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File: 1510676767799.png (423.46 KB, 668x632, 899879780908.png)

democracy sucks 817573[Last 50 Posts]

im just gonna outright say it

democracy sucks. you just elect another shitty politician who does nothing but water down rights. the fuck is the point? theres always "a new hope!" but that never comes by. it's just another shitty bureaucrat with false promises. now, look im not saying dictatorship is any better, but convince me democracy is worth saving. for fucks sake they required a constitutional amendment to prevent shitty presidents from being elected again. and yes they were shitty

because just voting for another lying political asshole doesnt seem very much inline with liberty
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous 817575

tbh a benevolent dictator is absolutely the best method of government for all but fuck is it rare, unsustainable, and unsound

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817579

!Bags/6aOfg 817586

>>817573
Big issue is first past the post

Anonymous 817590

Well, we don't have any good options then. We either have a monarchy (we know how well that went), a dictator (we all know how that goes), or anarchy (which can work in theory, but could lead to serious harm). So you're kinda running on a thin line here.

And for god's sake, Mike, I can't believe I have to tell you this too: America is NOT A DEMOCRACY. It is a Constitutional Republic. The word democracy is never referenced in the Constitution, Federalist Papers, or Declaration of Independence, and even the Founders feared democracy on the grounds that it would lead to the tyranny of the majority and the rights of the minority being stripped away.



Then again, it's no surprise you hate democracy when your waifu's fuckin commie filth
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous 817591

>>817573
Agreed. However, I do not see another system that could work as well.

My hope is for a nice simple fractured state. More of a mutual alliance, basically, that has one unified army. Everyone can run their countries however they please, in this case 'states', and you've got free travel between the states.

Anonymous 817592

>>817590
When people say "Democracy" they mean "system wherein politicians are elected democratically".
Democracy, full tilt, is of course even more cancerous.

This is like complaining when someone calls America a capitalist nation.

!ScyphTlOY6 817595

>>817591
>army officers mistrusting one another because they're from different states
That sounds like fun.

817596

File: 1510679750623.png (240.13 KB, 383x541, 6546548798989.png)

>>817575
meh, it's just a thought

>>817579
no offense but i saw a link to a "che guevara" t-shirt and irony and mental retardation came to mind so i disregarded it

>>817586
hm?

>>817590
yeah, yeah i know america is a republic. but that doesnt change the fact we've always had elections and you know that

>Then again, it's no surprise you hate democracy when your waifu's fuckin commie filth

again there's episodes past season 5 and you clearly missed the finale. this is like the 100000354945956756959865476th time ive told you this

>>817591
all i ask is for a justification of this

but it just waters down rights imo

Anonymous 817598

>>817595
Everyone's from the same "country", it's just, we all run ourselves however we damn well please.
As for army officers mistrusting one another because they're from different states, we already have that. The scars of the US Civil War still run through, and no southerner actually likes any yankee.
Oh, and we all hate Californians.
>>817596
Justification of what?
The current system's only justification is that it works better than most systems prior to it. We can point to flaws, we can say 'this is bad', but ultimately, we know having a single ruler with absolute power don't work either.

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBU 817599

>>817596
I forgot to change my name back, so those posts were mine. And yeah? My dog has always licked his balls, what's your point?

And yes, I did see the finale to season 6, and I can see how she's good now, but I personally won't let that die that, at a time, she was a commie scumbag that nearly destroyed Equestria just because "muh equality and hurt feelings." Sorry, bro. I hate Starlight even more than I hate Chrysalis, and that's saying something
This post was edited by its author on .

!Bags/6aOfg 817600

>>817596
First past the post voting is why we end up with two choices.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817601

>>817596
Watch the damn thing.
It explains the underlying issue here.

817603

File: 1510680395753.png (387.2 KB, 633x653, 08979800.png)

>>817598
why do we always elect shitty politicians? thats what i wanna know. all they do is increase government power it seems. nothing ever changes

>>817599
honestly dude, i am beginning to lose respect for you for talking shit about my lover tbh

>>817600
you may have cracked the code here really. what frustrates me the most is why we only have two choices. atleast the in other countries they have more leeway here

>>817601
i will later, its 20 mins and not in the mood

Mewtini!LELnin/wow 817606

love too let a cartoon about colorful horses with tattoos on their butts define my political views desu

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBU 817607

>>817603
Alright.., I'm sorry.
I know you like Starlight, but I just had to get that off my chest. I won't talk shit about her again
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous 817611

File: 1510680713433.png (315.2 KB, 945x827, anna_smirk_b.png)

>>817603
Mostly on account of never having better options.
But on top of that, it's due largely to networking and "donations" from large corporations what let one guy spam his lies across the net.
Oh, and of course the media literally lying about people to shut down their campaigns, if they decide they don't fit the standard of the elite.

Also, Starlight is a shit waifu.
But I can't judge too much, since mine is basically a mad scientist.

Anonymous 817612

>>817599
Chrysalis did nothing wrong.
Also, all ponies are scumbag collectivists, so really, any pony waifu is going to be trash.

grimes 817614

tfw you get your politics from a child's cartoon but you dont understand the message it's trying to send to 5 year olds so you can't even do that right

817615

File: 1510680948029.png (123.41 KB, 275x374, 0978969.png)

>>817607
>like
it goes beyond that tbh

>>817611
>talking shit about my waifu
disregarded

Anonymous 817616

>>817615
Anyone with a stripe in their hair is cancer. Also, purple and pink combined looks like shit.
Go back to pinkie pie.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817617

>>817612
>collectivists

<show literally celebrates individual identity, preferences and talents

<but friendship and social connections = the borg

817619

File: 1510681133249.png (594.34 KB, 868x768, 65465465878768679.png)

>>817616
eat shit, graff.

Anonymous 817622

to be fair my waifu is a norwegian girl with skin that is literally as white as a sheet of paper

a good waifu is one that makes you happy and that's that

Anonymous 817623

>>817617
"individual identity" in the show just means the usual trash 'be urself'.
It doesn't mean individualism. They're not one in the same, after all. Where I strike a point against the lot is mostly how they work for 'every pony', and otherwise celebrate 'greater good' shit around the place. Individual tallents and preferences are just a part of how you fit into society, and what role you take. They aren't for you, they're for everyone. You work for the collective benefit, with your own special tallents that you can never escape because it's tatooed on your rump leaving you with only one single life choice or option.
>>817619
Joke's on you, I'm eating eggs right now, which comes out of a chicken's ass, so it could be fairly accurately described as 'shit'.

817625

File: 1510681469675.png (474.4 KB, 611x768, 8678768769.png)

>>817622
>a good waifu is one that makes you happy and that's that
this exactly. it literally triggers me when people say bad things about the one i love dearly

Anonymous 817627

>>817625
Eh, fair enough. I do miss the pinkie, though. Maybe it's because I despise the later seasons to a rather sharp degree.
Truth be told, I know barely anything about SG, as I've only had the heart to watch clips, if that, of such stuff. Last episode I actually watched in full was the Griffonstone lot. Though, I did watch most of the Gabby lot, but I didn't really have the heart to finish it. Just more of the usual stuff what dropped the show for me. No more worldbuilding, just cheesy kids show stuff.

Anonymous 817632

The idea isn't that the people actually have a lick of agency to improve the state of a nation. It's to keep any single individual from holding too much power, even if that means creating a dysfunctional clusterfuck where several powerful people are fighting over the power.

!ScyphTlOY6 817634

>>817627
You picked two exceptionally dumb episodes. Go watch another.

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBU 817647

>>817625
That's why I wanted to apologize, Mike. I might not like your waifu, but that doesn't mean I should talk shit about her.

But if I may ask, why have you come to lover her so much?

Anonymous 817650

>>817634
Others I've watched clips of, and I feel like I get more stimulation from sponge bob than this shit.
I don't know. Maybe it's just the way I look at most media. I'm uninterested, for instance, in the original Star Wars lot. Worldbuilding was empty, boring, just weak.
I need good worldbuilding to be interested. I need a setting that catches the eye, something I can actually imagine, situations I can see, ideas I can consider.
It used to be, MLP had that. They did a good job on their worldbuilding.
Then they threw it out the window for cheap shit.

817655

File: 1510686508773.png (346.02 KB, 467x609, 7657658989.png)

>>817647
because i relate to her on many levels... her and i have so much in common.

i was once a terrible person and i too had the ideas like she once did.

but her and i have tried to become better individuals

i think we'd be perfect for one another and not to mention i find her extremely cute

Elicoor13 817656

>>817573
but we have the right to violently rise up against our government still, mikie. that's better than a lot of non-democratic countries and even some "democratic" ones too. voting is a hopeless process of picking between two bought and paid for models of neo-con/lib on the national level sure, but...what else is there? what else provides citizens with the safeties of things like the bill of rights? what else gives people the opportunity to voice their opinions, because call me a cynic, but i very much doubt that any other system that anyone might bring would allow basically anyone to have an opinion(and i know that very idea is offensive to some but they can all fucking neck themselves; it's america, fuck off with your "some people shouldn't be treated equally" shit).

this might just sound statist as fuck of me, but...there really is no better option, and the "new solutions" people are bringing to the table reek of the early 20th centuries most failed ideologies. we just can't trust anything else.

>>817575
i've never gotten people who think like this. i'm immediately suspect that they're some kind of deep cover russian shill, or they're callous/cucked by statism enough to go "oh well, if the benevolent dictator just does what i like, it's fine if they wage shadow wars, quietly purge useful governmental bodies, imprison countless citizens, remove anyone that they might consider 'undesirable', tax me until i'm penniless, spy on me constantly(oh wait, all governments do this if you have a smartphone) and then act like a god incarnate on television. It's obvious they care, they said they were benevolent."

seriously, who buys into this narrative? if you had any brain in your head, you'd be hearing the warning fucking klaxons about anyone being described as a "benevolent dictator" getting anywhere within a country fucking mile of our nuclear arsenal. someone with unlimited power in the united states could mutually assured destruction everything, is having some unspecified period(that might not ever end) of perceived prosperity(because you could never actually trust official government reports from a self-described dictator, even if things were going decently) really worth it if you know on a bad day on a whim that leader could end the world? i'm fucking sorry, no one has that right, and it's disgusting to think that there are plenty of people in the world that are tacitly fine with that.

i understand where this post is coming from, but oh my fucking god this thread is too statist for me and we all need to remember why every government deserves our distrust. seriously, if you actually think benevolent dictatorship is a good idea at any point tho, wake the fuck up from the childish notion that the government cares about anything other than power.

remember, we live in a fucking nightmare made real.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous 817657

>>817655
Myself, I don't really think I could have a waifu I simply match.
"In common" tends to build a lot of conflict, you ask me.
I prefer someone who holds similar ideals, although that's not entirely necessary, but most importantly, has the same drive. Though, that's more because I can't find myself respecting people without such, to be fair.

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBU 817660

>>817655
Man... I'm sorry, Mike.

I had no idea you related to her so well, I thought she was just a character you just picked. I mean, I personally don't like HER, but I'll respect her just for you; I respect you as an individual, that's for sure.

Anonymous 817662

>>817656
You always have the "right" to violently rise up.
This is something people do not understand about rights.
They cannot be taken away.
They can only be suppressed. But you always have the 'right' to them. Even when suppressed.

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBU 817663

>>817662
After all, the Founders of the US did the exact same thing against Great Britain, and yeah, they took a gamble on their lives, but look at the payoff!

Starshine!Laura/wmXM 817664

>>817622
Winter-chan?

817666

File: 1510687315712.png (495.4 KB, 617x768, 9879879870909098.png)

>>817656
thats reasonable really. i was just playing devils advocate really. i cant entirely think of a better way myself

this is why gun control people enrage me because they wanna water down rights so we cant rise up against tyranny

idk i just been high disappointed our government

its awful if you ask me

>>817660
well thank you, i appreciate that . i dont really pick a waifu. she has meaning to me
This post was edited by its author on .

Elicoor13 817671

>>817662
is it a right when the police force is militarized to the point that it's impossible to fight back? is it still a right when people are being dragged out in the street and getting brutalized/murdered for doing so? when everyone is living in an orwellian hellscape and thoughtcrime is finally introduced, is it still a fucking right? this shit is already happening.

how fucking stupid and blind do you think i am? do you not see the nightmare that stretches before us? or are you really so fucking naively stupid to think that in 20 years we won't all be living in some horror show, because we've been getting there since the fucking...i'll just say 70s because that seems like a nice cut-off.

sorry tho, let me reiterate, soon we won't have the ABILITY to rise up anymore. there, happy?

>>817666
hang em all, i say.

Anonymous 817673

>>817671
Of course it is you daft cunt.
It's just suppressed.
It ain't something the government gives you. It's something that you always have, by default, with or without the government's say. If the government restricts your rights, they're in the wrong here, and you have the right to resist them.

"ability" is the term you're looking for. Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean you can, after all.

817674

File: 1510687681701.jpg (181.36 KB, 690x1156, spinnerette__above_and_beyond_…)

>>817662
Rights only exist if you're willing to take them back when they are taken from you.

People that whine about how rights are universal and cannot be infringed but aren't willing to take them don't understand basic reality. 'Rights' are a human concept. They don't actually exist naturally. They exist because we created them as guidelines and the only reason they persist is because we all continue to agree that they do.

Acting like they exist anywhere outside of civilized society will just make you vulnerable to abuse.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817675

>>817673
Rights do not exist until we conceive of and permit them, and they cease to exist if we either do not permit them or forget about the concept.
Rights did not hang out in some Platonic Aether, waiting to be discovered. Rather, we constructed them because we found that tending towards leaving people's personal business alone and letting the public have a nominal influence in government would give us a more desirable society.

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBU 817676

>>817666
So is that why you transitioned from Pinkie, then? What attracted you to Pinkie before?

Anonymous 817677

>>817674
This is the thing people don't understand, though.
They can't be taken away. They can only be suppressed. Ultimately, you still have the right to it, and you have the right to resist that which suppresses you.

Rights aren't something that cropped up out of nowhere. People who believe rights are something that can be taken away flatly do not understand the concept of rights. They didn't come from nowhere. They came from the concept of self sovereignty. Your life is your life. Nobody else's. The concept of self ownership is the very foundation of rights. And I'd certainly argue they came from a natural origin, as Thog certainly didn't feel bad when he bashed the brains of Krag who tried to kill him, or Urk who refused to let Grok steal his killed beast.

Anonymous 817678

>>817675
See >>817677
You seem to not understand where the concept of rights has come from.
Or more accurately, you seem to've not bothered reading anything on the lot.
Not surprising. Most people these days think it's something taken from the Bill of Rights, and that's the source.

817680

File: 1510688011733.png (307.53 KB, 420x710, 0986789.png)

>>817674
well the thing is about our rights are constitutional amendments which exist according to law

the first 10 are strictly (and shouldnt even be debated) are law that simply tells government what it shouldnt violate

however, due to unfortunate circumstances politicians who think they know what to with thousands of americans tend to ruin life for us in the long run

>>817676
it was different with her. no really feeling outside of
"she parties like me!"

Anonymous 817684

>>817680
Thing is, the constitution is not the origin of rights.
It's simply something we put down, and properly codified to make sure they are not suppressed.

The concept of rights isn't "you always have this you are allowed to do".
The concept of rights is "It is perfectly fine for you to do this, and any system that suppresses your ability to do this is inherently unjust"

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817685

>>817677
>>817678
>>817684

Rights do not come from any nature but human nature; any attempt to find what we do or don't have a right to ultimately comes back to our personal priorities, and heaven forbid when two disagreeing individuals both refer back to the concept of natural rights to support their position.

Anonymous 817686

817688

File: 1510688446053.png (409.38 KB, 579x682, 7768798987.png)

>>817684
yes, i know its based of john locke's ideals that rights are natural unalienable rights

Anonymous 817689

>>817685
Humans have a nature. We can always point to the standard habbit of humans in this regard.
With this, it's more of a "do unto others" type situation. Go to a prisoner, some fuck who's murdered six odd people, and see if he's okay with you stealing his shit.
See if he's okay with not being allowed to defend himself.
Even unsavory people who do not value the rights of others, value their own.

The only exception to this idea I've ever seen is from collectivists, and even they have to employ a strict brainwashing, effectively, to get past natural instinct.

817691

File: 1510688642635.png (70.18 KB, 370x350, smuglight_sparkle_by_comeha-db…)

>>817677
If grog crushes urk's skull with a mammoth femur, urk's right to be alive has been forcefully taken away.

There is no 'suppression' going on. There are no rights involved here. It's one creature defending it's resources from another through combat.

There is no ultimate force that says, "This belongs to you. You have the right to keep it." The only thing that determines what you can and cannot have is what you are willing and capable of defending from someone else trying to take it.

>>817680
The thing is that those laws are established by and enforced by the government they are meant to restrict. I mean they are basically on the honor system at this point because there is literally nothing stopping them from just saying 'Fuck you' and shredding that piece of paper, short of the fact that it would serve absolutely no benefit to do so. It's much more effective to keep people thinking that they are protected and doing shit without telling them instead of openly telling them you are going to fuck them.

Keeping people pacified is a tactic that has been used by government since government was invented, and only the dumbest of leaders try to pacify by force instead of just allowing the population to become complacent.

Anonymous 817695

>>817691
You do not have the right to be alive.
Being "alive" isn't a right.
What you're looking for is the right to live, which is an entirely different matter.

Regardless, you've again failed to understand the premise involved here.
See >>817684

817696

File: 1510688970491.png (706.54 KB, 4028x3900, 1509415885704.png)

>>817695
There is no natural right and wrong. There is no such thing as justice. They are all human concepts we invented.

The universe doesn't care. It has no thought. It is nothing but a quagmire of elements crashing into each other on a regular basis. What is created and destroyed does not matter to it, because the universe works on the system of cause and effect, not good and evil.

Anonymous 817697

>>817695
Incidentally, the right to live is one of Locke's rights, that I'm not entirely sure I'm all that for to be quite honest. I prefer the later two, myself. Though, this is to be fair why I stress "live" over "life". "Live" is a bit more proactive.
My opinion is, the 2nd does not conflict with the first, so long as you leave others the right to "liberty" as it were.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817698

>>817689
Humans often conflict in their needs, and often conflict in their natures.
The mere wish to have something only establishes that one wishes to have something, not that the cosmos mandates that they get it or deserve it.

>>817695
Nobody is claiming the constitution is the source of our rights, rather that our own will to allow certain abilities to others is, and that it is what it all comes down to.

Anonymous 817699

File: 1510689117924.png (81.72 KB, 1294x966, 11267853_596803703756374_88072…)

>>817671

Doesn't matter how "militarized" the police get. They're still a tiny, tiny minority. The only reason any of them make it home each day is because the vast majority of the population is at worst, apathetic to their existence. If even one percent of the population were actively seeking their deaths there would in very short order be no police left because fighting the police is not a matter of defending yourself against a sudden SWAT raid, it's shooting a cop in the back while he' standing in line at McDonald's, it's shooting up and burning cop cars while they sit waiting to catch speeders. It's calling in a robbery in progress and hitting the responders with a roadside bomb. It's targeting their wife and kids at their work or school. It's convincing one cop to report the schedules of his comrades so the same doesn't happen to his kids, it's hanging butchered corpses from a highway overpass or side of building to say "this is a pig-free zone."
It's all the worst parts of a guerrilla war and a civil war rolled into one and fortunately as bad as you think things are or might get, it's still not something most people are willing to contemplate yet. If you think the future is going to look like Judge Dredd, take heart, the judges lost, they lost before the story even started, they only occasionally sally forth from their fortresses to make a token effort at enforcing the law on an otherwise utterly lawless society and few actually survive the effort.

817700

File: 1510689138501.png (302.15 KB, 456x657, 878768769897.png)

>>817691
thats pretty much why the founders fought tooth and nail to keep government as powerless has humanly possible. so they cant abuse power

but if you ask me the anti-federalists were as correct as ever predicted just correctly

they believed government had too much power and i agree. hell, the articles of the confederation was far better in long term

problem is government likes to make knee-jerk choices and create shitty short term results

Anonymous 817701

>>817696
Of course there is.
They may well be human concepts, but I remind you, we are natural beings. We did not come out of the air, dropped down by some aliens experimenting with synthetic nonsense.
You might not believe in a 'good' or 'evil', but there's definitely a standard morality between most all humans. Even if we sometimes disagree on the severity or the justification, we've got a link overall.
>>817698
Again, you misunderstand rights.

The "see" was directed towards the 2nd part, not the first.

Anonymous 817703

>>817699
Judge Dredd is actually a really good example of this. Only reason the judges work at all is because everyone's so apathetic to them. They don't care. So, judges now and again come in and swoop after some crooks.
If people wanted, they could easily get rid of the judges. The judges are a microscopic portion of the population, after all. No matter how well armed they are, they simply don't have the ammo for so much as 1/10000th of their megacity's population. But, the people just don't care for the most part.
So judges come in, and they give the pretense of law and order. Even though, the city still burns, and crime still is rampant.

Works the same way in our cities, honestly.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817704

>>817701
Everything comes from nature in the end, from the worst dictatorship to the happiest hippy commune. Ditto every upholding of a moral code and every violation, and to say that one morality or set of rights and duties is preferred is flatly laughable.

Anonymous 817705

>>817704
Sure. But the concept of rights is damn near universal across humanity. Again, this is a "do unto others" type scope,.
Ask Frank the brutal murderer if it's okay to steal his shit. Ask Frank the brutal murderer if it's okay to try and kill him.

817708

File: 1510689722992.png (249.47 KB, 334x675, 0997989780900908.png)

sometimes i feel like i am reincarted from thomas jefferson lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcWaCsvpikQ

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817709

>>817705
Actually, the modern concept is newer than you would think, and even then it and historical precursors came from humans agreeing to allow other humans a degree of agency.
That said, I should also ask the families of Frank's victims about their rights, or better yet, the survivor from a starvation scenario where he had to let someone die or see him and them both starve.

817710

File: 1510689943375.png (194.06 KB, 1016x786, twilight_sparkle___hugs__by_qu…)

>>817700
>problem is government likes to make knee-jerk choices and create shitty short term results

The only difference between a government official and a civilian is a title we choose to give them and pretend it has weight.

The power they have is based on who is willing to listen to them. There was actually something in Rick and Morty about this. In one episode Rick was trying to escape an alien ship so he hacked into their stock market and set the value of their currency to zero. With their currency being worthless the chain of command completely fell apart because the only reason any of them followed orders was to keep their job, but since their job was worthless now, they suddenly all just gave up because they no longer had a reason to fulfill their duties.

This is how government works. Perceived value of the position. Someone is only in charge of others because we all agree they are. If we all suddenly just stopped agreeing on it, they would have no power at all.

Governments exist purely on the idea that they do, and the belief that their positions actually hold weight. Quite literally, if everyone stopped believing, government would collapse.

>>817701
Again, morality is a human concept. It's a self-preservation mechanism built into the human brain. See, the easiest way to protect yourself from bad shit happening is to get together and agree that no one does the bad shit and if anyone does, they will be punished by the collective. It's much easier and more efficient than actively having to fend off other people every single day all the time. Don't want to be murdered in your sleep? Make everyone agree not to kill each other and set up a punishment for those who don't follow the rule. That is why laws exist. They are specifically just a system of making survival more efficient by negating threats via collective agreement.

Luckily most of these survival mechanisms run on autopilot like your breathing or heart so it's easy to convince people that they just naturally exist since the vast majority are not aware where these feelings come from, they just know they are 'right' so they chalk it up to some mystical universal force.

Anonymous 817711

>>817709
Yes. ANd you know what Frank's victims will say?
They're going to say the same shit. They're going to say it isn't okay to try and kill them. They're going to say it isn't okay to steal their shit.

Anonymous 817712

>>817710
So what if something's human?
Humans are a part of nature. We didn't come from nowhere. We weren't machine-made.

817713

File: 1510690064811.png (125.85 KB, 900x659, twilight_sparkle_vector__by_di…)

>>817712
No. But humans are just animals, like any other animal. There is nothing special about them except the mutation that allows them to be self-aware.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous 817714

>>817713
And?
What's your point?

817715

File: 1510690311937.png (706.54 KB, 4028x3900, 1509415885704.png)

>>817714
My point is that the only reason rights exist for humans and not any other animal is because humans have the ability to extrapolate. They can conceptionalize a system to perform a function and reason an outcome to a degree that most animals cannot.

That is all laws and rights are. A machine designed to facilitate survival. A machine humans created.

Anonymous 817716

>>817715
Except you've already described it as something inherently built in to the human brain in >>817710
So clearly we didn't "create" jack shit.

817718

File: 1510690507523.png (727.71 KB, 1059x730, 87686798987978.png)

>>817710
tbh im getting over this meme

your average person doesnt have power

power is the keyword here

817719

File: 1510690555405.png (136.83 KB, 900x687, twilight_sparkle_seductive_by_…)

>>817716
No. The desire to survive is built into the human brain. It's built into every creature. We are just incredibly effective at minimizing effort while maximizing survival. It's a machine we built in order to fulfill a base function that all other animals also have.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817720

>>817716
The wish for self-preservation belongs to you, not to nature, which has no care either way.
It so happens that we developed social behavior where we value others, this happened due to causality, but it was not 'intended' by causality.

Anonymous 817721

>>817719
>
>>817710
>Again, morality is a human concept. It's a self-preservation mechanism built into the human brain.

If you don't mean something, don't fucking say it.

Anonymous 817722

>>817720
See
>>817721
Toybox clearly stated that morality was the mechanism. Not self preservation. Self preservation was the reason.

This is why it is important to read.

817723

File: 1510690664949.png (130.22 KB, 900x803, twilight_sparkle___that_was_po…)

>>817721
You're grasping at straws here. What I meant is that what we call morality stems from base survival instincts.

817724

File: 1510690818466.png (196.6 KB, 838x954, twilight_sparkle___happy__by_q…)

>>817718
Are you familiar with the story "The Emperor's New Clothes"?

Anonymous 817727

>>817723
I'm grasping at what you fucking said, you right dishonest jackass.
If you mean something else, don't fucking say the opposite in clear english.

You've clearly defined in your prior post that it was a mechanism built in to the human brain.
I agree.
I do not believe you are correct in your new position, that such concepts had to be manufactured. Rather, it seems to me that all humans understand the basic concept of it, regardless of who they are. Near as I can tell, there is a universal standard with humans as to morality, regardless of culture, or location. Some of them do disagree on the stance, justification for something, or general punishment, but there does seem to be a universal understanding of 'right' and 'wrong'.
To me, this suggests, as you had said in your prior post, that there is a basic morality hardwired to every human. It seems to be rather loose at times, but the basics are there.

Snowbell!MbICrazyYs 817729

File: 1510690943942.png (285.43 KB, 2335x2235, 3692__safe_solo_meme_octavia_s…)

>>817718

The idea of democracy is that everyone has an as close to equal as possible share of the power which of course when spread across the entire population amounts to basically nothing.

"Power" is an ephemeral thing anyway,to borrow from Game of Thrones: A king, a priest and a rich man all extol a sellsword to kill the other two. Who gets out alive?

Anonymous 817730

>>817710
Rick and Morty's little "OH ZERO MONEY MEANS THEY ALL COLLAPSE" was completely fucking retarded, though.
The show merely pretends to be smart. Fact is, it's about as "smart" as Big Bang Theory
Which is to say, only for fedora tipping redditors who pretend to be smart.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817731

>>817722
Self-preservation leads to self-defense, valuing others leads to defending others. Nowhere can we derive that morality itself is woven into the universe, merely that we came about into it and attached a name to our values.

817732

File: 1510691014548.png (268.48 KB, 343x619, 76577879.png)

>>817724
the reason i say it's a meme is because governments main responsibility is to govern the people and create laws

thats it and only it

while your average person is either trying to just get by and dont entirely care what the other person does

you elect a moron and that said moron becomes a moron in the position of power

>>817729
why does it always end with a group of morons trying to dictate our lives?

Anonymous 817733

>>817731
Not "the universe" you cancerous wanker.
Humanity.
Just because something's natural for humanity doesn't mean it is a singular constant in the universe.

Do you think having thumbs is a constant woven into the universe?

Anonymous 817734

>>817729
WHich is why it actually does work, on small scales.
Which is also why we need to fracture government. We need as small governments as is possible. Keep everything local. Everything should be on the immediate community.

817737

File: 1510691360245.png (1.15 MB, 4000x3865, angry_twilight_sparkle_by_1ape…)

>>817727
Okay. We're gonna take a break from this discussion to address something here, because I'm getting real tired of your bullshit.

Your entire arguing tactic revolves around waiting until someone says something that you can misconstrue into something else then when they try to correct you, you go 'Ah but that isn't what you said, and if that is not right, that automatically means everything else you said is false. I win.' which is one of the most stupid, childish ways to attempt to win an argument short of calling someone names, which you also do.

So, now that we're past your high school level debate skills, can we continue like actual adults?

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817739

>>817733
This appeared to be what you were arguing.
That said, no universal agreement has ever existed between or even within cultures regarding what actually IS right or wrong.
For that matter humanity makes no discovery of rights and duties, but rather creates or removes them as is felt to be needed or prudent.

Snowbell!MbICrazyYs 817742

File: 1510691679119.jpg (142.37 KB, 1760x826, 183970__safe_glasses_twist_art…)

>>817732

Because there's always some mooks who think they know better than everyone else and are very quick to tell everyone about it. And to be fair a dictatorship can be a very efficient form of government under the right circumstances but if left going on too long it just becomes another mess. What it really comes down to is that any form of government if left alone too long becomes massively bloated, inefficient and worthless. As the saying goes: "There's nothing more permanent than a temporary government agency."

>>817734

Yes.

Anonymous 817744

>>817737
>say something in clear, plain english
>start losing the argumet
>"I mean something else!"
>expect not to be called out on it.

I, too, am getting real tired of your bullshit.
IT seems to revolve entirely around waiting for someone to call you out on something you've stated, and then simply flipping it around, rather than actually standing by anything you've said.
This is what is called "moving the goalpost".
If you mean something else. Fine. I do wish you'd actually say that thing in the first place, though. It's incredibly annoying when someone says something that goes completely against what the'yre saying, and then acts all indignant when you call them out for such.

>>817739
This was not. While I think the rights are natural, that's only in the same way thumbs are natural.
There is a similarity regardless of the culture for what is 'right' or 'wrong'. While the punishments, justifications, and often severity do vary, the foundation is still there.

817745

File: 1510691989286.png (168.84 KB, 899x889, twilight_sparkle_7_by_xpesifei…)

>>817744
Well see sometimes people do this thing where they just assume that others can understand basic concepts without having to elaborate on every single detail, but apparently you have special needs in that regard so I'll try to keep that in consideration in the future, though nobody is perfect.

Except you, obviously, who never makes a mistake ever, apparently.
This post was edited by its author on .

817749

File: 1510692082591.png (503.76 KB, 768x662, 87980909.png)

>>817742
what if someone were to be a dictator, yeah? and you're goal is to simply keep government limited and allow people to have as much as liberty as humanly possible. and part of government that tries to get to powerful gets the firing squad freikorps style

would that be something?

817751

File: 1510692176430.png (235.11 KB, 1810x2019, twilight_sparkle___wut_by_dent…)

>>817749
I don't think that is how dictatorships work.

Anonymous 817752

>>817745
That's how an argument fucking works, you illiterate moron.
You don't just run around with vague nonsense. Or do you expect me to say "Rights are natural" and to just accept a "no" as an argument?
Regardless, that isn't even the fucking problem here.
Your statement >>817710 clearly said
>"Again, morality is a human concept. It's a self-preservation mechanism built into the human brain. "
Unless you're incapable of following basic english, this quite clearly states that morality is a self-preservation mechanism built into the human brain.

I make plenty of mistakes. But at least I'm not a massively dishonest asshound.

817754

File: 1510692252727.png (392.37 KB, 1600x973, Twilight_Sparkle_reading_vecto…)

>>817752
>But at least I'm not a massively dishonest asshound.

Except you are. All the fucking time.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817755

>>817744
I can ask in what way 'natural' is even a meaningful word at such a point, as stated previously, literally everything humans do can be traced back to nature.
The differences can be striking even between contemporary cultures, and even moreso if we look to the past.
A common concept of conduct being desirable or undesirable does not imply an objectivity or independent existence to whatever rights you care to name. That would be a leap from describing a common behavior in human groups to positing a universal phenomena that we can appeal to.
This post was edited by its author on .

817757

File: 1510692439829.png (606.53 KB, 873x768, 897800980.png)

>>817751
it absolutely is

if one person isnt democratically elected and has all the power to control government

then yes, thats how it works

817760

File: 1510693202583.png (218.85 KB, 900x1147, twilight_sparkle_in_panic_by_k…)

>>817757
>A dictatorship in which if anyone gets too powerful they get shot

So is the leader just going to off themselves?

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817761

File: 1510693452101.jpg (157.09 KB, 992x880, spook_shig.jpg)

>>817760
>leaders

817764

File: 1510693671983.png (239.97 KB, 435x483, 787686798987.png)

>>817760
nope, because your duty is solely leave the people alone

which would be all you do

that put down anyone who tries to impede that
This post was edited by its author on .

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBU 817766

>>817764
I can agree with that. The role of government is merely to set laws and keep order. That's pretty much it. Anything else ought to be let alone, because well, government isn't the most competent or speedy at doing other stuff.

One could try to argue for anarcho-capitalism, but the idea of anarchy would essentially be mutated democracy: the tyranny of the majority would impede on the minority, and hell would ensue. That's where government would come in, to PREVENT that.

In this day and age, however, with the SJW's, the tyranny of the minority is starting to take hold with gender pronouns and trans bathrooms. Why? On the grounds that a puny faction of the population wants it. I'm not bashing on people like Toybox, but that's what happening. The SJW's did it in Canada, and now they're trying to do it in the US
This post was edited by its author on .

817788

File: 1510694460452.png (387.2 KB, 633x653, 08979800.png)

>>817766
the problem is they think they're fixing things by passing laws

when in reality they're just ruining lives

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBU 817792

>>817788
Yes! When you're passing laws, you're making it illegal to accidentally call a nonbinary cabbage a he/she, you throw them in jail, giving them a criminal record and just making it hard for them to function as a member of society.

And not just that, you're literally using rules out of the Orwellian handbook to regulate speech and thought, not allowing anyone of dissenting views to say "hey, asshole, you can't fine/jail me just because I don't want some creep dressed like a lady taking a dump next to my daughter." Again, I'm not against actual trans people, but you'd have to be higher than a kite on a windy day to think no criminals wouldn't use this to assault children, another way you can ruin lives with this politically correct, "tolerant" bullshit.

!gEapIYWEa2 817794

File: 1510694859198.png (817.14 KB, 1195x788, princessplatinum4.png)

No matter how good it is, no form of government is gonna work when some people have total, unchecked power over everyone else. Democracy's fine. The problem is the wealth disparity. Fix that, and the system practically fixes itself.

Shuggle :DDDD 817797

>>817792
Love the meme that trans girls shitting next to cis girls results in the fall of western civilization.

817798

File: 1510695364747.png (157.3 KB, 327x362, 09809898987.png)

>>817792
just leave the 1st amendment alone and were good

>>817794
>The problem is the wealth disparity
yeah, id like to get rid of the federal reserve

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817799

>>817792
>Transgenders shouldn't have the right to crap as their gender, because a creep might use the wrong bathroom.
>Any legal system would imprison people for talking rudely.

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBU 817801

>>817798
Thank the lord for the 1st amendment. That's the weak point that led Canada down its path: it has none

>>817794
This
>>817797


>>817799
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna773421

This one isn't Canada, but still relevant:
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2017/july/california-proposes-jail-time-for-using-the-wrong-pronoun-for-senior-transgenders

And keep in mind, private businesses can allow trans people to use which bathroom they choose, but it becomes a problem when the state implements laws about it. The same situation with gay wedding cakes
This post was edited by its author on .

817824

File: 1510697279202.png (194.16 KB, 900x804, western_rarity_by_mixermike622…)

>>817792
I think if you've gotten your name and gender officially changed on public record you should be treated as that gender. Which I think is fair.

I mean some pervert thinking he can throw on a dress and stalk people in the women's room is not going to go through the insanely difficult process of getting his legal name name birth certificate changed, so that kind of plugs up that little loophole right there.

Anonymous 817830

>>817755
True, but in this case I'm going for more of an "instinctual" as it were.

Meisterburg!oRT4jqzTBU 817831

>>817824
That's why I inserted "actual" trans people. If you went through the process, gotten the stuff in your pants changed and the whole nine yards, then it's understandable to let them be treated as such.

I'm talking about those people who claim to be "nonbinary trans toaster kin" who want these laws in place just to have more control over others' lives.
This post was edited by its author on .

Anonymous 817832

>>817831
This is why I like to separate them into "transgender" and "transsexual". One's a genuine medical item, so to speak, the other's a social bit.

Macaroni !RevGiOKgRo 817833

>>817801
>first article
>transgenders are now protected under human rights like several other groups

Where am I supposed to be alarmed?

>second article

>the proposed law is for elderly transgenders and is under criticism

A million worse laws have been proposed and shot down, and even then I fail to see how this is representative of all but the crazy end of the left, or how it implies the exact opposite that denying rights to transgenders is the clear solution.

>>817831
A good deal of transgenders don't have the cash for SRS, and if this is really about the attack helicopters I would think you could differentiate a little better.

Essie 817852

>>817832

they are both genuine terms with different applications


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