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297901

File: 1560376692514.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297897 This would be the case of both portals moving in the same direction with the same velocity, as are both sides of the barn structure.

The shifting reference frame is important. You can't conflate a situation where there's no shift in reference with one where there is. Or, I mean, I guess you can, it just makes you wrong.

Anonymous (ID: 563e74)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297907

Reminder
>>297297

a lost pony !piNKiEPie. (ID: d27cad)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297908

>>297897
>brightens up the thread

I like the part he shot backwards.

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297909

File: 1560376976125.jpg (30.59 KB, 480x480, image.jpeg)

>>297901

That's literally how portals work though. They reduce the distance between two points to zero and do not alter the velocity of things that pass through them. When the cube comes out the blue portal it has not actually moved at all.

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297910

>>297899
>but that doesn't mean the box is fucking moving
It does, relative to you. Just like the box is moving relative to the portal.

I tried explaning these things with actual graphs and shit to you last time, and now I tried to appeal to a person who is way too overqualified for this shit, and you still don't believe. You are actually impossible to reason with.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297911

File: 1560377020835.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>297901
Frame of reference means absolutely nothing in physics. It's only important in the observation of physics.

I.E. the universe does not revolve around your eyeballs. Get over yourself.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297913

File: 1560377090627.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297909 I'll draw an example for you that will demonstrate exactly why you're wrong.
>>297911 literally nonsensical. read a book.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297914

File: 1560377099026.jpg (145.55 KB, 1280x720, Haiyore Nyaruko-san W - 09 - L…)

>>297910
>It does, relative to you.

Actually I am moving towards the box, relative to the box. Again, relativity does not fucking matter because perspective is essentially opinion.

Anonymous (ID: 563e74)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297916

>>297909
>>297911
The box moving quickly through one portal and slowly through the other violates conservation of mass which is more dire than violating high school ideal conceptual diagrams.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297917

File: 1560377227579.jpg (51.25 KB, 1024x576, Haiyore-Nyaruko-san_zpsaf18c0e…)

>>297913
What you're saying is nonsensical. It is literally Flat Earth tier. "It looks like it's moving to me, so it must be moving." that isn't how physics works by any stretch of the imagination. The universe does not give a single fuck what something appears to be to you.

To think your "frame of reference" has any impact on how energy works is complete and utter madness.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297918

File: 1560377268082.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>297916
Box isn't moving at all until gravity pulls it down.

You seem to keep forgetting that part.

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297919

>>297914
>Actually I am moving towards the box, relative to the box.
That is true and non-contradictory.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297921

File: 1560377301708.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297917 How many calc-based physics classes specializing in relativity have you taken, exactly? that's what I thought.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297923

File: 1560377335223.jpg (180.57 KB, 1920x1080, 20130408230540_original.jpg)

>>297921
If this is what they taught you I would demand a refund.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297924

File: 1560377410567.jpg (35.55 KB, 640x360, 2012041020470460f.jpg)

>>297919
Yes and also completely irrelevant.

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297925

File: 1560377418980.jpg (82.99 KB, 880x588, 1554709190542.jpg)

>>297913

Except I'm not though. Portals have to reduce the distance to zero and cannot alter velocity, otherwise they wouldn't work and anyone who passed through one would come out the other side would be reduced to something the consistency of marinara sauce.
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297926

File: 1560377492341.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297923 you're too ignorant to converse with
>>297925 that's exactly why the relative velocity is maintained

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297930

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>>297926
Says the person that thinks their eyeballs dictate how the universe works.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297931

File: 1560377619298.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297930 you literally can't comprehend relativity
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a lost pony !piNKiEPie. (ID: d27cad)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297932

My portals better than all yourses portals.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297933

File: 1560377710684.jpg (49.39 KB, 757x426, Nyaruko-Chapter-Extra-01.jpg)

>>297931
You literally can't comprehend that relativity has absolutely no bearing on how energy works.

I know how relativity works, probably more than you do, and I know it's not applicable in this situation because there is no dominant frame of reference.

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297935

File: 1560377786976.png (595.83 KB, 816x459, 1552880132365.png)

>>297926

Yeah, and there isn't any. Because the portal, as one of it's prime functions cannot impart any.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297937

File: 1560377885988.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297933 are you... are you serious... you can't be serious. no one is this stupid.
>>297935 when you jump in, with a relative velocity, you come out the other side, with the same relative velocity. If you move into it via any other means, which is necessarily due to a relative velocity, you still come out with the same relative velocity you went in with.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297939

File: 1560377955869.jpg (180.57 KB, 1920x1080, 20130408230540_original.jpg)

>>297937
The box is LITERALLY NOT MOVING IN ANY CAPACITY.

You have the objective reasoning of a five year old.

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297941

>>297924
It was your point. You're literally arguing for a universally constant frame of reference.

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297942

File: 1560378110130.jpg (135.62 KB, 1000x862, 1556342910676.jpg)

>>297937

Yeah, but the cube isn't stepping into the portal, the portal is being pushed down onto it. The cube is not moving and the portal cannot move it. So the velocity demonstrated in B comes out of literally nowhere.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297943

File: 1560378120898.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297939 Relative to the portal, it is. I don't know how you put your clothes on in the morning with your reasoning faculties.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297944

File: 1560378135543.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297942 Irrelevant

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297945

File: 1560378328959.png (83.12 KB, 500x455, tumblr_pkqeztsA401rlergfo1_500…)

>>297944

In other words, you've run out of argument. So say the portal doesn't stop at the cube but goes down over the pedestal as well, does the pedestal also somehow get launched out the blue portal?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297946

File: 1560378370205.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297945 I'm drawing

-Z- (ID: 081dc4)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297947

File: 1560378395947.png (152.46 KB, 450x454, 34.png)

I think the most confusing thing about the picture is that when portals are around, there's no such thing as a global inertial reference frame. This makes arguments that rely on conservation of momentum and conservation of energy really easy to get tripped up by.

To explain: let's say you want to argue (A) based on conservation of momentum. To make that kind of argument you first choose "inertial" coordinates on space-time and then argue that the momentum of the block before and after it passes through the portal, in those coordinates, is equal. I think the intuitive thing is to use the coordinates "as shown in the picture"; these coordinates, in particular, are discontinuous at the portal, where as you pass through the plane of the portal there is a sudden rotation, translation, and velocity shift in your coordinates.

Alternatively, someone else might come along and choose coordinates that go smoothly through the portal, but are discontinuous somewhere between the left and right sides of the picture. To be specific, choose coordinates on the left side of the picture such that the orange portal is not moving with respect to us, and on the right side choose coordinates "as shown" (i.e., such that the blue portal is also not moving). There's no reason to believe these coordinates are any "fundamentally" worse than the ones that are discontinuous at the portal, but everyone agrees that in these coordinates the block does something like (B) (since on the left side we're seeing it fly into the orange portal).

How does one distinguish between these two cases? The fundamental difference between these coordinate systems is that in the latter case, the block does not pass through the region of space-time where our inertial coordinates are discontinuous, so classical conservation of momentum should hold. In the former case, there's no reason to expect that conservation of momentum should hold, since we haven't made a choice of coordinate system encompassing everything interesting about the system that looks anything like classical Newtonian physics.

TL:DR - (B)

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297949

File: 1560378585897.png (2.6 KB, 136x374, portal_cube2.png)

>>297942
Maybe you will be swayed by drawings of the situation where it's partly through.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297951

File: 1560378718372.png (252.64 KB, 725x408, blog (1).png)

>>297943
>Relative to the portal, it is.

No it isn't. The portal is moving to the box. Relativity does not dictate energy. This is basic physics.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297952

File: 1560378737652.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297945 see >>297949, which is basically what I was drawing but nicer looking. The cube must exit the stationary portal at the same rate as it is "going in" to the other side, otherwise it becomes marinara as you said. This means it emerges with a velocity relative to the stationary portal. velocity imparts momentum. hence, off it goes.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297953

File: 1560378746031.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>297949
This is wrong. That is not how this works. There is no way for velocity to be established on the cube because there is zero energy applying any acceleration to the cube.
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297954

File: 1560378785408.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297953 because you say so

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297955

>>297953
Again, how do you know?

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297957

File: 1560378864778.png (3.76 MB, 1920x1080, 1376035832_4368271095.png)

>>297954
No. Because that's how physics fucking works.

Anonymous (ID: 563e74)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297958

>>297918
A force is being applied. That makes the box move

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297959

File: 1560378885731.png (843.21 KB, 1032x1153, 1554664158296.png)

>>297949

All I want to know is where the velocity demonstrated in B is coming from because it's not coming from the portal. Therefor it would have to come from some other undemonstrative force.

>>297952
>velocity imparts momentum.

But again, the cube has no velocity, the portal has the velocity and it cannot impart that velocity onto the cube.

Anonymous (ID: 563e74)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297960

>>297959
>it cannot impart that velocity onto the cube.

Why not?

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297962

File: 1560378996857.jpg (155.81 KB, 1600x900, NyarukoW_04.jpg)

>>297955
Because look at what you drew. The box is not moving in any capacity. There is LITERALLY ZERO reason for it to arbitrarily gain velocity simply because a ring passed over it.

If it did you could literally fire stationary boxes off of platforms just by making a moving ring that passes around it. That doesn't happen because the movement of the ring does NOT impart ANY energy into the cube simply by passing around it.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297963

File: 1560379021846.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297955 she doesn't understand frame of reference.
>>297957 Did you know the earth spins at ~1000 miles per hour at the equator? Did you know that we're simultaneously moving 1.3 million miles per hour around the Milky Way? And yet you feel like you aren't moving right now. Wow, amazing. Frames of reference.
>>297959 velocity is not an absolute thing. hence, relative.
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(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297964

File: 1560379121482.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>297963
I'm aware which is why we aren't taking that into consideration because if we were then any passage through a portal would probably splat you against a wall the second you passed through it simply because of the change in direction.

We're not taking that into consideration here because the game this comes from doesn't either.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297965

File: 1560379179648.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297964 It wouldn't, but I'm not surprised you don't understand why.

Anonymous (ID: 563e74)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297966

A cube is not a point mass.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297967

File: 1560379262458.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297966 I think it's a lost cause

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297969

File: 1560379302780.png (234.09 KB, 600x337, featured1.png)

>>297965
Um. Yes. It would. If you're moving in one direction at 1.3 million miles per hour and come out at ANY angle that wasn't parallel with the direction you entered from you would still maintain that velocity in that direction regardless of your new orientation and probably end up dead.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297970

File: 1560379388205.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297969 Not if both portals are moving with the same relative velocity, as they are when they're on the same planet. Frames of reference.

Anonymous (ID: 563e74)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297971

>>297967
They do seem intent on ignoring the conservation of mass question and clinging to the same vector diagram based argument.

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297972

>>297962
What counts as a reason? That a portal wouldn't work while moving at all if you didn't let it transfer energy?
>because a ring passed over it
>If it did you could literally fire stationary boxes off of platforms just by making a moving ring that passes around it.
It's not a ring, it's a portal.
>That doesn't happen because the movement of the ring does NOT impart ANY energy into the cube simply by passing around it.
Why not? How do you know?

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297974

File: 1560379480132.jpg (98.12 KB, 1280x720, nyaruko.jpg)

>>297970
If one is pointing vertically and one is pointing horizontally and you enter the one facing horizontally it will not magically change the momentum you have to vertical. You will still maintain that horizontal momentum and as soon as you exited the portal you would go flying sideways at 1.3 million miles per hour.

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297975

File: 1560379483496.jpg (149.13 KB, 853x1280, 1553798689674.jpg)

>>297960

Because if it did anyone who passed through such a portal would be reduced to paste by the nigh-instantaneous acceleration. Furthermore it is canon that they don't.

>>297963

Yeah, and there still isn't any. Is why I asked what would happen if the pedestal got swallowed too, in your model the portion that passed through the orange portal would be launched out through the blue portal and whatever remained would have been quite cleanly severed. Which wouldn't make for a very effective portal. Whereas in the A model it would simply rise up out of the blue portal at the same rate that the orange portal descended.
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297976

File: 1560379631279.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297971 The example works better in "space" where gravity is absent for all intents and purposes, and forces can be examined in isolation.
>>297974 You don't enter the portal at 1.3 million miles per hour because the portal is ALSO moving 1.3 million miles per hour. And you exit with whatever relative velocity you went in with. This is why you completely fail to understand the solution.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297977

File: 1560379634995.gif (1019.84 KB, 480x271, tumblr_mvw3p2wz2i1sq9yswo1_500…)

>>297972
>It's not a ring, it's a portal.
A portal is literally just a ring in which both sides are in vastly different locations, but mechanically speaking it is LITERALLY just a hole. Whether the different sides of the hole are directly next to each other or a million miles apart is completely irrelevant. It is mechanically no different than a standard doorframe.
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Anonymous (ID: 563e74)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297979

>>297976
I think it works better when you ignore forces altogether and consider that if a stationary cube remains stationary after being passed over by a moving portal then it would simply stop existing since it would have to be moving to exit a stationary portal.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297980

File: 1560379824195.jpg (85.88 KB, 1280x720, Haiyore-Nyaruko-san-W-10.jpg)

>>297976
The portal you ENTERED is moving at 1.3 million miles per hour in the same orientation as you. The portal you exit on is moving at 1.3 million miles per hour in a completely different direction.


Here:

(You) --> | ___ -->(You)

Does that make sense?

Anonymous (ID: 563e74)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297981

>>297980
How quickly do you exit a stationary portal if you are also stationary?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297982

File: 1560380032156.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297975 It would gain momentum as it passed through. And whatever portion didn't pass through would be acted upon by it, to whatever extent the forces were able to act upon it. like someone pulling harder and harder. with whatever result that would give. In the end, I assume it wouldn't break off, and you'd have the same result in either A or B, just with B having a pulling force that is countered by the weight of the portion that doesn't pass through. But it depends on the mass of the pedestal, whether it's secured to the ground, etc.
>>297979 That too.
>>297980 They aren't moving completely different directions, unless they are in different places within the Milky Way. And even if they were, portal logic says it shouldn't matter, because you will exit with the same relative velocity in the plane of the exit portal, as you went into the entry portal, regardless of anything else.
If this weren't the case, then you could never have portals on opposite walls for example.
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297983

File: 1560380082074.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>297981
You don't.

You don't exit at all. The universe drops around you.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297985

File: 1560380166336.gif (1008.29 KB, 480x271, tumblr_n0rwyjTJtg1sq9yswo2_500…)

>>297982
>If this weren't the case, then you could never have portals on opposite walls for example.

You technically couldn't. The game ignores this because it would invalidate the entire concept.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297986

File: 1560380222659.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297985 This sounds like special pleading.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297987

File: 1560380301741.jpg (180.57 KB, 1920x1080, 20130408230540_original.jpg)

>>297986
No. It's because the game engine does not simulate the relative movement of the environment on a larger scale. The ONLY reason portals work in the game is because the "universe" the game runs in is completely stationary.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297989

File: 1560380413773.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297987 It wouldn't matter either way because the frame of reference is all that matters.

Anonymous (ID: 3a1afd)Country code: templeos.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297991

File: 1560380427961.jpg (87.01 KB, 800x1000, gator_lady_by_cookieskoon_dah8…)

>>297987
There is no universe, only the outward appearance of several components that seem to insinuate an interconnectivity between themselves, but those of which are never explicitly indicated to the degree that these components themselves are.


Bepis.
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(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297995

File: 1560380542498.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>297989
>>297991
If you actually simulated the movement of the earth through the solar system in the engine and tried to use a portal with any sort of non-linear orientation, shit would hit the fan the second you passed the threshold.

You would most likely be instantly either turned into spaghetti or detonate in a nuclear explosion as your atoms collide with each other at a speed of 1.3 million mph.
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Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297996

>>297985
Wait wait wait, to you it's more rational that your system wouldn't actually work in game.
But a system that allows it in game is invalid because the portal transfers energy?

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297997

File: 1560380616065.png (234.09 KB, 600x337, featured1.png)

>>297996
The system in the game only works because the game universe is stationary.

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  297998

File: 1560380695400.jpg (662.33 KB, 1010x2115, 8-machine.jpg)

>>297982
>It would gain momentum as it passed through.

From where?

>And whatever portion didn't pass through would be acted upon by it, to whatever extent the forces were able to act upon it.


Then anyone who passed through such a portal would be reduced to paste by the nigh-instantaneous acceleration.

Whoops, only posted part of the image I meant to, here's the whole thing:
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  297999

>>297911
>Frame of reference means absolutely nothing in physics
The laws of physics are invariant in inertial frames of reference.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298001

File: 1560380864519.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>297995 Again, it depends on frame of reference. But there's no point in continuing this conversation because you don't seem to understand that, and I'm losing my patience.
>>297998
>From where?
by the fact that it has velocity relative to the frame of reference.
>Then anyone who passed through such a portal would be reduced to paste by the nigh-instantaneous acceleration.
Only if they were prevented from going all the way through, and the portal were moving at sufficient speed. More accurately, it would feel like someone pulling you through, more strongly pulling on the parts that hadn't already passed through, the more of you passed through.
This post was edited by its author on .

Ika (ID: a7f8a4)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298002

File: 1560380893072.png (298.31 KB, 400x635, Screenshot_73.png)

>>297995
...the game didn't keep in mind earth rotation and movement.
Technically even with their rules the portals shouldn't work in their universe either.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298004

File: 1560380949898.jpg (145.55 KB, 1280x720, Haiyore Nyaruko-san W - 09 - L…)

>>297999
Generally speaking but not in the case of portals. Because in general everything has the exact same frame of reference, the only difference is perspective.

In the case of portals you are essentially folding two points in space in which the frame of reference is technically the same but at a different orientation, which means that you will be compounding any forces acting on a body from both frames of reference simultaneously. The only way for this to not completely shred any matter passing through it is to nullify any outside influence from each respective orientation.
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Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298005

>>297939
All motion is relative. There is no such thing as absolute motion. It does make any sense to say an object has a particular kinetic energy except w.r.t. a particular inertial reference frame.

Snowbell (ID: a6f827)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298006

File: 1560381251532.jpg (91.84 KB, 811x675, eb4deb3237d7feb7a06a744a3b064f…)

>>298001

>by the fact that it has velocity relative to the frame of reference.

Except it still doesn't, the orange portal has velocity but it can't impart that velocity unto the cube.

>Only if they were prevented from going all the way through


Yeah, that's how Portal's portals work. You pass through it gradually rather than being instantly broken-down and then reconstituted somewhere else. The effect would be quite identical to being tossed into a blender. Whatever part of you hit the blades first would be paste-ified. Of course if you only stuck a hand or a foot in then only that would be pasted.
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(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298008

File: 1560381303941.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>298005
You're not understanding a basic principal of relativity when it comes to portals.

See when the orange portal moves, the blue portal is connected to it. Which means from the cube's perspective the blue portal is also moving. Meaning that the cube is not actually moving from ANY perspective but in fact the blue portal and it's attached reality is moving around the cube. The UNIVERSE IS moving to encompass the stationary cube. The cube is not being "spat out" into the universe.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298009

>>298004
What is the flaw of the argument in >>297230 ?

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298011

File: 1560381337022.jpg (145.55 KB, 1280x720, Haiyore Nyaruko-san W - 09 - L…)

>>298009
See my previous post.

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298014

>>298008
>Which means from the cube's perspective the blue portal is also moving.
Well I guess that's the inherent contradiction in this scenario: the cube is both moving closer to the blue portal and remaining the same distance away from it.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298016

File: 1560381537940.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>298014
The blue portal is moving closer the cube.*

The cube is not moving. Any statement that implies the cube has gained any form of acceleration is false.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298019

>>298016
"The blue portal is moving closer the cube" means the same thing as "The cube is moving closer to the blue portal". They both mean that the distance between the cube and the blue portal is decreasing.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298021

File: 1560381975156.jpg (66.46 KB, 781x444, 44b4659525ec.jpg)

>>298019
No it doesn't. Because energy doesn't work that way.

Think of it like this: If reference were completely in charge of energy, then if you were hit by a train going 70mph, the exact same thing would happen if you smashed into a stationary train moving 70mph. Except that isn't what happens. If a train hits you, it imparts the energy it has into your body, causing you to suddenly be flung in the opposite direction as you were struck with the same momentum the train has. If you struck a train at 70mph however, the amount of energy you impart into the larger object is MUCH less, meaning you would just come to a dead stop as your body compacted as the energy it had in it is absorbed by the larger mass. The train would NOT be flung in the opposite direction, nor would the entire mass of the train impart any opposing momentum on you, because the train is inert.

Similarly, an entire universe being dropped onto a cube would not have the same effect as a cube being launched into a universe.
This post was edited by its author on .

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298022

File: 1560382158592.png (3.55 KB, 484x229, Untitled2.png)

I'm going to explain this one last time. If you can't understand this, then there is no hope for you, may god have mercy on your soul.

example 1: A ball is moving to the right with velocity v1. For the sake of example we will say 10mph. Portals A and B are stationary. It passes into A at 10mph, and as it enters, it exists B also at 10mph. It continues on at 10mph.

example 2: (I'm not redrawing this so use your imagination) The ball is moving right at 10mph. Both portals are moving LEFT at 5mph. The ball encounters A with a relative velocity of 15mph. It enters A at the relative velocity = 15mph. It exist B at a rate of 15mph. But since B is moving left at 5mph, the ball continues with its initial velocity of 10mph. The ball moves relative to the reference frame at 10mph at all times. BUT it passes through the portal at 15mph.

example 3: The ball is moving right at 10mph. Both portals are moving RIGHT at 5mph. The ball encounters A and moves through at 10-5=5mph. It emerges from B at the same velocity = 5mph. But since B is moving RIGHT at 5 mph, it continues with its initial speed, equal to the velocity it passed through with (5mph) PLUS the speed of B (5 mph) = 10mph.

In all cases, the ball continues on its course at 10mph. The only difference is how quickly it passes through the portals.

Now that we've established that.

The ball is moving at 10mph. A is moving LEFT at 100 mph. This means the ball enters A at 110mph. The ball will now exit B at 110mph. If B is moving LEFT at 100mph, then it will return to its initial speed of 10mph.

HOWEVER, if B is stationary, then the ball will exit at 110mph, and continue at 110mph.

This is essentially What the question in the OP is asking.
Whatever speed the cube enters A with, is the same speed it must exit B with, or else be turned into atomic soup.
Thus, the portal A being smashed down on the cube will make it shoot off with the same velocity, simply because the two portals are not moving with the same speed in the same direction.

And this is why Toybox's ring analogies all fail. Because when you slam a ring down onto something, A and B are moving in the same direction with the same speed, meaning you enter and exit with zero change in momentum, hence why things don't fly away when you slam keyrings down around them.

I'm out.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: 563e74)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298023

>>297983
Uh

A creative angle. I'd probably focus more on this specifically if it's what you think since I'd certainly accept that scenario for a moving portal.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298026

File: 1560382271409.jpg (145.55 KB, 1280x720, Haiyore Nyaruko-san W - 09 - L…)

>>298022
This entire argument falls apart because the ball never moves. In this situation the ball already has energy in the form of inertia which it carries through the portal with it. The portal never induces or effects inertia in any way whatsoever so this doesn't work if the ball has zero inertia to start with.

Dumkomph.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298027

File: 1560382319713.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>298026 If the ball isn't moving, then it's just 0+100, genius.

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298028

>>298021
>if you were hit by a train going 70mph, the exact same thing would happen if you smashed into a stationary train moving 70mph
That is exactly what happens, at least in outer space.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298029

File: 1560382392922.jpg (66.46 KB, 781x444, 44b4659525ec.jpg)

>>298023
It's not a creative angle. It's literally what happens. Haha.

The blue portal is the thing that is moving, not the box. It's just that since people on the blue side of the portal are experiencing the same velocity the blue portal is, it appears stationary to them and it appears the box is moving, when in reality that isn't the case.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298030

File: 1560382564462.gif (1019.84 KB, 480x271, tumblr_mvw3p2wz2i1sq9yswo1_500…)

>>298028
Actually that's not the case. Mass still plays a role. If it didn't, a single pebble striking the Earth at 100mph would send the Earth flying in the opposite direction at the same speed. Granted, the amount of energy required to impart such a change in inertia is much lower since it's not being combated by the forces of friction or gravity.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298032

File: 1560382936869.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>298030 no concept of inertia whatsoever

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298033

File: 1560382949859.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>298027
The flaw in your explanation is that even though the ball enters the portal at a relative velocity of 110mhp the second it leaves the other portal the relative velocity has changed completely and it does not maintain that relative velocity because the frame of reference for has changed.

I can break your entire equation with a simple paradox: You throw a ball into the blue portal at 5mph and it is coming at you at ten miles per hour. Relative velocity: 15mph

The orange portal is moving away from you at 20mph.

Where does the ball go? At what speed does it exit the orange portal? -5? Would that cause it to come back out of the blue portal at you at 5mph? And since the blue portal is coming at you at 10 mph would that mean doing this would basically cause the ball to slingshot back at you at 15mph?
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Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298034

>>298030
Suppose two elastic balls B1 (of mass m1) and B2 (of mass m2) are on a collision course, and the distance between them is decreasing at 1 m/s. What happens when they elastically collide?

Edit: fixed mistake
This post was edited by its author on .

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298035

File: 1560383090816.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>298033 easy...
>I can break your entire equation with a simple paradox: You throw a ball into the blue portal at 5mph and it is coming at you at ten miles per hour. Relative velocity: 15mph
>
>The orange portal is moving away from you at 20mph.
>
>Where does the ball go?

It exits the portal at the speed it entered (15mph) in the frame of reference of the second portal, which relative to a stationary observer is moving 20mph, meaning the ball moves away at 35mph.

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298036

File: 1560383171686.jpg (155.81 KB, 1600x900, NyarukoW_04.jpg)

>>298035
So basically you're saying portals create infinite energy out of nothing?

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298037

>>298036
Yes, portals in motion (relative to each other) break conservation of energy.

Anonymous (ID: 563e74)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298038

>>298029
Oh

I thought you argued for annihilation. Not this stupidity again.

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298039

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298040

File: 1560383348822.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>298036 I'm simply using portal logic, not real world logic, in which portals do not exist.

Also, your question is akin to asking, "If you're driving down the highway at 70mph, and you throw a ball forward in your car at 20mph, will it hit you in the face at 50mph?" No, as long as you're in the frame of the car, the ball will go forward at 70+20=90mph relative to a stationary observer (at least until it hits the windshield).
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(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298041

File: 1560383568651.jpg (180.57 KB, 1920x1080, 20130408230540_original.jpg)

>>298038
>>298040
Actually the the game disproves your theory. If you put a portal on the ceiling and one on the floor and fall through it, you won't continue to generate momentum. You will hit terminal velocity and stop gaining speed. If relative velocity was maintained through the portals you would continue to gain speed with every iteration through the portals until you hit the speed of light.

Because of the fact that you can hit terminal velocity, it proves the portals simply act like a negative space as if you were simply falling an infinite distance instead of being a threshold that mantains every bit of relative motion each time you pass through it.
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!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298042

File: 1560383659042.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>298041 um.... no....
It means you maintain terminal velocity once you reach it. The portals are stationary, so there's no increase in speed simply by passing through.

Do you know what terminal velocity means?
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Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298043

>>297217
There is an Option C: the cube gets completely flattened on the exit portal.

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298046

>>298041
>You will hit terminal velocity and stop gaining speed
That's because of friction with the air.
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(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298047

File: 1560383822033.jpg (67.11 KB, 1280x719, 1391852922_haiyore-nyarukosan-…)

>>298042
Except for the fact that gravity is weaker the further away from the mass that you are so technically speaking if you were to fall 20 feet from one portal to one below you the amount of gravity acting upon you when you hit the bottom portal would be SLIGHTLY stronger than the forces acting on you when you exit the top portal, which given enough time would in fact cause infinite acceleration.

Good day sir.

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298048

>>298047
Does gravity go through portals?

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298049

File: 1560383898098.jpg (145.55 KB, 1280x720, Haiyore Nyaruko-san W - 09 - L…)

>>298048
If all relative velocity is transferred the way Boat says it is, yes.

(ID: b0e872)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298050

File: 1560383908444.png (289.8 KB, 361x513, 184.png)

It's not real, so it doesn't matter.

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298052

File: 1560383949514.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>298047 That's not how terminal velocity works. Oh man, you're really giving Dunning–Kruger Fox a run for his money today.

Snowbell (ID: 11a1bb)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298053

File: 1560383957330.jpg (627.62 KB, 1200x811, 1556503983553.jpg)

To further expound on the problem of portals and velocity. Well quite simply any imposition of velocity by the portal, no matter how minor would result in paste-ification. When one fires a 55gr. 5.56mm bullet, said bullet is driven from an initial speed of 0 to 3,260 feet per second(out of a 20" bbl) by 52,000 pounds of chamber pressure in a very, very short amount of time. Thing is, from the standpoint of internal ballistics the acceleration of the bullet is actually fairly gradual. For a metal projectile that is. Obviously if you stuffed a human into a battleship's gun even a very weak powder charge is going to result in paste-ification.
With a portal on the other hand, any velocity imparted onto a person or thing is going to be imparted far far less gradually than what a bullet or shell experiences. It might not be perfectly instantaneous, but that doesn't really matter much. Any imposition on velocity over any distance and in such a short period of time cannot help but result in horrible, pasty death. The results would be functionally no different than being shot out of one of HALO's MAC guns or Warhammer 40K's Nova Cannon.
Not even to mention the amount of energy that would be required to accelerate the mass of an average human nigh-instantaneously between two portals, whether they be 6 inches or 6 million miles apart... It's much more pleasant to imagine portals as wormholes that conjoin two distant points so that they act as a simple doorway that imparts negligible energy upon whatever passes between them.

So yeah, portals imposing velocity is a no-go. Don't do it.

Anonymous (ID: 5b054a)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298056

>>298053
If the cube emerging from the portal isn't moving, would it get flattened as all of its atoms materialize in the same plane?
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: b08ae1)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298057

File: 1560384549260.jpg (130.13 KB, 1440x810, Haiyore-nyaruko-ep-9-021.jpg)

>>298052
I'm just going to let Snowbell deal with it.

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298058

>>298043
I mean, that's what would happen if portals conserved energy. It is implicitly stated that isn't the case.

>>298053
>It's much more pleasant to imagine portals as wormholes
That's what B-ers do. >>297882

>>298052
Hey, fuck you.

Snowbell (ID: 11a1bb)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298059

File: 1560384638051.jpg (568.5 KB, 811x1200, 1556504075557.jpg)

>>298056

Well I don't see why it would be flattened specifically. I like my blender analogy, but you could also picture it as a laser grid, vaporizing the thing as it passed through and then preferably, reconstituting it on the other side.

>>298058

But then where does the velocity come from?

!XSAILBoatg (ID: 4db790)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298060

File: 1560384788953.gif (158.58 KB, 259x285, 5758800.gif)

>>298058 I'm kidding, aside from Toybox having no clue what she's talking about.

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298061

>>298059
You should speak about momentum rather than velocity.
Who cares? Make up a fictional source. We're only describing what is happening.

Snowbell (ID: 11a1bb)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298064

File: 1560385704892.jpg (936.67 KB, 2048x2839, 00ddf355699033c669879c2a3d3e64…)

>>298061

Nah, I'm pretty sure "velocity" is the proper term. Some thing is providing velocity to propel the mass of the cube thereby generating momentum, I am wondering what that thing is.

>Who cares? Make up a fictional source.


Well that's what I'm saying, you have to make something up because the portal clearly isn't doing it.

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298065

>>298064
>because the portal clearly isn't doing it
Why not?

Snowbell (ID: 11a1bb)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298066

File: 1560385924038.png (336.13 KB, 537x902, 0046998a42e257f42d9f9fb33599bf…)

>>298065

Because canonically they don't and you don't want them to.

Anonymous (ID: d69e6b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298068

>>298066
Canonically portals also don't move relative to each other.

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298071

>>298066
But they do. If you put a portal in any other angle than 180 degrees and stationary, you alter the momentum(velocity) of everything passing through.

Snowbell (ID: 8be27e)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298075

File: 1560387819093.jpg (65.79 KB, 600x785, 1559910637297.jpg)

>>298068

Yes. But the OP image assumes that one can.

>>298071

I'm not sure what you mean by that but Glados states that portals don't alter the velocity of things passing through them. Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298077

>>298075
Velocity is a physical quantity that has a magnitude and direction. It is necessary to at the very least alter the direction of the object's velocity.

Snowbell (ID: 8be27e)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298078

File: 1560389021042.jpg (619.98 KB, 2670x3331, 1556297876318.jpg)

>>298077
>It is necessary to at the very least alter the direction of the object's velocity.

Mmm... Yes? But the portal alters the direction by warping the space in-between them rather than explicitly imparting that alteration upon the person or object. It's a wormhole but it acts more or less like a doorway. By walking through a doorway allows you to pass through a wall. A portal allows you to pass greater distances and alter your position in various different ways but it does so by essentially negating the space between the portals, much as a doorway negates the solidity of a wall.

Anonymous (ID: 21c95a)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298300

Okay so the smash against the pedestal must create some kind of reactive force that pushes the cube up. Am I right to assume?

We don't know the speed or anything so there's not enough evidence to determine a true result.
This post was edited by its author on .

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: b1a162)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298303

File: 1560405276290.png (421.02 KB, 606x800, q0ac2bznvzqy.png)

Cato (ID: 1a7bb6)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298304

File: 1560405634366.jpg (534.3 KB, 1778x2667, 45930875_p0.jpg)

>>298303
Uhoh!

Physics brother said conservation of momentum so plop

Anonymous (ID: d69e6b)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298738

>>298304
Momentum isn't conserved even if the portals in OP pic were stationary. If a moving object enters the orange portal, it emerges from blue portal with a different velocity. (Recall that velocity is a vector quantity, not a scalar.)

Ika (ID: a7f8a4)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298779

File: 1560483906945.png (336.59 KB, 431x612, Screenshot_13.png)

>>298303
On one side he's a scientist.
On the other side wormholes aren't real.
Fuck I'm torn now...

Cato (ID: 1a7bb6)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298811

>>298779
>wormholes arent real

Anonymous (ID: 072dcd)Country code: gb, country type: geoip, valid: 1  298830

After some thinking, it’s neither A nor B, but somewhere in between

🐈🐈Dodger🐈🐈!FGiFL0Ecls (ID: 730b7b)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298839

>>298830
>cube shoots out exactly 3 feet
>every physicist commits murder/suicide on the spot

Anonymous (ID: 86af83)Country code: windows9x.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  298856

>>298839
now this is a good fucking post
This post was edited by its author on .


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