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File: 1531298416728.jpg (54.44 KB, 600x337, shut the fuck up liberal.JPG)

Anonymous (ID: 9d3604)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid:   154559[Last 50 Posts]

What have you done to combat liberalism today, /ef/?

Hauptmann (ID: e53af4)Country code: jp, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154566

File: 1531302307234.jpg (125.4 KB, 1200x900, lolis fighting.jpg)

Aether (ID: 0fde4f)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154577

>>154566
I love Akane-chan.

Anonymous (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154591

What have you done? You LARP.

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154605

File: 1531330072804.png (23.18 KB, 133x151, 33.png)

Nothing, I don't want to disturb the balance.

Anonymous (ID: b459f1)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154742

File: 1531352620817.jpg (73.74 KB, 960x708, mao on liberalism.JPG)

>>154591
>Lib gets triggered
Like pottery.

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154743

File: 1531352783201.png (97.63 KB, 268x361, 11.png)

>>154742
Both sides are pretty shit.

I wouldn't get on a high horse.

Ika (ID: 7708d8)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154744

File: 1531353679220.jpg (22.91 KB, 606x454, snake-in-hats-15.jpeg)

>>154743
He is just mad because he larps unironically.

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154745

File: 1531354092287.png (188.49 KB, 376x453, 01.png)

>>154744
I'd be embarrassed to call myself a conservative or a liberal at this point. Which is why I don't.

Anonymous (ID: b459f1)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154747

File: 1531354572376.png (257.87 KB, 500x1209, Combat Liberalism.PNG)

>>154744
>Liberal accusing others of LARPing
Yeah, okay, enjoy masquerading as a revolutionary while espousing identity politics and rainbow capitalism.

>>154745
Then don’t. Why limit yourself to two very specific right-wing ideologies?

Mk17 (ID: 1b4307)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154748

File: 1531354602099.jpg (16.43 KB, 366x360, 0.jpg)

>>154559
I consider myself a liberal, so... Nothing?

Anonymous (ID: ae2453)Country code: efchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154752

File: 1531355053075.jpg (50.32 KB, 540x425, centrist.jpg)

Ika (ID: 7708d8)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154753

File: 1531355089414.jpg (13.51 KB, 600x600, 10242715_grande.jpg)

>>154747
Here bro you dropped this.

Whelp!tEfVeritas (ID: 074f42)Country code: goggles.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154754

File: 1531355144835.gif (43.24 KB, 600x722, tumblr_oqqg8mlFQ61u9ghu7o1_128…)

>>154752

So you can only hold strong beliefs if they align perfectly with one of the two sides in US politics?

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154755

File: 1531355171777.gif (103.45 KB, 450x253, CAN'T_STOP_LAUGHING!!!.gif)

>>154747
>liberal
>right wing

Okay, you got me.

>>154752
I'm not a centrist either.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154756

>>154742
>points out your autistic LARP
>y-you're triggered and suddenly a liberal now
Pottery indeed.

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154758

File: 1531355424854.jpg (50.73 KB, 410x1000, sample-91c73c1a94d480a9cbd7cbb…)

>>154754
It's basically the new atheist meme. If you don't believe what they believe suddenly you're just trying to pretend you're smarter than them just because you have a different opinion.

People who immediately assume you're trying to act above them for not sharing their opinions or views are people who are insecure about their own stances and feel the need to attack anyone who doesn't immediately agree with them.

Snowbell (ID: 0084f2)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154759

File: 1531355471886.jpg (92.37 KB, 957x972, 1520801739617.jpg)

Well obviously they'll be executed as dissidents and counter-revolutionaries in the final days of the revolution.

Whelp!tEfVeritas (ID: 074f42)Country code: goggles.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154760

File: 1531355476108.png (221.74 KB, 600x942, tumblr_ozfq2kPRdr1u9ghu7o1_128…)

>>154758

It is all quite silly.

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154762

>>154760
I agree.

The funny thing is that communists of all people think they have the upper hand here. There's​ a meme that 'real Communism has never been tried.' but that's false. It actually has and it was quite effective.

They're called the Borg.

Ika (ID: 7708d8)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154765

File: 1531355673081.jpg (143.21 KB, 700x700, cute-snakes-wear-hats-101__700…)

>>154762
The borg were always right.

Whelp!tEfVeritas (ID: 074f42)Country code: goggles.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154767

File: 1531355681718.png (160.8 KB, 600x682, tumblr_ms0j7mSKJv1qkdvoho1_128…)

>>154762

Anarchists could say the same thing (That it's never actually been tried). At the end of the day, it's because both ideologies run counter to human nature, and can therefore never exist in a "pure" form for very long.

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154769

File: 1531355802206.jpg (36.42 KB, 848x787, Button_Burst_by_jollyjack.jpeg)

>>154765
The Borg is a perfect communist society. Everybody equal, everybody works for the collective good. Individuality is a threat to the collective and is purged.

Perfect communism turns people into expendable robots.

But it is pretty effective.

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154773

File: 1531355883770.png (230.44 KB, 400x559, 868667857667.png)

>>154762
i mean, literal meme ideologies tend be that way naturally

Ika (ID: 7708d8)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154774

File: 1531355888336.jpg (35.78 KB, 540x539, e1d8d3c7c05aeb6c8a7a6fa3389b64…)

>>154769
What's there not to like?
Protection, power, efficiency, not capitalism and you get the coolest looking space ships.
Truly the way to go.

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154778

File: 1531355988845.jpg (123.72 KB, 716x1280, 02a145067f9cf0a8ab4a274dae64f1…)

>>154774
No more sex is kind of a bummer. The Borg aren't very sexy.

That's the main deal breaker for me.

Anonymous (ID: b459f1)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154779

File: 1531356027405.png (1.55 MB, 1280x720, 126.PNG)

>>154753
I don’t know where you get the idea that I’m some sort of aut-rightist.

>>154755
Are you implying liberalism is left-wing?

>>154756
You don’t even know what LARPing is, do you? Because it describes liberalism and other self-declared socialists perfectly.

Mk17 (ID: 1b4307)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154780

File: 1531356029688.png (959.05 KB, 1422x1440, 018-07-04-12-43-17-1.png)

>>154767
>run counter to human nature
This

Of all the ideological mindsets anarchist makes me cringe the most. The natural order is to have a hierarchy, whether it be democratically elected leaders or mad max.

Ika (ID: 7708d8)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154781

File: 1531356137757.jpg (78.2 KB, 800x640, 1531311433990.jpg)

>>154778
A small price to pay for perfection.

Whelp!tEfVeritas (ID: 074f42)Country code: goggles.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154782

File: 1531356140722.png (195.07 KB, 600x1145, tumblr_oyayh3O7FI1u9ghu7o1_128…)

>>154762

Also, Toybox, could you edit the line on the crotch out of that picture? It should be a fairly simple edit, and while I'm not even sure if it is supposed to be a vagina, if it is, it technically breaks the rules slightly outside of mature threads. I know it's probably a bit annoying, but someone pointed it out, and they are technically correct.

Anonymous (ID: ae2453)Country code: efchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154783

>>154779
live action role playing..?

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154785

File: 1531356479975.png (494.74 KB, 559x695, 54654665464576.png)

i cant tell if serious anymore

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154786

File: 1531356588130.png (485.94 KB, 825x1280, 692cd52bd80a4a9ab9a65c8dcc7ad5…)

>>154782
I actually do have an edited version of that picture but when I post my phone shows me a cropped thumbnail and I cannot tell which one I am posting, and I lost the coin flip on this one. Sorry.

I was hoping no one would notice my fuckup.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17 (ID: 1b4307)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154787

File: 1531356628911.png (713.14 KB, 1045x894, 18-06-07-11-53-09.png)

>>154779
>liberalism and other self-declared socialists

Liberalism = socialist

Anonymous (ID: b459f1)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154788

File: 1531356672477.jpg (158.97 KB, 900x1200, Libs get the bullet too.JPG)

>>154759
This but unironically.

>>154762
>There's​ a meme that 'real Communism has never been tried.'
And indeed it’s just a meme, as no communist I’ve ever talked to has ever said that.

>>154767
>human nature
Not even going to take the bait on this one.

>>154783
Yes, liberals like to pretend to be socialists and revolutionaries, yet they simply continue to espouse their right-wing ideology. “Socialism is when the government does stuff” is a favourite of theirs.

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154789

File: 1531356734692.jpg (138.22 KB, 1280x1032, e211d976a4db48af6b4a6bfbc4e83a…)

>>154779
>Are you implying liberalism is left-wing?

Uh, yeah. Liberals are left. Conservatives are right. It's been that way since this whole two party system started.

Why the fuck would you think liberals were right wing?

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154791

File: 1531356917731.png (603.29 KB, 891x768, 79789090.png)

>>154789
to be fair i he is using it in the classical sense

classical liberalism is right-wing

atleast i think he is...

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154792

File: 1531357004397.png (676.79 KB, 1589x1209, 1454092808428.png)

>>154791
I think he's using the 'Everything I disagree with is right wing' argument.

Which is actually hilarious since the people who hate liberals the most are the right wing.
This post was edited by its author on .

Whelp!tEfVeritas (ID: 074f42)Country code: goggles.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154793

File: 1531357073343.png (99.99 KB, 500x369, tumblr_m1glnvF2fz1qkdvoho1_500…)

>>154786

That's fine, just mentioning it.

>>154788

You're basically wanting a society without ambition or greed. Almost all humans contain at least some of both, and a lot contain pretty high amounts. Communism cannot work as long as people aren't happy with what they have - and most people aren't.

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154794

File: 1531357354270.png (386.89 KB, 536x768, 677867855.png)

>>154792
oh, yeah maybe

kinda also funny how he is posting an image of a notorious dictator which lead to a failed state that resulted in the most nasty human atrocities in that era, resulting of mass famines, cannibalism and general totalitarianism .

i mean if you're trying to dismiss the “Socialism is when the government does stuff” claim you might wanna stop using his quotes and his images lol

because mao shouldnt be their portrait "this is real socialism/communism"
This post was edited by its author on .

Snowbell (ID: 0084f2)Country code: pittsburgh.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154796

File: 1531357473824.jpg (755.78 KB, 1024x865, 108_0014.JPG)

>>154788

What is this "unironically" you speak of?

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154798

File: 1531357724284.jpg (292.37 KB, 1280x873, 71be48029fe992438682401651733d…)

>>154794
People are notorious for the 'grass is greener' thing.

People follow communism because what they see in America right now is a war between Capitalism and Facism and they don't like either side. So they go with Communism because it's just not either of those two, without actually fully understanding what communism entails.

Communism on paper is efficient, effective and highly lucrative, but in order for it to work that way every person involved has to be an unthinking, unfeeling, subservient robot that only cares about their task in the collective. Yes, it's incredibly good from a technical sense, but if you want to actually be a human being and not an unfeeling cog in a giant machine, you're going to have a bad time in a communist society.

It's no coincidence that most societies that have attempted Communism have ended up treating it's people like disposable parts, where the easiest way to fix a problem is to get rid of the broken ones and replace them. (Kill the unhappy people and breed like rabbits.)

Because that is how you keep a machine running. People are not machines though, and Communism is a society designed for machines.

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154800

File: 1531358042755.png (128.2 KB, 272x366, 867867987768678.png)

>>154798
communism in general holds a pretty nasty stigma and for good reason to your average person

i mean, when people fly the flags and propaganda images of people that did shit like this, what do they expect people to view communism as?

sunshine and rainbows? fuck no...

communism actually has been successful in some cases but only in very small towns and homogeneous villages, but only for a small period of time when things began to grow and advance as they do naturally

but if they were to try to implement that in any american or european country it's just not gonna work
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous (ID: b459f1)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154801

File: 1531358100947.jpg (80.26 KB, 615x409, Absolutely reactionary.JPG)

>>154787
>Literal capitalism is socialism now
I can’t even.

>>154789
Oh, you’re American, aren’t you? For some reason a large number of your people seem to think liberalism is left-wing just because your government managed to purge out the old left a long time ago. In most, if not all other countries, liberalism is considered a right-wing ideology.

>>154791
I mostly refer to social liberalism, actually. Conservative liberalism and classical liberalism are a problem too, but at least they don’t pretend to be left-wing.

>>154792
It’s very simple to determine what is right-wing and what is left-wing. Pro-capitalism is right-wing and anti-capitalism is left-wing.

>>154794
Mao was decent, I mostly like his take on liberalism. Not my pick for top commie leader, but not as bad as others.

supershibe!kyt3ApgURM (ID: 21e211)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154802

File: 1531358115814.jpg (100.53 KB, 1300x1252, 4177620C-2AB9-4CA0-AED9-7042FA…)

I spent all day seizing the means of production

they’re under a tarp in my backyard now

Mk17 (ID: 1b4307)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154804

File: 1531358144111.png (1.2 MB, 4765x6992, lyra_by_8_notes-d9ixh40.png)

>>154789
Liberalism isnt a political or economic philosophy, its a social philosophy.

I think now a-days it would probably be considered right-wing by people.

Edit: okay wikipedia might say its political but you can be a liberal capitalist or a liberal socialist or a liberal ... Resource based economist... Or a liberal totalitarian or a liberal democritist (which i think is a word i just made up)
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154805

File: 1531358235043.png (131.31 KB, 228x455, 76756867987978.png)

>>154801
the only communist country i can give real credit to is yugoslavia

>Conservative liberalism and classical liberalism are a problem too

i dont consider them to be a problem as countries who atleast try to follow these principles tend to be the most prosperous with the highest standards of living in the world
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154806

File: 1531358423391.jpg (404.06 KB, 700x911, 1c8a2ba3c75361bf38f408ef9e4916…)

>>154801
I am pro-capitalism.

However I am not a supporter of the corrupted capitalist system currently being used in America.

See, people who support Communism blame corruption for ruining it's name, but Capitalism is the same.

What we have today in the US is not true capitalism. It's a corrupted form of capitalism where the rules have been rewritten to allow people to cheat.

I am fully a capitalist. However, I hold nothing but disgust for how the American government has corrupted it into what we currently have, which is some hellspawn of capitalism, facism and socialism wearing the skin of Capitalism.

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154807

File: 1531358577134.png (437.97 KB, 732x676, 6565477878.png)

>>154806
>US is not true capitalism
really wish you didnt use that argument ... because thats the same as >>154762

while i agree you're right

but you know...

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154808

File: 1531358748421.jpg (91.86 KB, 269x400, 2016-01-22 15.51.21.jpg)

>>154807
I've never said that communism is inherently bad. I'm saying humans are ill-equipped to actually function in a communist society. They just aren't built to meet the demands such a system requires to function.

It's​ not practical.

I'm not someone who just goes "Commies are bad, mmkay." without even bothering to learn how it works.

Anonymous (ID: b459f1)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154809

File: 1531358777398.jpg (15.06 KB, 256x256, Tito.JPG)

>>154805
Yup, my top pick would have to be a toss-up between Tito and Heng Samrin.

>i dont consider them to be a problem as countries who atleast try to follow these principles tend to be the most prosperous with the highest standards of living in the world

I’d argue that it’s social democratic countries that are the most prosperous.

>>154806
The current system in the United States is just capitalism in decay.

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154810

File: 1531358859147.png (189.52 KB, 338x405, 765765765756867.png)

see my reason why i dont believe communism can work for the most part is this

communism sort of has anarchists ties in a way

you would have to somehow convince people to think like you to get your system to work smoothly

at some point you're gonna need the state to set some sort of order

the reason why classical liberalism is more appeal because it lets people do things THEY want to do in their own image

you as an individual have the same not the collective

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154811

File: 1531358865634.jpg (59.44 KB, 640x404, 1285311_640.jpg)

>>154809
No it's corrupted Capitalism, just like Russia and China were corrupted communism.

The system fails when people stop following the rules.

Mk17 (ID: 1b4307)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154812

File: 1531358897330.jpg (12.53 KB, 256x276, kaqx-1432481970-99725-medium.b…)

>>154806
>>154807
Nothing is "true" anything. Every political system that is successful has elements of many. China is "communist" and her corporations makes millions on the stock market.

The US is "capitalist" but we all pay into unemployment insurence and social security.

The world isnt as black and white as all that.

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154813

File: 1531359000229.png (547.57 KB, 642x740, 876867987090.png)

>>154808
fair enough

>>154809
>I’d argue that it’s social democratic countries that are the most prosperous.
are you talking about countries that follow the Nordic model? or any euro country for that matter

yeah you'd be right, they are. but they still have a capitalistic system only with a stronger social safety net

so yeah, a market economy with stronger welfare state and worker protections

they still have alot of the same basic freedoms

>>154812
oh, i know
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154816

File: 1531359716991.jpg (66.12 KB, 600x776, bd4005a2ce199415f0e94df75537e4…)

>>154813
All government systems exist on a sliding scale with Equality on one side and Fairness on the other.

The more equal a society becomes, the less fair it becomes. The more fair a society becomes, the less equal it becomes.

Most societies tend to gravitate towards the center, where there is moderate amount of both fairness and equality.

However you can never have both perfect fairness and perfect equality because the two are counter-productive to the goals of the other.
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154817

File: 1531359870620.png (314.72 KB, 445x575, 8768798709.png)

>>154816
well yeah, fairness and equality are unobtainable goals

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154820

File: 1531360167063.jpg (63.7 KB, 514x1000, 1454092865865.jpg)

>>154817
Well they are, they just aren't obtainable together.

As a simple example if there are three people being paid to carry a box 50 feet, and the first person carries it 10 feet, the next person carries it 20 feet and the last person carries it 30 feet, Equality would dictate that all three get paid the same amount. Fairness, however, would dictate that each of them would be paid by how much they each contributed to the overall goal.

This is basically the fundamental difference between communism and capitalism.

Communism would say all of them get the same wage, even though they didn't do an equal amount of work. Capitalism would say each one would get paid based on how much work they actually did.

That is the simplest distillation of the fundamental differences between the two systems, and that is why I am a Capitalist and not a Communist.
This post was edited by its author on .

Mk17 (ID: 1b4307)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154825

File: 1531360870568.png (443.14 KB, 3300x3700, mlp___1st_lyra_vector_by_yoshi…)

>>154817
>well yeah, fairness and equality are unobtainable goals

Fairness is unattainable but i think equaility is attainable.
This post was edited by its author on .

(ID: 5b50b0)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154827

>>154769
But, no the borg are all drones that serve a Queen. Not commies at all, but totalitarianiam.

Noonim (ID: 32909c)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154828

>>154559
Liberalism by what standard?

(ID: ef0fe1)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154832

File: 1531361705318.png (304.57 KB, 511x574, 546546548786.png)

>>154820
>>154825
to me it doesnt seem attainable

there's always going to be some sort of hierarchical meritocracy in some form or another

(ID: c12c83)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154834

File: 1531361713164.jpg (20.99 KB, 267x400, tumblr_njgzfvVrpD1u7lim7o1_400…)

>>154827
(The queen was created just to give plot to Data. In the original concept they didn't have a queen.)

To quote the Wiki:
"The introduction of the Queen radically changed the canonical understanding of the Borg function, with the authors of The Computers of Star Trek noting "It was a lot easier for viewers to focus on a villain rather than a hive-mind that made decisions based on the input of all its members."

In other words the Queen is a cop-out created by directors because they felt audiences were too dumb to understand how the Borg functioned without a leader.

In the original design, the Borg are perfectly Communist. The introduction of the Queen into the narrative fucked that up. The canon explanation of the appearance of the Queen was that the Borg felt that they could not take EVERY species they encountered by force, due to constant failure to assimilate the human race, so the Queen was originally designed as an avatar or mouthpiece the collective would use to communicate with other species. She was basically the Borg's first elected representative, however because she was given the ability to think and process things individually to better communicate, she eventually learned she could manipulate the collective and turned it into a hive instead of a collective.

She had free will and she used it to become a dictator.
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Mk17 (ID: 1b4307)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154835

File: 1531362154236.png (171.22 KB, 900x1024, 0e611dc56a8b25faffac5152608e89…)

>>154832
Yeah, i suppose you are right. Im thinking more equality of opportunity. Which i think we have in spades in the US. Not totally, but pretty dang close.

(ID: 5b50b0)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154886

>>154778
They make babies, from the first ep our guys boarded a cube.

Definitely theres borg sex.

(ID: 5b50b0)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154889

>>154834
They never provided any means by which collective decisions were made. Without some kind of leadership they'd just be something running some old and probably damaged script like Vger or Nomad.

Anonymous (ID: 7f4ac4)Country code: bug.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154895

>>154889
Bullshit.
Bee swarms, the most socialized animals we know, democratically vote for the best construction site for a new hive and kill their old queen when her egg quality fails. Even they, a pinheaded insect species with no writing and fuck-all communication but autistic dances and farting in one another's face, manage to keep up rigid eusocial civilizations, ones where even the "leader" is subservient to the collective good, and serves no purpose but to shit out more children. If they can keep things going with pre-stone age technology, you can bet your ass human-intelligent units with brain networking can coordinate and make choices even better, with no faggy mortal figureheads needed to run the ship.
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Mk17 (ID: 1b4307)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154911

File: 1531373509776.png (1.05 MB, 1920x1440, 2018-06-10-17-19-43-1.png)

>>154889
The borg are a hive mind... Decisions are decided instantly as they all combine thier thoughts.

The real question is, if warf were assimilated, how far would he skew the results.

supershibe!kyt3ApgURM (ID: 3ec130)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  154934

File: 1531374973879.png (1.37 MB, 1080x1080, 1B080680-4AE8-4AB6-971A-09DFD0…)

>>154895

would you rather be part of a brutal colony like that where they will eat you alive if you make the wrong dance, or be one of the peaceful solitary species of bee just living in your personal burrow in the ground, aww yiss all these flowers for me

I think the answer is clear

Neopets (Element of Entropy)!dDE/GESO9Q (ID: 0f2a4b)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154940

>>154759
Pretty much this.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  154977

File: 1531378849407.jpg (96.19 KB, 945x920, 1455130632358-0.jpg)

>>154934
>tfw no bee waifu

Anonymous (ID: 020e84)Country code: bug.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155010

>>154934
There's no solitary living when your formerly collective network is hijacked by a dumb sycophant bitch who centralizes a democratic system and whose introduction likely weakened the hive-mind against human weapons to begin with.

Ofc I'd rather bee a solitary species than social scum like humans. Individualism's always the most desirable. Humans just aren't that. I'd certainly prefer the lesser evil of a collective hive-mind than any society with a leader though. Communism's a buzzkill, but having any single leader is orders of magnitude worse.
Borg may be drones, but they don't need one mortal master to function.

(ID: 5b50b0)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155025

>>154895
Gee darn nice irrelevant input there Encyclopedia Brown. Yes bees are cool wtf_all does that have to do with borg?

Btw there are as many different leadership structures among bees and ants as there are species so while the one system you describe does exist, yes, i bet you can't even name which species that is because your unimaginitive ravings are based in grouping the entire bee kingdom into a single amalgamation that somehow has anything to do with borg. Nice illogical assumptions.

>>154911
We can assume same however no system is ever presented by which the collective has any method of accepting input from drones (initiative) or method by which any kind of decision is presented to them (referendum). At the same time, plenty of information is discovered and discussed about how they share information like visual data etc.

Therefore conclusions that they do have collective democratic decisionmaking are baseless fanciful wishes that are clearly contravened in-canon by the revealed existence of a Queen and her backstory of totalitarianism.

>>155010
Well thats the problem with rule by the few in the first place isn't it? Like Trump's little trade war with China, just another sycophant bitch placing imaginary bullshit ahead of the good of all. The borg queen didn't happen along and take over a well-run democratic collective, the clearly-stated backstory introduced in-canon is that she created them to serve her.

But i see people are as willing to believe their own headcanon in fiction as they are in the bullshit false narrative of human history, which tells us even though we've been exactly the same for hundreds of thousands of years we've only been "smart" for the last six thousand and before that we ran around waving clubs and dimly saying Ook Ook.

Thanks all for confirming that my theory about our unwillingness to update our imaginary model of what we think things should be like with any kind of meaningful truths. In reality, everything any of us says basically amounts to nothing more than Ook Ook after all.

Elicoor13!Iris5KShmc (ID: 8a40e5)Country code: cascadia.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155027

File: 1531418433346.jpg (163.37 KB, 1038x739, DhTMvufU0AAFNfn.jpeg)

>this thread

also i like that really, only americans and other forigners are maoists because their families never had to suffer through one of the most disastrous periods of chinese history. seriously, the chinese have to polinate plants by hand now, partially thanks to maoist policy. but he sure owned those libs by starving and murdering his people. oh also lying about the progress of his "5 year plan", that must have also been just to own the libs. oh and that red guard that was basically an uncontrollable force of violent thugs, that really owned the libs.

seriously, maoist are the product of ignorance and contrarianism and should be disregarded.

(ID: 5b50b0)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155047

>>155027
Mao has been usurped itt by the Borg.

Let's stay on topic shall we.

Srly tho it must have fuckin sucked majorly under Mao or Stalin etc, holding either up as good for the people is pretty lame.

(ID: 3f013e)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155059

File: 1531425712946.jpg (194.97 KB, 740x777, Borg_False_Colors.jpg)

>>155047
>Mao has been usurped itt by the Borg.

Resistance is futile

Starshine!Laura/wmXM (ID: 8318ab)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155107

File: 1531436927289.jpg (24.29 KB, 248x248, IMG_20180709_082508.jpg)

Which ideology lets me be in a sorority of 2hus? I pick that one.

Anonymous (ID: 020e84)Country code: bug.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155162

>>155025
Borg queen was a disastrous retcon so Data would have an excuse to rub his silicone parts against something. The original Borg were at first a mixed allusion to both transhumanism, and basically viruses.

Plugging the whole population directly into an omnipotent neural network hasn't been tried even once.
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Anonymous (ID: 94f6e2)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155226

File: 1531465469998.jpg (127.55 KB, 631x539, Kerala.JPG)

>>155027
Mao was a pretty bad statesman, tbh, but his writings are great. When his ideas are put in the hands of other people they work out pretty well. Kerala is a good example of this. They’ve had a Maoist Party in power democratically for decades now and their reforms have led to Kerala having the highest living standards in India, in addition to the highest literary rate, life expectancy, sex ratio, and, of course, being the only state where people actually put the poo in the loo. Not even a Maoist, tbh, as western Maoists are pretty fucking autistic and eastern Maoists are incompetent. But south Asian Maoists are based as fuck. Gotta at least give Mao credit for that.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155233

File: 1531478135359.jpg (42.73 KB, 500x523, DY66kmjX0AEp0gz.jpg large.jpg)

>>155226
>give credit to yet another murderous totalitarian communist
Nah.

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155234

Haha every time someone expresses political opinions I don't like it's a larp. Gottem

Anonymous (ID: 88f785)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155235

File: 1531480722831.jpg (51.39 KB, 696x423, Maoism.JPG)

>>155233
Yes, the sparrow thing was full-on retarded, as was the steel thing. All in all, Mao should have remained a theorist and military leader. If he had lived longer, Chen Duxiu would have been far better at leading the country (even if he did identify as a Trot later on). He pretty much agreed with most of Mao’s good theories while calling out his bullshit ones. New Democracy is the stupidest fucking thing. “The bourgeoisie will willingly join the revolution against capitalism, guys, I swear!” Other than that, though, peasant revolution, protracted people’s war, combatting liberalism, mass line, agrarianism, and self-criticism are pretty good. The three worlds theory is stupid too, though. Overall, I agree with the Chinese government’s assessment that Mao was 70% good and 30% bad. I still like making fun of Mautists, though.

Ika (ID: f9c4a5)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155236

File: 1531480920317.jpg (34.08 KB, 590x786, 1531452651816.jpg)

>>155234
Spotted the butthurt larper.

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155237

>>155236
It's really stupid . If you think OP is just larping with all of this other serious talk they're doing you're delusional. And I've seen the same come from far-left, the far-right and everything in-between.I get the point of it, but in the end the majority of times "larp" is used as an accusation it's meant to invalidate their political beliefs entirely. And that isn't even always a good thing for the one accusing others of larp'ing. Because for example if you're pretending that all of /pol/ is just a larp you are effectively minimalizing /pol/ to just a game when it's more serious than that. They and people like them are real people who end up having an influence on the world.
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Ika (ID: f9c4a5)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155238

File: 1531481772597.jpg (10.7 KB, 232x293, 1531374893019.jpg)

>>155237
Considering it's the internet it's kind of normal to take this kind of stuff as a joke, I mean he is posting this in a my little pony: friendship is magic imageboard, it's hard to take any of this seriously. It doesn't mean I don't take them seriously tho, I treat them as if they were legit under a fake layer of dumb irony. For example I do believe mikie wants tot rain every single american kid so that they are efficient with guns, as he has said before. It might sound absolutely retarded, but I do know there are people capable of believing such things.

I also just call people larpers to piss them off.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155239

>>155235
Personally, I'm inclined to label authoritarian collectivists responsible for countless murders as "just bad".

Ika (ID: f9c4a5)Country code: mx, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155240

File: 1531481898399.jpg (25.34 KB, 327x497, 1531282155374.jpg)

>>155239
>Tfw not omnipotent so I can't become a totalitarian collectivist
One day I will become god, one day...

Anonymous (ID: 94f6e2)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155245

File: 1531487871697.jpg (228.72 KB, 740x940, Josip Broz Tito.JPG)

>>155239
Mao really wasn’t as authoritarian as one might think. There have been way more authoritarian leaders of all ideologies, capitalists (Suharto, Rios Montt, etc.), communists (Stalin, Rakosi, etc.), fascists (literally all of them), jucheists (the Kims, Ceausescu), and so on. Even the SocDems had their own (Friedrich Ebert). But a bit of authoritarianism isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I’d prefer a system on the more libertarian side, but I don’t rule out all authoritarian ideologies. Still, I criticise Stalin for being too authoritarian, but Mao was more moderate. His real issue was his inability to run a country.

>collectivist

I disagree that that’s a bad thing at all.

>responsible for countless murders

Now, a communist might tell you that the death tolls are overblown or that capitalism has lead to more deaths than communists could even dream of, but I don’t think that that’s an excuse for the deaths that *did* occur. What I will say is this; we need to look at what went right and improve it. That’s what the communists in Kerala did. And now they beat out the rest of the country in nearly everything. Mao wasn’t some perfect being, but his theories and accomplishments are very important. Sure, he made a lot of mistakes, but his theories have been improved upon in the form of MLM and the Kerala model. (Fuck third worldism, though.) Do I think MLM or the Kerala model are perfect? Nah, not really. But I do realise their merits.

So yes, people died. It isn’t excusable. But that’s not all Mao did and it shouldn’t be the only thing he is remembered for. He should be criticised, yes, as saying he did nothing wrong would be pretty fucking dogmatic, but we can still learn from his writings and experiences. So as I said earlier, he was decent. Not the best, but not the worst. (If you want the best, look no further than pic related.)

Anonymous (ID: 020e84)Country code: bug.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155248

Mao was worse than Stalin and Hitler. At least those two almost succeeded at what they claimed they'd do. Millions of deaths to get your way still isn't evidence that National Socialism can't work if that's inherent in the current application of the ideology.

Anonymous (ID: d060ac)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155255

File: 1531492431045.jpg (107.06 KB, 720x720, capitalism in decay.JPG)

>>155248
I’d argue that Mao was better than Stalin. Mao’s theories (at least the good ones) have been quite important. Stalin didn’t really do anything. Sure, there was the rapid industrialisation and the defeat of fascism, but I’d say those accomplishments were achieved in spite of him rather than because of him. Stalin didn’t really add anything important to socialist theory and what he did add (socialism in one country) he didn’t even adhere to.

As for Hitler, I don’t believe that national ““““socialism”””” (read: fascism) was a failure because of its death toll. I think it failed because it was an unsustainable system that relied on rearmament, mass privitisation, exploitation of the working class, and imperialism. The inherent contradictions of capitalism are still there, fascism is simply capitalism’s last-ditch attempt to preserve itself.

(ID: 090ead)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155263

File: 1531497216198.png (547.57 KB, 642x740, 876867987090.png)

>>155255
>fascism is simply capitalism’s last-ditch attempt to preserve itself.
no not quite, fascists have little to no interest in preserving capitalism but more to do with controlling it for the interest of the nation

it's pretty much an economy that sets its priorities as a duty for the good of the nation and it's people

while it's true that fascism does have a lot of the same principles that can be found in capitalism like private property and the ability for private business ownership, corporations, etc. it must be approved by government.

for example if the government finds something to be degenerate or think it's bad for national interest they would outright outlaw it

that's a far-cry from "preserving" capitalism

i could also argue that fascists want absolutely nothing to do with any sort of free market or even capitalism itself

it's just nationalism, duty and pride. that's about it
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Anonymous (ID: 53feaa)Country code: bug.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155264

I wonder if anyone here has an actual argument for why nationalism has become permanently synonymous with ethno-nationalism, as if no other form is even capable of existing.


If you remove the arbitrary ethnic polarization that's been wrongly linked to it, there's a case to be made that a combination of civic nationalism and forms of socialism could be good for society at this current stage. The Third Reich suffered because it cucked every scientist that had an ancestor fucked by an ethnic "Jew." It's entirely possible for non-Jewish stateless banking sycophants to hijack your nation, just as poor and apolitical descendants of ethnic Jews exist (and continue to pose a problem for ethno-nationalist ideology).
Financial powers just want us to automatically link criticism of international banking with antisemitism so that only dem craaaaaaaazy nahtzee rednecks can criticize their corruption.
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Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155270

>>155245
Individualists are not going to be authoritarian. Goes against the basic foundation. Collectivists of all types have a leaning towards authoritarianism, definitely. That's why collectivists are always cancer.

Anonymous (ID: 53feaa)Country code: bug.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155278

>>155270
Greed is an exacerbation of the individual self-preservation drive, and that can absolutely cause authoritarian actions. Especially if one individual is disproportionately powerful or wealthy, giving them more agency to preserve their own interests. The will to dominate is a natural consequence of sharing a world of limited resources with other life-forms.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155280

>>155264
Many have tried to explain that but they just dismiss it and say it's no different than ethnic nationalism

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155286

File: 1531502847436.png (58.2 KB, 223x195, 7 (2).PNG)

>>155278
That's literally not individualism, though, mate. One person trying to secure power for themselves does not an individualist make. As we can clearly see with communist dictatorships, which there are quite a plenty.

Individualism is about primarily the concept of rights. The idea that the individual's rights matter more than some percieved collective good. That it is better to have a system which the rules within apply to everyone, than a system in which the government can round up your family, shoot your sons, rape your daughters, and steal your property in the name of some kind of "greater good".

Communists never seem to understand individualism.
It's like they've never done any research at all on the subject.

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155334

>>155270
Collectivist Anarchism.

Anonymous (ID: d060ac)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155339

File: 1531512468141.jpg (30.16 KB, 400x393, Velasco.JPG)

>>155263
Fascists never “controlled” capitalism, though. They outright worked alongside capitalists and continued to exploit the workers while expanding privatisation. All they did was aid the capitalists in the end. Their suppression of anything deemed “degenerate” was purely to maintain their power. The capitalists controlled the fascists, not the other way around.

>>155264
Well I certainly don’t think that way. Sadly nationalism has had its name tainted. Left-wing nationalism is actually pretty based. Velasco was a hero. Left-wing ethno-nationalism is cancer, though.

>>155270
>Individualists are not going to be authoritarian. Goes against the basic foundation.
What do you make of the numerous capitalist dictatorships, then?

>Collectivists of all types have a leaning towards authoritarianism, definitely. That's why collectivists are always cancer.

Shh, nobody tell him about libertarian socialists or any anarchist society ever.

(ID: 4d1acd)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155346

File: 1531514337419.png (485.94 KB, 825x1280, 692cd52bd80a4a9ab9a65c8dcc7ad5…)

>>155339
Facism is the antithesis of Capitalism.

Capitalism is about "earning one's keep fairly". Facism is about taking one's keep by force. There is nothing fair about Facism.

The two are incompatible.

Resies (ID: 8ab367)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155359

>>155346
No capitalism is about private control of the means of production

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155360

File: 1531516990728.jpg (98.41 KB, 972x1200, 1526873975050.jpg)

>>155339
Dunno. Either they're running some cult-of-personality type things for their own personal gain,or they're simply ignoring the economic side, and really running something more similar to fascism.
I'd have to read more in to them, I suppose.

>Shh, nobody tell him about libertarian socialists or any anarchist society ever.

So, the retards who never get any power. Right. Cool argument.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155361

>>155359
Hardly. It's more to do with the free trade and ownership of property.

(ID: 4d1acd)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155363

File: 1531517295019.jpg (85.64 KB, 750x1100, 1443852771306.jpg)

>>155359
No it isn't.

Also, what does that even really mean?

The 'means of production' is a meme.

Noonim (ID: 5bc452)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155367

>>155363
Have to agree. It seems to be used to refer to factories, but, the simple fact is, everyone owns a base level of production. What people are whining about is really just a multiplier.

(ID: 4d1acd)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155369

File: 1531517974556.png (485.94 KB, 825x1280, 692cd52bd80a4a9ab9a65c8dcc7ad5…)

>>155367
What people are whining about is not being their own boss.

They want "the means of production" handed to them. You want to run a factory? Buy a building. Buy machinery. Buy the land.

You want to control the means of production? Sure. Go aquire it like every other person who controls it does. You're not going to be handed control of a company just because you filled out an application and got hired.
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Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155370

>>155360
You said collectivists of all types not collectivists in power. I don't know why you're acting like he didn't respond accordingly.

Noonim (ID: 5bc452)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155389

>>155370
Fair. I'd pin those idiots as "cannon fodder for actually practical collectivists". I'm afraid I do not take them seriously.

Besides, they're typically still there kind of cute take to okay the assault or violation of the rights of people, in the name of a percieved greater good

(ID: 26ee83)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155399

File: 1531523471714.png (212.83 KB, 398x455, 767676765765876.png)

>>155339
are you lost? Yes they did. you're wrong

who controlled it then?

it was not commies

Anonymous (ID: 4ce45c)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155406

File: 1531525828245.png (360.76 KB, 459x547, CNT FAI.PNG)

>>155346
>>155363
>>155369
>Capitalism is about "earning one's keep fairly".
>The 'means of production' is a meme.
>Buy a building. Buy machinery. Buy the land.

If you honestly think the bourgeoisie got their massive wealth fairly, can’t grasp the simple concept that is the MoP, and believe that just anyone can walk out and buy a factory, then I don’t know what to tell you.

>>155360
There’s two libertarian socialist societies that exist right now, though, the Rebel Zapatista Autonomous Municipalities and Rojava. That’s more than the single authoritarian socialist state (Cuba). Besides, the anarchist societies of the Free Territory and Catalonia were pretty based.

>>155399
The capitalists, obviously. Who else?

(ID: 26ee83)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155417

File: 1531527850554.png (470.75 KB, 595x677, 7667658987.png)

>>155339
>>155406
you're literally missing the point here

yes they did

literally every post of yours is "its only leftism to my standards bro"

keep blaming the people who/why your life wealthy i dont care

but for fucks sake dude
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Elicoor13!Iris5KShmc (ID: f23da6)Country code: cascadia.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155418

File: 1531528113863.jpg (159.2 KB, 960x696, jtrofdzpa6901.jpg)

>>155107
i'd vote for a miko/byakuren ticket in 2020. i dunno about the yakumo/saigyouji ticket tbh, mostly cuz yukari gapping everywhere might throw off the constituents. also we'd have a president who napped thru most of her term, and a vice president who might accidentally bankrupt the nation with her appetite.

>>155047
...m-my bad for the re-rail.
>>155226
ah, i see.

yeah that one place is a good example of maoism done well, but...like...the khmer rouge were ostensibly maoists, and when you have two major failures at bat ideologically, i think we can write it off as an "it works if literally no one is an asshole" ideology.
>>155406
>Besides, the anarchist societies of the Free Territory and Catalonia were pretty based
>There’s two libertarian socialist societies that exist right now, though, the Rebel Zapatista Autonomous Municipalities and Rojava

i like how capitalists like forgetting that actual anarchy that isn't just random violence has happened and been peaceful(until someone else attacked them) when it's been tried on a small scale. like, the cntfai is a perfect example of an anarchist society running well, but because the spanish civil war happened, everyone wants to forget that their experiment failed because they lost their civil war. not because they mismanaged things(though they could have made some better tactical choices) by the way, but because they had hitler and mussolini funding the fascists.

like, they lost a war that was weighed heavily against them, their society didn't collapse due to any mismanagement, it was a direct result of being the poorest faction in a three way civil war. they were, shock of shocks, more concerned about helping their people rather than gearing up for war or grandstanding, but sure, anarchism has never succeeded ever.

but yeah sure guys, anarchist societies always fail because it's impossible, no way there's history of such a thing happening that still has an effect on parts of spanish politics, it's all just leftists larping. never mind the accounts of free catalonia from multiple sources, never mind the fact that people were taken care of, it's just anarchists and that can't have ever worked, i-it's called anarchy so it must have failed cuz it's impossible.

a-ahem...n-not like i have super strong feelings on this or anything.

(ID: 26ee83)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155420

File: 1531528260877.png (144.38 KB, 321x501, 67765765765.png)

>>155418
he is wrong

commies like to point out some shitty state that nobody cares about and call it a success

at the end of the day its garbage
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(ID: 4355bc)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155421

File: 1531528532100.jpg (292.37 KB, 1280x873, 71be48029fe992438682401651733d…)

>>155406
>If you honestly think the bourgeoisie got their massive wealth fairly

They didn't, obviously. But at that point they are no longer Capitalists.

Anonymous (ID: caf501)Country code: bug.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155504

File: 1531537046135.png (1.65 MB, 3510x3157, chrysalis_lolipop_icon_by_tyle…)

No, see, if it were real capitalism then no one would have monopolies or lobby the government because everything would be pure competition and firms would cycle in and out of business overnight. Real capitalism has never been tried.

Anonymous (ID: 4ce45c)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155508

File: 1531539765363.png (661.96 KB, 1000x910, Mao Pol Pot.PNG)

>>155417
Well excuse me for “missing the point” when your only argument is “b-but yes they did”.

>>155418
The Khmer Rouge were not Maoists. They were a CIA plant that had full support from the United States even after they were kicked out of power by actual communists. They were quick to denounce communism and form an alliance with monarchists to destroy the new communist government. Fuck the Khmer Rouge, Heng Samrin was based.

But I agree with you on the CNT-FAI. I love those guys.

>>155420
Not even a commie tbqh, fam. And neither were the CNT-FAI. They were anarcho-syndicalists.

>>155421
But they own capital, they’re literally capitalists.
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(ID: 4355bc)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155513

File: 1531544991467.jpg (10.8 KB, 200x200, 1444019259_scarywoof_sierra_fa…)

>>155508
>But they own capital, they’re literally capitalists.

That isn't even remotely how this works.

That's like saying being part of any sort of community makes you a communist.
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(ID: 4355bc)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155514

File: 1531545232412.jpg (138.22 KB, 1280x1032, 1454092950838.jpg)

>>155504
You're not actually that far off despite the fact that you're being sarcastic.

Money should have absolutely no say in politics, ever.

In my view, serving as a politician should work similarly to serving in the armed forces. You live in a barracks, you go through training to do your duty, and you are to live according to the demands of the branch you serve.

People should not be rewarded for serving in a public office. It should be unpleasant and anything BUT comfortable, because then only those DEDICATED to doing the job the way it's supposed to be done will want to do it.

Right now being a politician is expensive meals at fancy dinners, expensive suits and all that bullshit. No. These are public servants, just like the people that serve in the armed forces, only they don't risk their lives, they just have to delegate issues.

So it should be set up to deter anyone but the most dedicated to try and take one of these positions. Not be a free ticket to a life of luxury, or else every scam artist will crawl out of every rock to try and get them, and that is what we currently have.
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Mk17 (ID: 07faf5)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155520

File: 1531545864509.png (1.68 MB, 1975x1440, 18-05-18-13-03-11-1.png)

>>155514
>Money should have absolutely no say in politics, ever.

Second

AustroSpike (ID: 907e1a)Country code: at, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155579

>>155514
We also have conscription here.
How woud you view mandatory political service? (which we actually do have in election assistance staff and jury service)

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155593

>>155508
You never had any arguments to begin with, dude. You're a walking meme because everything you say is "buts thats not real x, man". Thank fuck nobody but people who sit around in Discord servers take your ideals seriously. All the they do is LARP and bitch about Trump

And yeah, fascists DID control capitalism that was the whole of point of it. But hey, at the end of the day Italy is still capitalist :^)
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Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155596

>>155593
They definitely talk about very real issues too though.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155597

>>155596
They wouldn't know real life issues if it walked up to them and hit them in the face

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155598

>>155597
I think you just want to believe that for obvious reasons but it's also possible you just never paid attention when it happens. Either way, it's really no worse than here from what I've noticed.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155599

>>155598
I don't really care what you noticed desu.

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155600

>>155599
You seem pretty tense though. Why's that?

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155601

>>155600
How do you get that implication out of 8 words I've used?

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155602

>>155601
It's not just the last post, also the first post I responded to in this thread. It's not hard to notice tbh. You start sounding a bit more aggressive.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155604

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155606

>>155604
I'm not trying to start something though. Just don't want things getting tenser than they need to be.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155607

>>155606
They aren't so don't worry.

Anonymous (ID: 4ce45c)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155609

File: 1531565249346.png (162.5 KB, 259x242, Chairman Mao.PNG)

>>155513
>That isn't even remotely how this works.
In terms of nearly all left-wing theory, yes it is. Those who control the capital are the capitalists.

>That's like saying being part of any sort of community makes you a communist.

That’s not where the “commun” in communism comes from.

>>155593
>everything you say is "buts thats not real x, man".
Out of everything I’ve said, that’s what you got out of it? The only ones saying that are the right-wingers in this thread, which you even said you agree with here:
>>154807

>Thank fuck nobody but people who sit around in Discord servers take your ideals seriously

And what are those ideals? You seem to think I’m a communist, but, as I said, that’s simply not the case.

>But hey, at the end of the day Italy is still capitalist :^)

And it always has been.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155613

>>155609
>they were not commies
>they're syndicalists.
Its nothing more but another form of leftism dude

>and it always has been

Yep, it has. And successful. But not as successful as general anglo countries

(ID: e167f7)Country code: amsterdam.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155667

File: 1531584489972.jpg (212.28 KB, 1100x868, dog.jpg)

>>155609
Well, your left wing theories are bunk.

The idea of abolishing all capital is ridiculous. I decided to look up the actual definition of communism and apparently the 'comm' part stands for common, meaning everyone owns everything and there is no private property, which is fucking absurd.

Anonymous (ID: a4e900)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155679

File: 1531590653556.jpg (48.69 KB, 700x455, 1522350860939.jpg)

>muh CIA plants
>my shitty system would have worked if the USA wasn't oppressing us!
>muh small commune that lasted a few years with maybe less than a thousand people
>the numbers lie!
>it's only real communism when it fits to my standards as what real communism is
Every single time.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155688

File: 1531593712292.gif (1.23 MB, 800x667, OBFAk2r.gif)

Anonymous (ID: d1d072)Country code: bug.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155703

Daily reminder that socialism does not automatically equal communism and the former can and has worked.

(ID: ee39ca)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155706

File: 1531598115255.png (134.32 KB, 307x325, 76765876876.png)

>>155703
nobody said it was the same thing though

communism has worked too in a small scale

Anonymous (ID: a26b36)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155714

File: 1531600901331.jpg (192.77 KB, 1178x1116, 1531599549043.jpg)

Today I did absolutely nothing.

Liberalism is taking care of itself and I couldn't be happier I didn't have to dirty my hands on it.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155718

>>155703
Isn't communism something supposed to come from socialism, though?
Also, what socialist country has worked?

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155719

>>155714
Nobody seems to be clarifying this, but, liberalism by what standard?
Because modern "liberals" are anything but, after all.

Anonymous (ID: 4a6b68)Country code: bug.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155720

>>155718
Europe is burning because they extended their noblesse oblige to an international scale, in the form of letting in hordes of dangerous invaders with no attempt at integrating them as compensation for the destabilization of their lands - which ironically happened more at the hands of the US than Europe.
Before that, there's a case to be made that the standard European model of democratic socialism, particularly the Nordic model, could've eventually bounced back from whatever temporary hardships they might've experienced were it not for the additional social strain of the refugee influx.
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Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155721

>>155720
They aren't socialist, though. They're all capitalist nations. Anyone who says they're socialist really doesn't understand how socialism works.
I'd recommend reading on the subject, honestly. It's a bit more complex than "we have welfare".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/#e05a81674ad3
https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/
https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist
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Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155728

>>155721
It's a form of social democracy with socialist elements. But from my understanding you're right, it's not democratic socialism which is a different thing from social democracy but it's easy to confuse the two. Otherwise I agree with him.
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Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155729

>>155728
Socialist elements like what?
Having a bit of welfare doesn't count, you ask me.

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155734

>>155729
It counts imo but there's also collective bargaining.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155735

File: 1531606610233.png (102.48 KB, 360x323, 10.png)

>>155734
Collective bargaining isn't socialist, either.
Hell, I'd make the argument that collective bargaining is more capitalist, than socialist, as it is essentially about a group using their influence to barter for something. Workers refusing service, for instance, until they get guaranteed better conditions.

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155737

>>155735
Well social democracy was originally intended to be a means of peaceful transition from capitalism to socialism for a reason. True, it's not technically socialist anymore than it's capitalist but it's part of the means of getting there.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155738

>>155737
So, even there, it's still capitalism, then. It's just a method by which to make people more comfortable with government intervention into market affairs, at the absolute best, going off this argument.
Still leaves it as a complete trash example for "successful socialism" as was originally suggested by >>155720, even with this assumption.

Anonymous (ID: 3cfefe)Country code: de, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155743

>people thinking Europe is socialist
Fucking Americans...

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155746

>>155738
I'm not in any state to be arguing politics without tripping over myself even though I've already went over this with myself before and already established that it doesn't inherently have socialist elements, but of course I'm saying it does outloud because I'm jumbling it's purpose with it's practice or something. I just had this tab open and I started saying shit.

>>155743
I never said that actually. I said elements. Social democracy is primarily capitalist.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155748

File: 1531607810144.png (87.14 KB, 352x298, 4.PNG)

>>155746
Meh, fair enough
Point being, in any case, socialism does not work.
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Anonymous (ID: 08689d)Country code: getchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155921

File: 1531636276199.jpg (108.92 KB, 486x330, projecting.JPG)

>>155613
>Its nothing more but another form of leftism dude
Yes, but not all leftism is communism.

>Yep, it has. And successful. But not as successful as general anglo countries

Successful at being exploitative and imperialist, sure.

>>155667
Well, we can see their outcomes in history. They’ve been successful for the most part, much more successful than capitalism.

>>155679
I don’t know where you right-wingers pull this shit from. I’ve been saying that “communism” (in reality it’s just socialism, not communism yet, but if you want to call it communism then fine) has been largely successful in the past. It was real and it did work. It’s been the right-wingers in this thread who have been saying “well that’s not real capitalism”. You’re projecting pretty damn hard there.

☲ Prince Ember Storm!MSNowBALLk (ID: 101eed)Country code: ca, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155922

File: 1531636524835.png (94.37 KB, 341x312, Ember Storm - Pfffffft - Disco…)

>>155921
>communism
>successful

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155930

File: 1531638392695.png (131.25 KB, 377x311, 1.PNG)

>>155921
It never did work, though.
As for "it's not real capitalism", well, what specifically do you refer to?
Capitalism is simply the free exchange of goods and services.
It's exclusively an economic system.

Anonymous (ID: d45ed9)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155932

I bet I posted some memes somewhere. That'll show 'em.

Neopets (Element of Entropy)!dDE/GESO9Q (ID: fc63bd)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155937

>>155932
It's doing more than you think. Aren't they going to ban memes in the EU soon anyways?

Anonymous (ID: d45ed9)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155938

>>155937

I think that happened already, even. Gross.

Neopets (Element of Entropy)!dDE/GESO9Q (ID: fc63bd)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155939

>>155938
Keep resisting because they want to take away our only means of communication. Gross, right?

Neppy!DESU/dTf9A (ID: bc206f)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155942

File: 1531640502264.png (110.5 KB, 275x326, 1531610115968.png)

When do we remove communism?

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155944

>>155942
Hopefully, soon. I think people're slowly pushing back on them. Rather shocked that it wasn't so heavily pushed back against before, honestly.

Anonymous (ID: d45ed9)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155945

>>155944

I think there's always going to be a sort of equilibrium to it. If it's pushed back enough, it'll be so small that no one feels a need to push it back, right? It's only when it starts gaining traction again that people step up to make sure it doesn't get anywhere.

Neppy!DESU/dTf9A (ID: bc206f)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155946

File: 1531641109139.png (317.36 KB, 500x539, 1530210278264.png)

>>155944
I mean, there was the Red Scare way back in the 50s. We need a Red Scare 2.0.

Neopets (Element of Entropy)!dDE/GESO9Q (ID: fc63bd)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155947

>>155946
Unironically this. Which crazy politician do we elect to start it?

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155948

File: 1531641275751.png (101.43 KB, 296x292, 8.png)

>>155945
Guess so, but, naziism was always kept pretty well down, and, it never seemed to have an issue of that sort of deal. People recognized it as the violent and dangerous ideology it was.
We need that for communism. It's just as bad, after all.
>>155946
Never liked the name of that. It wasn't really a "scare". It was a real thing going around at the time.
But, you're right.
People need to be concerned about this shit.

Neopets (Element of Entropy)!dDE/GESO9Q (ID: fc63bd)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155949

>>155948
Okay, when do we get a red push back, and where should it come from?

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155950

>>155949
Well, I think it's happening right now. You see across the country, across the world, working class individuals starting to protest, starting to actually fight for their rights, and generally push back against authoritarianism and collectivism across the board.
I'm hoping it keeps momentum, and, maybe starts actually calling the communists for what they are.

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155951

>>155946
>>155947
You do realize that was bad for everyone and effected far more people than just actual communists right. Plus even if you're of the belief that communism is inherently too flawed to be sustainable, why should people be persecuted for it? If you think communism is actually going to make a comeback any time soon and that it isn't already immensely hated and wasn't already I don't know where you're looking. Regardless of whether or not it is inherently flawed, most people's opinion on it has already made it very unlikely to be tried again in any major country any time soon if ever. I don't know why ya all are so concerned about this that you'd end up talking like this.
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Neopets (Element of Entropy)!dDE/GESO9Q (ID: fc63bd)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155952

>>155950
Part of me thinks they are going to win anyways. Part of me is sad.

>>155951
That's probably the reason why we haven't had a real red "scare", apart from the one in the 50's. It's very unlikely to be tried again. I'm not too concerned because there's no real reason to be.
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Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155953

File: 1531642079271.png (98.17 KB, 292x216, cereal.PNG)

>>155951
It should be persecuted for the same reason naziism is persecuted.

Anyway, I don't think it's as hated as you suggest. It's something popular enough to have some higher up supporters.
Corbyn himself praised Maduro, a while back, and he's a contender for prime minister, from what I hear.
>>155952
Victory is assured when the enemy loses morale.
Can't give up. Best we can do, even if things look a bit hopeless, is keep trying.

Neopets (Element of Entropy)!dDE/GESO9Q (ID: fc63bd)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155954

>>155953
Some would even consider me far left or whatever. If history tell us anything it's don't fight them because let them go broke. How can you fight an enemy that is literally willing to kill itself?

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155955

>>155953
Well if you're of the belief that nazi is a far over-used term I don't see why you wouldn't believe that you're on the right track to allow communism to be the boogeyman by which witch-hunting anyone who deviates from the political norm even slightly becomes acceptable if you want another red scare.

Corbyn is legitimately just a democratic socialist. venezuela never actually tried communism as far as I know, but the reasons that it ended up the way it did is actually much more complex than the media would have you believe. It's easy to blame the state of that country entirely on the current regime, but there is also a lot to be seen in it's background, and other figures in opposition to the current regime and foreign involvement. I mentioned this before in another thread. I don't think it's fair to blame socialism entirely when a lot of the problems were already there beforehand to some extent or they were beginning to emerge. If anything, socialism was what was desired as a solution. I'm not going to say the man is innocent or great because he doesn't seem to be, but chances are Corbyn doesn't even know everything that's happened.

More importantly though, I don't think it's fair to judge an entire ideology based on the usual opportunistic dictators that have always existed utilizing many different ideologies. And Corbyn I think is just ignorant at worst. I doubt he'd be the same at all.
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Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155957

File: 1531643179985.png (131.53 KB, 339x293, 7.png)

>>155954
I'm sure far-right guys'd call me far-left, too. That or "jewish shill".
I wouldn't worry too much.

Anyway; it really comes down to who you're fighting. But, if they're going to try to kill themselves, then they're going to die off anyway, so long as you can hold your own.
>>155955
Well, the problem with naziism being a boogeyman is that, it's used by far-left ideologues primarily to shut down anyone right of Stalin. I think this'd pan out pretty well if people had the capability of responding; "No, I'm not! But, you're actually a goddamn communist!".
Personally, I'd rather people drop the left-right dichotomy and start arguing off of principles themselves. Once you start doing that, it's easy to mock guys who'd call you a nazi as know-nothing idiots. Lately, I've taken to telling them "I'm a radical individualist. Literally the furthest thing from a nazi you can get".

Socialism is the same issue as Communism, and it also always ends in failure. Government seizure of property in the name of the "collective' is never productive. Venezuala didn't get any better off thanks to socialism, even if we assume there were equal problems before as people running the streets chasing housecats for a meal.

I think it is entirely fair to judge an ideology based off of the repeated failures and near constant corruption it results in.
Corbyn advocated for the seizure of property, so, I think he's pretty damn well the same. Besides, even if he himself isn't a tyrant type, he'll just be shot by someone who is, as happens every time with communism,.

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155958

>>155957
I think it depends on what property is being seized and why. Considering I've only see him advocate that when it involves helping the homeless, and considering as far as I know he has only advocated empty flats I don't see the major issue. I can certainly see why some people might be unnerved by that but I don't see a huge issue unless I missed or forgot something. Not like it's chasing people out of the homes they're living in and there's a good reason for it.

Neopets (Element of Entropy)!dDE/GESO9Q (ID: fc63bd)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155959

>>155957
I'm not worried about being called anything, as long as i'm not being compared to naziism haha! Sure, I'll let people call me "jewish shill". You can hold your own just make sure to surround yourself with people whom you can trust.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155960

File: 1531643916613.png (58.2 KB, 223x195, 7 (2).PNG)

>>155958
Just as long as you understand I would never move to the UK, I would never invest in the UK, or otherwise purchase property in the UK, where said investment would be at constant threat of government seizure in the name of the "greater good".

It's the reason collectivism always dies.
Because you can justify any horrendous treatment of anyone in the name of the "greater good". It inevitably ends up being exploitative, squeezing whatever it can from those it decides to be justifiable, before moving on to the next one as soon as the first group ends up desolate, dead, or just run off.

Let me put it like this: Would you live with a cannibal, who says if he's ever hungry, he'll eat you?
Sure, as long as he's got food in his fridge, it won't happen. But, if it ever runs out, you're a dead man.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155962

>>155959
Well, that's the trouble, I guess.
Especially with how damaging some of these accusations can be.
People end up ostracized from their communities, fired from their jobs, and forced out, from some accusations.

But, that at least seems to be somewhat rare, and, for the most part, can be counteracted easily enough.

Neopets (Element of Entropy)!dDE/GESO9Q (ID: fc63bd)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155963

File: 1531644377182.png (101.69 KB, 346x346, 1508722954082.png)

>>155962
What's the trouble? This is the only community I'm a part of. I'm more likely to be fired for being too much of a commie than any of that happening since it's so rare.

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155965

File: 1531644506427.png (40.18 KB, 170x286, 8 (2).PNG)

>>155963
Meh. Had someone here threaten to doxx me in an effort to keep me from a job I was hoping for, so, I can't be sure here.
It doesn't seem to take much, in my experience.

But, like I said, it seems pretty rare, and, probably won't do anything, all things considered.

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155966

>>155960
>Just as long as you understand I would never move to the UK, I would never invest in the UK, or otherwise purchase property in the UK

That's fine. I don't think everyone should have to be subjected to the same shit. Would you also feel the same way or similar about the US if Bernie Sanders was president though?

>where said investment would be at constant threat of government seizure in the name of the "greater good".


I don't think that they're going to go overboard with property seizure but if they do then ya I agree it's no good. But if what I said in the last post is all there is to it then I think it could actually be a good thing not just a so called greater good.

>Because you can justify any horrendous treatment of anyone in the name of the "greater good". It inevitably ends up being exploitative, squeezing whatever it can from those it decides to be justifiable, before moving on to the next one as soon as the first group ends up desolate, dead, or just run off.


Sounds sorta like the slippery slope argument tbh. But like I said, if it does end up going beyond that and stuff like that which is relatively inconsequential then there could be a problem. I don't consider myself a socialist or democratic socialist but if a socialist has good ideas then they have good ideas. The only things I've heard from Corbyn so far have been great to questionable but nothing that makes me think he's utterly awful or anything.

>Let me put it like this: Would you live with a cannibal, who says if he's ever hungry, he'll eat you?


I feel like that's a rather different scenario personally. As with any leader, you can wonder if they will take it a mile if you give them an inch. It happens all of the time in the US really. And ya it could happen with Corbyn because who the fuck knows when you can trust a politician but that's the risk you take in general.
This post was edited by its author on .

Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155968

File: 1531645361862.png (26.72 KB, 344x311, 12.png)

>>155966
Well, let me put it like this: If Bernie threatened to steal my property, I'd shoot anyone who came to collect.

> But if what I said in the last post is all there is to it

The problem is, the precedent is set, the value has been shot, and the right to the ownership of property is now thrown in the bin.
So, suddenly, what's the justification for the government not taking my, say, large but lived in house, because another tower or some small city had a disaster?
Why wouldn't the government seize that property? The whole house isn't being used. The people need a home. The standard's been set, so the collective is above the individual when it comes down to rights. So, what moral reason do they have not to seize your property?

>Sounds sorta like the slippery slope argument tbh

Problem is, what people commonly assume to be a "slippery slope" fallacy, isn't. Connecting two items that do not follow, have no connecting principles or issues, or generally any significant relation, is indeed a shit argument.
Connecting a consistent action using the same argument as the initial item, however, is a perfectly reasonable case to make. I can say, for example, "If we let the government regulate speech, they will regulate speech", right? The reason being they're the same items. That's not a slippery slope, obviously. What I am doing here is simply saying; "If we allow the government to seize property in the name of the greater good, the government will seize property in the name of the greater good".
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for the government not to use the same argument as the initial case to justify the seizure of other property. In fact, this seems to set the moral precedent for them to do so. The individual's property right now comes below the collective good.

I have yet to see any good ideas come from collectivists, let alone socialists.
Corbyn seems to be advocating for the removal of western values of individualism, in favour of a failed collectivistic ideal that has resulted in numerous failures, many of which turned out to be quite murderous.

Near as I can tell, it's the same situation. Because, it isn't just Corbyn you are giving the power to. It's the entire government. It's the next people who get power. Corbyn is just stage one. You've got a precedent set, and a value system turned on its head.
Besides that, if you can't trust a politician, why the ever living fuck would you suggest it is a good idea to let them override your basic human rights?
Why would you ever give them that power?
You're now telling me, rather than simply prevent untrustworthy people from violating your rights, we should trust untrustworthy people with said rights, because evidently it's a "risk you take in general".

Neopets (Element of Entropy)!dDE/GESO9Q (ID: fc63bd)Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155970

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>>155965
Oh my, that sounds so petty. I'm glad they didn't really do it.

Goodnight /ef/ keep resisting authoritarianism <3

Anonymous (ID: 4360de)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  155975

>>155968
The main reason I think it would be different with Corbyn is because he would have to operate within a democratic system. Unlike with other countries, it wouldn't be quite as easy to do away with it entirely. I can't say any of that wouldn't end up happening for sure, but I can hope it doesn't should he end up in office for the UK's sake. And really why should anyone be homeless in a first world country? Honestly I think homes should just be a thing people have by default but that will likely never become a reality. But because of the lack of space for property and because of all of the property that has been built means that you may have to do such a thing to do something about homelessness. But I think this just comes down to our perspectives and priorities.

And that's why I only said it sorta sounds like a slippery slope, not it is. But fair. I don't really agree that the possibility of it worsening should always prevent someone from trying for something better though.Cautiousness is a good thing though, sure.

>Besides that, if you can't trust a politician, why the ever living fuck would you suggest it is a good idea to let them override your basic human rights?


We already do that in the US if you ask me. But I think there are ways to do things like this within reason. Like I said, all I've seen him advocate for with property is fairly inconsequential, and really it would probably only effect the rich who can stand to have it happen anyway.

>You're now telling me, rather than simply prevent untrustworthy people from violating your rights, we should trust untrustworthy people with said rights, because evidently it's a "risk you take in general".


No I'm saying that our rights are already taken away anyway.

Regarding the possibility of seizure of property worsening though, I don't know what to say other than to vote them out if that happens. It may happen it may not. But what I can say that I'm not particularly pleased with the system we have. Maybe it would be better if Corbyn was a bit more moderate but what can you do.
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Noonim (ID: ad074f)Country code: mlpchan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 1  155978

File: 1531647124349.jpg (34.05 KB, 480x480, eb5.jpg)

>>155975
Yeah, but the problem is, Corbyn has the power to do it with the same argument, and worse, the next guys to come in have the same argument to do it, and then the next, and so on.
And, so long as you're giving the people free stuff, you can maintain a vote relatively easy.
>And really why should anyone be homeless in a first world country?
I'm not opposed to the idea of homeless shelters, or even necessarily basic homes paid for by the government. But, there's a massive, massive difference between government-funded housing available to everyone, and the government stealing what is yours for someone else.

>I don't really agree that the possibility of it worsening should always prevent someone from trying for something better though.

Nor do I, but that's not what I suggested.
I suggested that we do not abandon basic human rights for a perceived "greater good", as that inevitably justifies the mistreatment of a minority for the sake of the majority.
The concept of individualism works so well because it means every single person within a country is given the same standard of protection. From the poorest worker, to the wealthiest businessman. The businessman can no more exploit the worker than can the worker the businessman, as far as rights are concerned.

>We already do that in the US if you ask me

We shouldn't. There ought to be an outcry every time any politician violates people's rights.
> Like I said, all I've seen him advocate for with property is fairly inconsequential
How is advocating for the seizure of any property inconsequential?
Besides that, would you really say it was "inconsequential" if it was your property, and your investment?
I rather doubt that.
> and really it would probably only effect the rich who can stand to have it happen anyway.
Good job, you drove away your rich, then. Now there's no wealthy class, and so nobody to exploit in order to fund the public with.

>No I'm saying that our rights are already taken away anyway.

Well, then, instead of bending further down for the rod of a corrupt system, why not work to change that shit?

>I don't know what to say other than to vote them out if that happens.

See above for the issue of a raw democracy on these items. Tyranny of the majority, and all that. Easy to guarantee votes off of a promised pile of free stuff. Might shock you, but, the masses are pretty happy to exploit a minority for the sake of their own gain.

Mikie(phone)!GlimDubEqI (ID: b98a45)Country code: us, country type: geoip, valid: 1  156035

>>155921
I never said it was though. I personally don't care for your meme ideologies, dude.

That's fine if you have them but pragmaticly they aren't possible in reality


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