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File: 130672083731.png (131.25 KB, 277x337, 130246792285.png)

Trixie thread Rainbow!Dash.YvksECountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2488956[View All]

>I'd like to address my opinion on the trixie episode, as i saw it again recently.

As i saw it, the whole Trixie thing was kind of a misunderstanding. Trixie was never a showoff.

She arrives at this town, promoting her magic show. She says that she's going to perform magic tricks never seen by pony eyes. Of course this was to keep the audience in a mood, as this is a magic show. She wasn't going to say "Um.. i'm going to do some magic i hope you like it".

The main six then start saying that one shouldn't be saying that one is best than the other and that you shouldn't be a showoff when:

1)She isn't being a showoff, she's just using her talents for a purpose (magic shows)
2)She hasn't said that she's better than other ponies.

Then RD starts to boo her and the whole thing starts. Apparently the whole cast got butthurt, because, as you see, the other ponies always seem amused and happy by the show.

So, my point is: Trixie was forced to act in a harsh way by the main cast.
183 posts and 81 image replies omitted. Click View to see all.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489155

Never said she would, just saying that it's futile to say "TRXIE IS UBERPOWERFUL AND WOULD KICK TWILIGHT ASS HURRRR!!!!!!!" because from the episode we didn't get that but going to the other side "TRIXIE SUCKS, SHE CAN MAGIC SHIT HERPPPPPP!!!!" is also as wrong because she clearly has talent on magic, just that she learn what she actually need, flashy spells, after all she is a show pony. Thus, until we get an actual competition, where Twilight and Trixie dunk it out so to speak in their Manehattan state, we can't really make any arguments other than that Twilight was impress by her level of magic and thus she isn't totally incompetent.

Additionally, we have no clue what is trixie cutie mark for, it could mean magic as well as even ponies with similar function (applejack and big mac) have different cutie marks because the cutie marks are also affected by unique things to each pony.

As for your last point, a simple change would be to make Trixie begin the challenging rather than the contrary. Suppose she just went to the crowd and said "you, come up, what your special talent? Cause I can do it better because I'm so great and powerful" humiliates them and then proceed with the main cast booing and all falls into place, trixie becomes an ass, regardless of what has happened on her life.

I think someone made a fanfic about that, elements of discord with trixie as the element of whatever is contrary to magic.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489156

File: 130687823581.png (31.36 KB, 945x945, 130617705753.png)


I'm not saying she is a shock comedian. I'm pointing out an example of an entertainer ( Jim Gaffigan) dealing with a heckler. He made fun of them. He didn't go as far as Trixie, but that's what these people who go out on the road to entertain people have to do. It's practically in the job description.

If you don't understand this, then there is no way for me to get through to you.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489157

File: 130687840230.png (204.66 KB, 900x794, rarity_contemplates_exile_by_t…)


I mean if we want to talk about straws here, that entire post was one big strawman.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489158

File: 130687847653.jpg (56.16 KB, 641x359, Who_Is_So_Ignorant_As_To_Chall…)

> As for your last point, a simple change would be to make Trixie begin the challenging rather than the contrary. Suppose she just went to the crowd and said "you, come up, what your special talent? Cause I can do it better because I'm so great and powerful" humiliates them and then proceed with the main cast booing and all falls into place, trixie becomes an ass, regardless of what has happened on her life.

Arguably, that's exactly what she did in the episode. The mane cast were talking to themselves in the front row, yes, and Rainbow Dash let out a halfhearted, "boo" right before Trixie calls them out, but there's a least a few of things to consider there:

* Proximity. Sure, the mane cast is in the front row, but at a fairly large distance from the stage.

* A good stage magician wouldn't let a few of hecklers provoke them into making those hecklers a part of the act unless it was originally planned.

* Trixie's performance was annoying them, and it's not really suitable to the personality of Rainbow Dash, Rarity, or Applejack to sit there without comment or quietly leave.

These points applying, just how much instigation were the mane cast really doing here?

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489159

Prove it.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489160

File: 130687853560.jpg (27.46 KB, 581x465, 130403970312.jpg)


and another thing:

nopony is saying she is innocent in all this. Good lord why do I have to keep saying this?

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489161

File: 130687874249.png (180.58 KB, 375x310, 129800764826-reaction_two.png)


you said I was implying that Trixie was a shock commedian.

I was not. We all know she is a magician. But you built your ENTIRE argument in that post on something I never said was true. You built a straw man to beat my argument. But all you did was beat up something you made up from a simple youtube post showing an entertainer dealing with the heckler
I mean seriously. Come on.

AndrewCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489162

File: 130687898208.png (34.62 KB, 125x123, 130649220001s.png)


Exactly! We're not saying Trixie = Jim Gaffigan, we're saying that they have very similar jobs and face very similar problems in their execution of their jobs, and the writers could've done a better job of establishing her stereotype of a showboater less deserving of the BotD.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489163

File: 130687901266.png (74.62 KB, 280x280, index12.png)


all of it.

Without them there to say and do what they did, Trixie would have just done a magic act, get paid, and move on.

They created the inertia of the plot. Without their action, there is no reaction from Trixie.

( would have been interesting to see how Pinkie Pie would have done something about it. She probably would have easily shown up Trixie with her physics-bending and then the story would have been maybe 10 mins tops)

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489164

File: 130687909566.png (397.53 KB, 700x700, Jena__Teal_Deer_by_jenasu.png)

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489165

File: 130687913259.png (501.01 KB, 1000x1000, 130376418284.png)

Maybe you should restate exactly what you're looking to prove here. And no, you shouldn't tell me I'm bad at reading, because I'm challenging you to prove that you still have a point to make.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489166

I sense troll..... a good one to boot......

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489167

File: 130687933260.jpg (232.17 KB, 762x779, nope engineer style.jpg)

If I was trolling, I wouldn't be asking to get to the point, I'd be looking to drag it out.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489168

File: 130687940052.jpg (71.22 KB, 500x437, tumblr_liwbsl97yv1qbs4u5o1_500…)


I have already stated my point numerous times. I don't see a reason to restate something you can just scroll up and read again.

Honestly, at this point I feel like I am debating a child. But I'm still going to just love and tolerate even though you're the only Brony on here that has ever made it Nightmare Mode for me.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489169

File: 130687982702.jpg (29.22 KB, 500x500, 130687122576.jpg)


read this.


everything he says are my points.

I'm done.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489170

File: 130687986698.jpg (30.27 KB, 435x493, hearts.jpg)

It occurs to me in hindsight you were referring to him, not me.

Failure to reiterate when requested doesn't exactly elevate you as a pillar of logic and maturity among children. It just reinforces my point that, even if you had stated your point "many times before," I'm pretty sure you lost it along the way, and just don't want to admit it.

"But I'm still going to just love and tolerate even though you're the only Brony on here that has ever made it Nightmare Mode for me!"

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489171

File: 130688015764.jpg (148.86 KB, 1280x720, Rocks.jpg)


my point is several things, all of which have been discussed on this thread already. Read at your leisure.

I'm tired of arguing with people about this. That's the only reason I'm not reiterating my point. Because I have reiterated it and reiterated until I am blue in the face. That does not mean that I lost my point. It just means there are more people on Ponychan than I thought who cannot grasp the obvious. And so I just don't care anymore.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489172

File: 130688027128.png (26.69 KB, 945x945, 1301207269852.png)

> everything he says are my points.

Well, okay, I can sympathize. But if these are the points you've made, do realize that the greater bulk of what's said there isn't exactly a point so much as fan conjecture you support.

AndrewCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489173

File: 130688109692.jpg (149.04 KB, 455x926, 130682001853.jpg)

Amen to that. I'm not sure how much love and tolerance is left in my heart.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489174

File: 130688172446.png (141.39 KB, 640x360, cheerilee admiring her self-po…)

I suppose it's only fair if I reiterate my point since I asked you to.

Personally, I've been advocating the straightforward "as presented in the episode" approach that Trixie was 100% wholly in the wrong because I'm taking into consideration that that was the author's intent, which is sort of important when you're trying to establish what is or isn't canon.

That's just my opinion. The thing is, taken into context we're on /pony/ trying to fill the void of pony until Season 2, I don't want to tell you that you're not allowed to make conjectures.

What I do want to tell you that you shouldn't argue with anyone who disagrees[/b] because fan conjecture is not provable.

Whether or not you're aware of it, you have been. Look up this thread where you pulled the "people who disagree with me are bad readers and/or illogical children" card from time to time.

The reason why I asked you if you had a point was because you can't play those cards unless you have a logically provable point to make. However, as you've indicated your point was fan conjecture, you didn't. So why with the logic card?

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489175

....... wait..... what is whole freaking thread about now?

I thought this was all fan conjecture...... then I read this..... so you guys are seriously considering if Trixie was good or bad?

WerewoofyCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489176

I agree with you on all points but the one about Spike. Granted, he could have just dealt with her bragging and went about his business, but then he wouldn't have been acting either in character or like a dragon. Dragon's are exceedingly arrogant and vain creatures, even the good ones. However, with the good and social ones, this vanity also extends to those they deem worthy of being their friends. A true dragon would not be able to just stand by and allow someone to show off and claim to be better than their friends. A dragon would demand that their friends show up the bragger at their own game (especially considering the fact that his friend, Twilight, was a master of the same game). This is simply dragon philosophy and I've been incredibly impressed with how knowledgeable the writers have been when dealing with obscure mythological facts.
On a side not, it really was RD's fault that things got out of hand, but Trixie must take the blame equally for making things as bad as they got. Trixie was just another RD and the two of them were examples of what happens when an unstoppable force encounters another unstoppable force (however, I found it kind of unbelievable that RD would simply leave things how they ended between herself and Trix; if RD had been acting in character, she would have escalated things even further by rainbow tornadoing Trix or something after Trix physically turned her magic against her, but that could have ended up monopolizing the rest of the episode). However, before this even occurred, I distinctly remember Trixie insulting Twilight (and perhaps the entire community) referring to her as "Little Hay Seed". She sought out a confrontation, making her far more than just some poor innocent performer trying to make a living. I'm wanting to see how she returns in season two to reconcile her mistakes and possibly befriend the main cast.

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489177

File: 130688376569.png (130.3 KB, 431x382, 1300765055632.png)

> so you guys are seriously considering if Trixie was good or bad?

Maybe some people are, but I think the greater bulk are thinking more along the lines of how much of Trixie's arrogance during her performance was just striking back at the mane cast's behavior?

That's a good question. I'd like to see an Equestria Daily poll on it that looks like this:

A) It was all Trixie.
B) About 75/25 Trixie/Mane Cast
C) They were both roughly equally at blame.
D) About 25/75 Trixie/Mane Cast
E) It was all the mane cast's fault for provoking Trixie.

I'm betting the greater amount of votes will be at the top of the poll, towards Trixie blame, because that was the intent of the story.

However, for those who vote lower, I respect their opinion, and I really can't disprove them, per se. At most, I probably point out parts of the episode that might weaken their position because the author's intent would have showed in little touches throughout the episode, but I couldn't establish that it was logically impossible.

But ultimately, the most important thing to remember is this: If it's a thread about fan conjecture and you're taking up every one out of four posts, maybe you should back off a bit, you're smothering your fellow bronies with your opinion.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489178

Considering fanon as is, I don't think you would be right, for example I believe D and see the creators attempt as a feeble one, if they wanted me to dislike trixie for being boastful there are better ways to establish she is just being obnoxious and wrong rather than just feeling insulted by a group of random ponies which try to ruined her ability to make a living.

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489179

File: 130688492830.png (231.3 KB, 625x333, AaaAaAAh!.png)

that the defense of trixie is based on the idea she is a show pony can be seen as conjecture. Personally, I don't really see who else would live in a travelling cart that unfolded into a showstage with prepared fireworks but stilll valid.

the most well-crafted rebuttal is that we are 'supposed' to vilify trixie leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Dismissing actions to one group and magnifiying others due to percieved "who's supposed to be at fault" is a kind of sheep-like, unobjective method of evaluating a situation that's dangerous if applied in general. The luxury of guessing what the writer meant by the episode isn't a method we can use outside of this context, and for that reason I discard the premise. Besides, for all we know, the portrayal we see, for all its flaws, was the writer's exact intent.


TL/DR? Seriously guys, we've been here and back again like five times now in this thread alone.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489180

Cause we can.
And I am quite certain there will be no more post after this one.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489181

File: 130688570572.gif (201.06 KB, 438x294, 130030698665.gif)

I'm gonna post just to spite you.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489182

File: 130688665095.png (15.68 KB, 174x174, 1302918613350.png)

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489183

File: 130688849905.png (145.67 KB, 469x267, fluttershystare.png)


Last post I am making in this thread because you are being civil. This is my last say in the matter. After this, I will not post in this thread again.

Everything I have said goes like this:

Whether the Author's intent was to make Trixie the "bad guy or not", he did a poor job of doing it. The facts that are not fan conjecture do not support Trixie as a full-on antagonist and actually make the mane cast no better.

What results is a story with a confusing message. It's okay to insult people who are trying to entertain others and embellishing to advertise their expertise. And if that person is homeless, you don't offer to take them in and you throw their possessions in the trash.

The plot centers around the single Ursa Major boast, pretty much the McGuffin. But if that boast had not happened, the mane five had kept their mouths shut and let people enjoy a show that only comes to a small town every once in a while (because it's displayed on a traveling wagon), and Snips and Snails had not gotten the Ursa Minor, none of it would have really mattered. Trixie could have done her show, embellished about the Ursa Major to sell herself and her skill, made her money, and move on. Instead a conflict was created and instigated by the mane 5. They called Trixie out for no real reason. "OMG someone is trying to advertise their skills and bending the truth. We must get bitchy and put her in her place." This makes the mane 5, in this instance, the Mean Girls of Ponyville. They are no less innocent than Trixie is. They heckled an entertainer, gossiping about her in the front row to her face. I'm pretty sure gossiping is considered wrong in most cultures.

So here's how it went. These are facts, not your so-called fan conjecture (and you talk about me pulling cards out).

Trixie is an entertainer.

Trixie has to make money because she lives in a wagon, goes town to town, and has to eat.

Kids come up, heckle entertainer, ruin show for everyone else. All the other ponies are too polite to point this out. In our world, people would have shouted them down and told them to stfu "We're trying to enjoy the show, idiots. Go away and bitch somewhere else." Or a hired bouncer would have gotten rid of them if Trixie could afford that (which she obviously can’t. She obviously doesn’t even have a real house and most likely lives hoof to mouth) But nopony did that because ponies simply do not have it in their nature.

Trixie feels threatened. She has to make money using her natural talents given by her cutie mark. The mane 5 are actually hampering her from doing the job the universe appointed her to. Think about that. What would you think of a pony that burned all of Twilight's books and the library and said gtfo? Or maybe somepony goes into Rarity's shop and tears up all her dresses, ruins her tools ect. Maybe somepony purposely releases a parasite to kill all of Applejack's apple trees. How about somepony purposely sends a hungry manticore into Fluttershy's tree to eat her animals and wreck her house. Or maybe somepony decides Rainbow Dash's just mouths off about how great she is all the time and breaks her wing on purpose in a fit of anger. And let’s not forget how wronged Pinkie Pie felt when she believed her friends did not want to go to her parties, which just so happens to be her speciality. Yeah.

So Trixie goes a little overboard because the Mane 5 have gone extreme in their heckling , which was bad. She loses her temper, which was also bad. She is so caught up in her stage persona and anger that she does not stop to say " Excuse me, I'm trying to do a show here. Go somewhere else if you don't like it. I'm trying to entertain some ponies here." She has a big ego as most entertainers do. Maybe she really does believe she’s the most “magical” pony in Equestria. The word magical could be taken two ways. It could mean she is saying she has magic like Twilight (which we know is not true) or it could be her magic tricks. Hmm let’s see…. Her name is Trixie. She has a wand on her flank. She is obviously a showpony. Which do you think it is? I’m pretty sure she meant her magic tricks.

No, the real lesson in this episode is that Trixie loses her temper because someone mocked her instead of handling it in a mature way such as what I stated above. So she humiliates her hecklers in the most vile way possible. This was not right for her to do. She is not innocent either.

Twilight is scared about her friends thinking she is like the strange new mare from out of town who thinks she's all that so she bugs out, blah blah blah. We're seeing the story from their point of view, so of course it will favor them.

Mane 5 are pissed because Trixie made short order of them after they heckled her. " How dare she do that to us? What a bitch!" when, in fact, the mane 5 brought it on themselves for doing something nopony who believes in friendship and harmony should be doing. What part of harmony is insults and business obstruction? I'd love to know.

However, this point is swept right under the rug and never addressed. " Princess Celestia, I learned today that it's okay to ruin a pony's day if they are a strange pony from out of town and they dare to say they are better than anyone else at their craft for the purpose of putting on a show." The author made the situation far more complex than black and white. You are meant to hate Trixie. And that's fine. She lied to boost her image. She's the "supposed" antagonist set up against the mane 5 by the author. If you do "hate" her, then he did his job well assassinating her character while completely ignoring the wrongdoing of the mane 5. Like I said, congratulations, you've been brainwashed. Great job you did there, letting someone lead you by the nose to believe a character is the black against the white in a shades-of-grey situation.

If you reverse the story and tell it from Trixie's perspective, it makes Trixie a sympathetic and tragic character who lost her temper because of her pride (which by the way, Rarity, Applejack, and Rainbow Dash did as well but that is also shoved under the rug) and got caught up in a disaster that rendered her homeless, made her lose all of her possessions, and made it much more difficult for her to continue her cutie mark calling (which should be noted, drives ponies nucking futs, and further multiplies the damage they have done to her). The Mane 5 come off as stuck up upstarts ruining a show someone is trying to perform. They, along with Snips and Snails, have ruined her life. Completely. For no other reason than that she was embellishing a little to do her job so that she can make money so she can put food in her mouth and go to the next town.

And yet this is shown as okay. This is fine in the author's mind. All this is ignored and shoved under the rug because, frankly, the main characters only matter. They're allowed to make asses of themselves at a show and children are taught that that it is to be okay to be malicious. Someone comes in out of town who is strange and says they're good at something " OMG we need to put so-and-so in their place because we're the ones who are the shit around here. We're going to give them their comeuppance." It’s ridiculous how this part of their behavior is completely ignored.

You can say whatever you want about "fan conjecture" or whatever. I don't care because I've proven without a shadow of a doubt that the story is a muddled shades of grey trying to pretend to be black and white which was my whole “POINT” along. And people who can't think for themselves buy into this half-baked garbage of a story and convince themselves that the point of view that they were shown is the only right one.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489184

File: 130688855010.png (145.67 KB, 469x267, fluttershystare.png)


None of these things I have stated are opinions or conjectures, they are simple facts that can be gathered from the very situation as it unfolded in front of our eyes if you are open-minded enough. Nobody has proven these facts wrong in this thread. In fact, a lot of ponies went out of their way to dance around the idea that the mane five might not be the little angels in this situation we're supposed to buy into. It ruins and warps their world view so it is anathema and must be extinguished.

My view may be unpopular and you may very well believe that in your opinion I am completely wrong. But not everything that is right is popular and not everything that is popular is right.

Think honestly about what I have stated here. Approach it with an open-mind. Observe the situation from other angles like an adult is supposed to do. Consider all the facts and put them in perspective. Contemplate alternative views on the matter and follow them to their conclusions. See the Forest and not the Trees.

That's the last I have to say on the matter. Continue flogging each other over it. I won't be here to give a pile of manure.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489185

I know you already said you weren't going to respond any more, but... well you were just plain wrong on several points.

You talk about having no conjecture, but so much of your post was stuff that never happened on the screen or could be directly inferred to occur from the episode's events.

I'm sorry to be one of the people who has to keep bringing you back, but I honestly believe you need to rewatch the episode more carefully.

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489186

File: 130689083266.jpg (33.65 KB, 450x355, oh-the-huge-manatee.jpg)

no one is ever letting this go, I'm guessing. lol.

Sigh AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489187

File: 130689206660.jpg (137.38 KB, 719x935, Our-Discussion.jpg)

I come here looking for overnalysis threads and find this.......
Overnanalysis requires a ceartain distancing from the character, a little insight into many small details to make out any details from.... well.... anything.

This whole thread has been a constant re-interpetration about the same facts seen from different lights. What does that tell you? That the discussion has reached a dead point and repeating them over and over again will do nothing.

Whoever is the anon, you are wrong to simply say "authors had a certain intent, lets just believe that" because overnalysis doesn't work that way. At the end of the day the intent of any person is irrelevant as to how the final results should be perceived, if he did a good job it would be self-evident, otherwise we are left with doubts and thus make up our own to our desire. And that's the crux, to our desire. Coming here to do what you have done fulfill nothing of the above, you appear to do it for the whole sake of getting on a pedestal. Please don't do it.

As for Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpM please refer to the picture, it helps. Don't take this the wrong way but you are being a bit stubborn about the whole thing, mainly because by this point you should have yielded the fact his explanation is just as possible because we lack any canon to prove it either way. You have a theory you like better and others support you, good, but unless you are willing to let yourself be actually interested in another's person argument then why do this to begin with.

As for the actual discussion, amidst all the bickering good points were made, even if some of my ideas were taken and then posted here without letting me know.....

Now don't go hating, I'm just point out a couple of things. Or do hate, but center upon me rather than each other with this silly discussion. Love and tolerance or something like that is your motto right? Do that or something.

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489188

File: 130689259781.jpg (162.66 KB, 660x600, 1302261137-97.jpg)

I have canon to support meh now. All arguments are invalid.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489189

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This was the only response that came to me for that.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489190

File: 130689346051.gif (238.25 KB, 500x281, 130576574299.gif)

Well shoot, looks like this thread's done. See y'all later.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489191

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Here I go going back on my promise to leave the thread *facehoof*. I must be a glutton for punishment.

You think I'm being stubborn. I understand that. I have been sticking to my guns ( although I have conceded many points in this thread, but I don't blame you if you don't want to search them out). I believe my view is validated by many facts, some of which MAYBE might be fan conjecture but are grounded in an analysis of the situation. See? I already conceded that.

Fan conjecture is what this board is for, so arguing that I can't use well-founded fan conjecture based on logic to back up my position is like telling a fish they cannot use water to swim. Perhaps that annoyed me a little. We can all be emotional creatures at some point and it can get the best of us sometimes.

I really can see the other interpretations and how they would make sense to people. I REALLY want someone to prove to me that my view is wrong. I would be open to it. So far, I haven't seen it. Here and there, I let some of my argument go.

But for the most part I have not seen much of a compelling argument that says my objective view of this situation as shades-of-grey is wrong. If someone could produce it, I would be glad to change my opinion because that would be intellectually honest and I hold myself to high standards as much as I can, given that we can all be blind about ourselves at times.

I am not arguing for the mane 5 obviously, or for Trixie for that matter. I am arguing for an objective perspective where not everything is black and white in this story. That's all.

I appreciate that you at least acknowledge my points. Maybe I have gone overboard in this thread, but I just feel passionate about this objective perspective. Please do not mistake my passion for anger or dismissal of other views.

In my opinion, I did not break any of the 4 rules in your picture but if I have, I would be open to a lesson in how I have done so.

I feel I have been trying to argue my point in as civil a manner as possible under the circumstances. Very few people were willing to see the "third option" . Some wanted to see it from the mane cast. Some wanted to see it from Trixie. I was dismissed by almost everyone but expected to respect and see their point of view. You can imagine how that would make me feel, I hope.

Anyway, I'll check in the morning (10 pm here) to see what you have posted in response, if anything. To everyone else, I really am open to changing my mind if you can with something that makes sense.
I'm not a total mule. I just felt backed up into a corner.

So... sorry. For what it's worth. Love and Tolerance.

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489193

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Brony, when you're 59 posts in a 221 post thread, and have come back the second or third time after you said you wouldn't, you might want to consider if this is evidence that you're a little too emotionally invested to be logically flawless.

You want to talk about being unable to see shades of gray - well, it's been my experience that most Internet forum arguments are everybody agreeing but nobody noticing that they're in agreement. With the exception of the rare radical, I think most of us would agree upon the following:

* Trixie was not an innocent, she was the antagonist.
* Rarity, Applejack, and Rainbow Dash are not acting as politely as one should during a performance and that can be seen as instigation.

So, if we agree on this, what are we arguing about? Which shade of grey we think is the most appropriate. That's going to come down to individual opinion, and I'm fine with that.

Now, I don't mind fan conjecture. It's fun to spin, "what if the Trixie was a lot more innocent than she was portayed in the episode?" I would read that fanfic and maybe even enjoy it if it's well written. However, I wouldn't confuse that for canon, as there's really nothing solid in the episode to base that on other than a 32-second (2:44-3:20) exchange that was intended to explain to the viewer the basis of the moral.

Consequently, your error is this: this can't be an argument because you can't argue fan conjecture is canon without looking like you need to go back and watch the episode again.

Lets say there was an episode in the second season where it turns out the mane cast was wrong about Trixie in boast busters. It would become canon. However, this would carry a heavy cost: the viewer's not going to be able to take their morals seriously ever again, because all of a sudden Boast Busters is one big tragedy. Consequently, it's not likely the developers would do this.

Granted, if the developer reads this, agrees, and suddenly MLP:FIM Season 2 is 23 episodes instead of 24, I'm going to regret every word.

Corn-Pone!71l1sViydECountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489195

File: 130690788892.gif (1.84 MB, 381x421, 129947504958.gif)

Hey guys, what's--

AndrewCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489196

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But I DON'T agree, she was not the antagonist. She was meant to be, but given how poorly this intent was written, I don't believe she was being antagonistic. I can admit my point of view may be wrong, just like some of you reasonable ponies can, but the fact of the matter is none of us can prove each other wrong, and, given our obviously strong stances on both sides of the fence, along with the circumstantial and implied points we're providing, there is slim to no chance any of us will feel a different way at the end of the thread. Thus, I believe it's time for us to /abandon.

Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489197

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For the record, and to be as clear and concise as possible I think the Heckling three and Trixie are equally to blame for the show performance, and all come off as antagonistic.

As for you, if you're abandoning why IN LUNA'S NAME DIDN'T YOU SAGE?!?!?

... We're never getting rid of this thread ... *sob*

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489198

Well...... you could ask Rainbow to erased it..... but where would the fun be on that?

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489199

File: 130693396425.jpg (22.07 KB, 400x300, 130377973937.jpg)


Fine, we're in agreement. You should have stated this earlier. No one else has.

But the reason I was 59 posts (except for a few extraneous ones) was because I was defending my views against those disagreeing with me (and some were a little rude) so if someone is calling you out on your argument, it is only natural you'd have to keep posting to defend your views. If you don't think I have that right then I don't know why we have an image board in the first place. The Mods haven't put me in my place. Who knows, maybe they don't event mind because I am still encouraging discussion on a controversial issue.

I am the opposing view most of the people on here did not agree with. So is the OP. Who will argue for the OP's position (which is my position all along, only modified)?

Everybody who has disagreed with me has been using the logical fallacy, False Dilemma (two choices are given when in fact there are three options )

Perhaps, you would say, I am using the Untestability Fallacy(The theory which explains cannot be tested) which is why you have been attacking my argument with the idea that I am only using Fan Conjecture , to which I would counter the entire Pony board uses the Untestability Fallacy, even LOGOS who gave some very impressive analysises of the universe of the show. This entire board is one big Untestable Fallacy.

Look, you can't come on here and tell me I can't use fan conjecture that is well-founded on what we can infer on a FAN CONJECTURE FORUM, and not look a little silly. With all due respect, I think you're in the wrong forum if you really believe this.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489200


I agree. This discussion is useless at this point.

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489201

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Discostew!WD8ismIRl6Country code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489202

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Trixie may be the boastful jerk some claim her to be. Trixie may just be misunderstood that others claim. In either case, I would love to see her make a return where we can see more of her personality, as one episode doesn't seem to be enough. Many of the opinions here, imo, are from analysis based on how each person perceives the single episode in relation to their own lives and experiences, as many people, both for and against, are making good points here.

If she returns, and was shown as a pony who, if she was acting like a jerk before, regrets what she's done, then a moral for the episode could be about forgetting the past mistakes and accepting them for who they have become, not who they were. If she wasn't a jerk, and the mane cast were at fault, then perhaps the moral could be about not being so judgmental when you only look at a person skin-deep.

Rainbow!Dash.YvksECountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2489203

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archived, baby

AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2492041


AnonymousCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2513695


Rainbow!Dash.AtShoCountry code: ponychan.png, country type: customflag, valid: 2513730

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